back in the hobby and looking for advice

[planter]

Hi everyone, I just started a new aquarium back in the beginning of January after a 5 year absence from the hobby. I've only ever kept freshwater tanks. I’ve kept mainly dwarf cichlids, african cichlids, several kinds of tetras, angel fish and yes even discus. I picked up a 55 gallon tank (36x18x20H) Right now it’s a planted tank that is co2 injected. The tank is lightly stocked with fish and the main focus of the tank for the next several months will be allowing the plants to grow out, and allowing the tank itself mature and stabilize.
When I had my discus I bought them at the 3.5” mark and kept them in a 50 gallon tank. I kept nothing else with them and had a very small amount of gravel. There were no other tank mates in the tank as the goal was to grow them out in that tank. I fed them mainly live blackworms but they were fed other foods as well like frozen bloodworms, hikari pellets and other foods I just can’t remember them exactly what anymore. I managed to grow them out into nice healthy fish with daily feedings and multiple weekly water changes. Unfortunately I had to part with them (actually all my fish) about 5 years ago due to where I was moving and other factors.

As mentioned above I have a new tank that I started up in the beginning of January and the goal of this tank is to have a planted display tank ideally with 5-6 discus with perhaps a few other fish. I am using a soil designed for planted tanks called netlea aquasoil. It’s co2 injected and I do add fertilizers to the water column. I perform a weekly 50% waterchange sometimes I do 2 WC’s a week. It’s planted now and filling in I do have rock in the tank which I plan on removing if and when I introduce discus to the tank. The water I use is just tap water straight from the tap

For filtration I am currently running the tank with 2 ehiem 2213 filters. I normally over filter like crazy and I never run a tank with just one filter. I intend to add another filter a like an aquaclear 30 if and when I added discus as I feel with the warmer temperatures the fish could use more o2 in the water column.

Here are my current water parameters

- temp 76

- tank ph 6.8 (lower PH due to co2 injection)

- Ph of the water straight out of your tap 7.6

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 15 – 20ppm (dosing nitrate for plants)

- well water no

- municipal water yes
- KH 4-5

My goal or endgame for this display tank is to have a densely planted display tank ideally with discus the goal for the upcoming months will be to stabilize the tank allowing the time that is needed to let the system mature. I’m a strong believer in managing the system and in turn if all is right your tank or environment will take care of the fish. If discus are in the cards I will need to start to acclimatize the plants to the higher temperatures. I may lose some plants in the process or have to use other species but I am prepared to make those adjustments if needed. That process will take several weeks or months. As far as other fish are concerned those are a secondary concern to me as while I feel it would be nice to keep other species the discus will be the stars of the show. The fish that are stoked in there now will be moved out to another tank or be donated to a LFC.
Now the questions I have before moving forward
1. is a 20”H tank tall enough?
2. will I need a lid? I currently do not have one and prefer not to have one. It’s more work keeping it clean to allow the light to get to the plants. I have never seen a discus jump before but maybe you have.
3. Ideally I was thinking of 5-6 discus as I know they are happy in larger groups. Is my tank space a water volume sufficient for a group this size?
4. what would be the minimum size fish I should by to keep the water changes and heavy feedings down to a minimum? I feed daily and perform a weekly 50% (sometimes a little more) WC. I was think a 5” fish would be sufficient but I’ll let the pros chime in.

Oh and before I forget here is a picture of the tank today in case anyone is curious.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/filipem1/fish/061DDA6F-2817-492B-9EE8-8E64BEA941EF_zps3fm8ta0c.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/filipem1/media/fish/061DDA6F-2817-492B-9EE8-8E64BEA941EF_zps3fm8ta0c.jpg.html)

[FishFanMan]

You should crank up the temp to 82 in that tank and see if they survive because that's what it should be once discus goes in. And at 82, you should inject O2!

[planter]

Thanks for the reply I know about the temp. I mentioned that on my orginal post. Inject O2? Why in the world would I attempt to do that? Good surface agitation should be sufficient for the fish and plants. I wouldn't even know how to inject O2. I've never heard of anyone doing this.

[Filip]

Hi everyone, I just started a new aquarium back in the beginning of January after a 5 year absence from the hobby. I've only ever kept freshwater tanks. I’ve kept mainly dwarf cichlids, african cichlids, several kinds of tetras, angel fish and yes even discus. I picked up a 55 gallon tank (36x18x20H) Right now it’s a planted tank that is co2 injected. The tank is lightly stocked with fish and the main focus of the tank for the next several months will be allowing the plants to grow out, and allowing the tank itself mature and stabilize.
When I had my discus I bought them at the 3.5” mark and kept them in a 50 gallon tank. I kept nothing else with them and had a very small amount of gravel. There were no other tank mates in the tank as the goal was to grow them out in that tank. I fed them mainly live blackworms but they were fed other foods as well like frozen bloodworms, hikari pellets and other foods I just can’t remember them exactly what anymore. I managed to grow them out into nice healthy fish with daily feedings and multiple weekly water changes. Unfortunately I had to part with them (actually all my fish) about 5 years ago due to where I was moving and other factors.

As mentioned above I have a new tank that I started up in the beginning of January and the goal of this tank is to have a planted display tank ideally with 5-6 discus with perhaps a few other fish. I am using a soil designed for planted tanks called netlea aquasoil. It’s co2 injected and I do add fertilizers to the water column. I perform a weekly 50% waterchange sometimes I do 2 WC’s a week. It’s planted now and filling in I do have rock in the tank which I plan on removing if and when I introduce discus to the tank. The water I use is just tap water straight from the tap

For filtration I am currently running the tank with 2 ehiem 2213 filters. I normally over filter like crazy and I never run a tank with just one filter. I intend to add another filter a like an aquaclear 30 if and when I added discus as I feel with the warmer temperatures the fish could use more o2 in the water column.

Here are my current water parameters

- temp 76

- tank ph 6.8 (lower PH due to co2 injection)

- Ph of the water straight out of your tap 7.6

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 15 – 20ppm (dosing nitrate for plants)

- well water no

- municipal water yes
- KH 4-5

My goal or endgame for this display tank is to have a densely planted display tank ideally with discus the goal for the upcoming months will be to stabilize the tank allowing the time that is needed to let the system mature. I’m a strong believer in managing the system and in turn if all is right your tank or environment will take care of the fish. If discus are in the cards I will need to start to acclimatize the plants to the higher temperatures. I may lose some plants in the process or have to use other species but I am prepared to make those adjustments if needed. That process will take several weeks or months. As far as other fish are concerned those are a secondary concern to me as while I feel it would be nice to keep other species the discus will be the stars of the show. The fish that are stoked in there now will be moved out to another tank or be donated to a LFC.
Now the questions I have before moving forward
1. is a 20”H tank tall enough?
2. will I need a lid? I currently do not have one and prefer not to have one. It’s more work keeping it clean to allow the light to get to the plants. I have never seen a discus jump before but maybe you have.
3. Ideally I was thinking of 5-6 discus as I know they are happy in larger groups. Is my tank space a water volume sufficient for a group this size?
4. what would be the minimum size fish I should by to keep the water changes and heavy feedings down to a minimum? I feed daily and perform a weekly 50% (sometimes a little more) WC. I was think a 5” fish would be sufficient but I’ll let the pros chime in.

Oh and before I forget here is a picture of the tank today in case anyone is curious.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/filipem1/fish/061DDA6F-2817-492B-9EE8-8E64BEA941EF_zps3fm8ta0c.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/filipem1/media/fish/061DDA6F-2817-492B-9EE8-8E64BEA941EF_zps3fm8ta0c.jpg.html)

Hi Planter and welcome to SD forum .Here are some of my thoughts on your questions.

1.Yes it will do it. Discus are more concerned with tank length.

2. Many people here reported jumpers and dead discus by their tanks , so i would sure put a glass lid on it.

3. 5-6 is a minimal adviced number to keep discus happy and secure and also to alleviate the agression issues.

Your tank is smallest allowed volume and size for keeping 5-6 discus.So being on a borderline here you would have to take extra precautions to keep water quallity under control. Im quite doubtfull that you can succseed that with only 1-2 50% WC weekly , but if you are dead set on this WC regime go ahead and try your luck , your discus will surely tell you weather you can do it or not .

4. Buy the largest group that you can afford. >5 inch would be good . By doing this you increase your chance of sucsess as grown ups are much more forgiving for a bad water quallity and have well developed immune systems , as oppposed to juvies.

And lastly . Leave a 10 inch empty unplanted part of your front bottom carpet for a feeding/ pooping place , otherwise the food will get stuck in carpet and rot there.

Good luck.

[Kyla]

i think he meant CO2

u can go lidless if u are aware there is a danger of losing a fish. i had an open top 80gal and never lost a discus, although i did lose a few other fish over the years and i have heard of discus jumping i encouraged the growth of watersprite and duckweed to discourage jumping.

a 55gal seems a bit small esp when planted. ppl do it tho. i dont have a lot of advice just because i wouldnt recommend ur set up but u have kept them before so u prob know the risks. make sure u clean the canisters regularly to remove the debris. do as many wc as u can. pick up some freeze fried black worms for feeding. a backing on the tank may make the new discus feel more secure.

[planter]

Great pointers guys thank you. I'm not dead set on one WC that's just what I'm doing now. I'd be fine doing 2 or 3 water changes a week. It's actually better for the plants to do more frequent water changes. As far as the co2 is concerned it's left on during the day and shut off at night. With the increased temperatures that discus need I would be inclined to add a HOB filter or at the very least run an airstone at night as I'm well aware warmer water holds less O2 and CO2 for that matter.

Before I do anything the tank needs to mature. That's going to take months the temperature also needs to be raised slowly over time and I need to slowly start moving the that are in there out. fish out as the temps go up. That will give me time to find a good source to buy discus and the lid.

[briztoon]

Highly recommend you watch this video. There is a section about discus and planted tanks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VXe3VKh7qF8&t=196

[Akili]

Hi Planter and welcome to SimplyDiscus.One thing about Discus is that once you have kept them,no matter how times you walk away one always returns to them.

[planter]

Highly recommend you watch this video. There is a section about discus and planted tanks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VXe3VKh7qF8&t=196

I opened the link. I didn't expect a 2 hour video. I will definitely look at it when I have some time


Hi Planter and welcome to SimplyDiscus.One thing about Discus is that once you have kept them,no matter how times you walk away one always returns to them.

I find aquariums in general are that way. I've had the itch i start up a tank again for about a year. Things are easier now with my schedule so now is the right time.

[briztoon]

I opened the link. I didn't expect a 2 hour video. I will definitely look at it when I have some time



I find aquariums in general are that way. I've had the itch i start up a tank again for about a year. Things are easier now with my schedule so now is the right time.

A bit over an hour. You can listen to it, rather than just watching it. You could listen while driving to work, or when doing chores, what ever works.

I listen to it at least once a week while I'm doing water changes and tank cleans.

[planter]

I'm doing a water change tomorrow great suggestion to listen to it while doing it I think i will do just that.

[Kyla]

the reason i ask about wc is because the easier you make this task the more often u will be able to perform wc. others may have suggestions to improve the efficiency etc

its a great vid. i also watched it while doing tank maintenance. it was nice, felt like having company while working on the tank which is often a lonely task :)

[planter]

the reason i ask about wc is because the easier you make this task the more often u will be able to perform wc. others may have suggestions to improve the efficiency etc

its a great vid. i also watched it while doing tank maintenance. it was nice, felt like having company while working on the tank which is often a lonely task :)

I spend about an hour and a half doing water changes. When I do a water change I usually prune the plants and that takes more time than anything else. I enjoy doing Waterchanges as its one of the few things where everyone leaves me alone to do my own thing. I usually do it with the music cranked up.

[planter]

Highly recommend you watch this video. There is a section about discus and planted tanks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VXe3VKh7qF8&t=196

I watched the entire thing today. Great presentation and tons of great info. I learned a lot and was reminded of things I'd forgotten over the years. Yeah I think it's going to be a challenge to give these fish what they need in my tank.

[planter]

So after some consideration I've decided not to keep discus in this tank. I don't think I will be able to properly provide them with the conditions they need to thrive in. Unless I do a serious upgrade, complelty redo this tank or setup another tank for them. Neither of which is in the cards now unless I move. I think it would be irresponsible for me to attempt this and would only lead to problems down the road or at the very least unhappy fish.

Thanks everyone for your input. I'm going to stick around and learn a little more so when the time is right I will be ready.

[Kyla]

you could perhaps consider a full-grown bonded pair of discus for the tank. that would allow you to do less wc per week (although the more the merrier) and you wouldnt have to worry about heavy feedings fouling the substrate quickly. i would still QT them in a BB tank tho, then move them to the established tank when thriving.

[Kyla]

if i had the option to redo my current set up, i'd just choose my favourite pair and give them a mansion of a tank, instead of the busy mishmash of random strains i ended up with.

[planter]

Yeah I thought about the bonded pair thing. I would have to find big ones then live with the fact that I have a breeding pair that wouldn't be able to raise their young. I can't setup another tank where I'm living so raising them in a separate is out of the question. Then there is the cost of of a proven pair of full grown discus..... I'm not saying it's off the table but it's not likely. Who knows I might get lucky.

I still have to take the time to condition the plants to take temps up to 82. I'm going to try this anyway as I'm interested to see if slow incremental increases in the water temperature will allow my plants to indure warmer waters as there are other species that I may want to keep in future. L046 plecos, German Rams, Cardinal tetras and apistos come to mind.

[planter]

if i had the option to redo my current set up, i'd just choose my favourite pair and give them a mansion of a tank, instead of the busy mishmash of random strains i ended up with.

I hear you everyone at some point everyone goes through this. Be careful it's also a sign of MTS

[Filip]

I hear you everyone at some point everyone goes through this. Be careful it's also a sign of MTS

And what is an MTS ? It sounds like some kind of diagnose to me :) .

P.S. I personaly IMO don't believe in a slow adjustment of plants to temps.
They all have their max. Limit temp. And once you reach it, they just stops growing , once you excede it they start rotting .
Keeping other growth factors(light, co2,nutriens) optimal can stretch their temp. limits further to some extent.

[planter]

MTS - multiple tank syndrome. It's a popular acronym on some of the forums I visit

Im not implying that I can exceed at particular temp range on a plant but where is there conclusive data outlining the given ranges for any given aquatic plants? Most of the information online is just people's personal experiance nothing more. I could me mistaken but I haven't found it. I also like to fiddle and experiment so I'd figure I'd give it a shot.

[planter]

So a bit of an update. I picked up a few discus 5 in total. 4 were from one source and 1 from another. I'm thinking of getting a few more once I decide on if I'm going to get a bigger tank.

1 I know for sure is stunted. The other 4 I think are ok the one in the first picture is about 3 1/2" . The second picture these two blue ones are the same size at about 4" and the last is somewhere in the middle. That last picture the little one on the left I know is stunted.

Do these guys look stunted?

I'm keeping them in a 50 gallon tank bb with just some plants in a pot.

They are at 3 feeding's of freeze dried blackworms (sometimes bloodworms) a day on average some times more and I do a 70 percent water change a day. I've had them for about 2 months now I haven't really noticed them getting bigger but my wife swears they've grown since I have them.

They are sharing the tank with a couple of German rams and 2 bristlenose plecos.

What do you guys think?http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/filipem1/Mobile%20Uploads/20170123_075927_zpsltaw9r9r.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/filipem1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170123_075927_zpsltaw9r9r.jpg.html) http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/filipem1/Mobile%20Uploads/20170123_080007_zpsjf0nm7n1.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/filipem1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170123_080007_zpsjf0nm7n1.jpg.html) http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/filipem1/Mobile%20Uploads/20170123_080108_zpsilmqsii8.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/filipem1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170123_080108_zpsilmqsii8.jpg.html)

[brewmaster15]

Hi Filipe,
Theres a method of judging a Discus growth by looking at the eye size to body size.. You really want small eyes that can stack up vertically.

ex...


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mmq6NIt5lh4/UkeL-Mm1poI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/wDUnpCAPxhE/s1600/discuseye.jpg




Based on that, these do look a bit stunted. Would be helpful if you had pictures of when you got them?

al

[planter]

Yes ive seen that refrence before but mine fall somewhere between those two that's why I wasn't sure. Now that I look at this older picture I realize that they have grown a bit. Lol

This was about 2 weeks after I got them. I stripped that tank down shortly after
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/filipem1/fish/IMG_20161013_203407_zpsjkvydefk.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/filipem1/media/fish/IMG_20161013_203407_zpsjkvydefk.jpg.html)


http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm286/filipem1/fish/IMG_20161013_203407_zpsjkvydefk.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/filipem1/media/fish/IMG_20161013_203407_zpsjkvydefk.jpg.html)