Super hard tap water - any way to soften it?

[Jayy]

So I tested my tap water today using the API kit and my KH was acceptable at 3 but my GH took 15 drops, which is off the chart. 12 drops indicates a GH of 214 PPM. So needless to say my tap water is super hard.

This probably is contributing to my high PH of 8.1 as well.

So... Is my only option a RODI system? What else could I possibly do to reduce my hardness and PH?

[DJW]

Have you aged some water with aeration and tested the final pH? The discrepancy between your KH and pH indicates that you may have a downward pH swing.

[fishtanktenderfoot]

I run my tap through a standard carbon filter on its way to the aging barrel. I think there are many here who will use a sediment filter followed by one or two carbon filters. Softens and removes chlorine. I don't mess with ph. I don't think 8.1 is too high for a standard community tank of domestic discus. Good luck!

[swetjj123]

I am having problems I am new at this, my discus hardly swims around much mainly just to eat mykh is 0-50 gh50-100 temp 86
ph 6-0 out

[Alight]

You may get a pH swing with aging. Your water is not that hard, but the only way to soften it is with the RO unit. No mater what the others have said, you must remove calcium to reduce the hardness and simple filtering will NOT do this. Given the size of your tank, the only option you have is an RO Unit. You can get one the will give you 100 gallons per day for less than 80 dollars that is quite good now matter what others tell you. The RO Buddy (foster's and Smiths, Ken's and several other places) uses the same ro membrane as much more expensive set ups, and the membrane is the Guts of the unit. It sets the rejection rate, etc, not the other add-ons that often are not necessary.

[Bill63SG]

Unless your planning to breed your water is fine for domestic discus.

[Alight]

Bill is correct. I meant to say that when I said your water is not that hard.

If you want to soften it, however, the RO unit is the way to go. Don't try to use water from a household water softener for example. This will only put lots of sodium in your water and increase your TDS, not decrease it. With the water you have your KH should be much higher. I wonder if your local water company is adding some acid to your water to keep pipes from corroding or scaling closed with that much base. If so, they may be taking it right to the KA of calcium chloride which would explain the KH you have.

[DJW]

... With the water you have your KH should be much higher. I wonder if your local water company is adding some acid to your water to keep pipes from corroding or scaling closed with that much base. If so, they may be taking it right to the KA of calcium chloride which would explain the KH you have.

It looks like sodium hydroxide (or possibly Ca(OH)2) has been added by the city. If this is the case, aeration with ageing will bring CO2 into contact with the base and the resulting reaction will lower the pH. It only takes a few hours.

[ynot]

I moved to Nampa, Id. last year for my job and when I tasted the tap water at the house I rented I spit it out. Worst tasting water I ever tasted so if I won't drink it my discus are not living in it. So I went with 100% ro and I found I actually like being able to replace the minerals to the hardness and ph that I want. And I like the growth I'm getting on my new discus. And it really hasn't been expensive.

[Jayy]

Lots of great information here, thanks everyone. I will call the city water company just for information purposes to see what they add to treat the water which would raise the GH so much.

I will also aerate a batch of tap water overnight and test it out to see if my PH normalizes.

My plan has been to grow out juvenile discus, would a PH of 8 cause any stunting or growth problems with juvenile fish?

I do have a RODI system left over from saltwater days. I'm sure it needs new filters and a new membrane.

[Bill63SG]

The ph wont affect them.Its when you try to ad stuff to lower it and you end up on a rollercoaster.Stable ph is more important then low ph.

[Jayy]

The ph wont affect them.Its when you try to ad stuff to lower it and you end up on a rollercoaster.Stable ph is more important then low ph.

Ok, that's good to know. So, how does this work when acclimating new fish? I've read the PH should not shift more than .3-.5 in a 24 hour period. Would I need to keep new fish in the water they shipped in, with a heater and airstone, and just super slowly drip in tank water over the course of a couple days?

[pitdogg2]

More minerals(calcium) in the water will HELP the Discus skeletal system actually grow better and will be faster growing and less deformities with all this equal that is. STABILITY is the key plain and simple.

I've said this 100's of times here....but here goes again My tap water come out of the tap at 8.6-8.8 and settles down in 24hrs to 7.6-7.8. My fish are always laying eggs and some even hatch and become wigglers then they get picked off by other fish in the aquarium.

Get your fish do daily water changes or at least change 75% every 3rd day and sit back and observe. Many people I know have great luck in higher pH as long as it is stable just like Bill above has stated.

You may need to do more water changes depending on how much and what you feed but WC are a MUST there is no getting away from it.

[pitdogg2]

Ok, that's good to know. So, how does this work when acclimating new fish? I've read the PH should not shift more than .3-.5 in a 24 hour period. Would I need to keep new fish in the water they shipped in, with a heater and airstone, and just super slowly drip in tank water over the course of a couple days?

I got one discus from a LFS it tank water was 3.5 Mine is 7.6 after 5hrs of acclimation and drip he went onto the tank and had no problems.

I would use some prime in the acclimation tank/barrel or whatever you may have an ammonia spike from the water they were shipped in.

[Jayy]

Ok sounds good. I was pretty worried about my high PH and had a bunch of plans to build an auto water change system using the RODI filter. I dislike that thing, always buying new expensive cartridges etc.

It's a relief to know that keeping PH stable is more important than lowering it.

One more question - Those who use driftwood in their tanks.. Can anyone give me an idea of how much (if any) lowering in PH I could expect when adding driftwood? I have two pretty large manzanita stumps on order which will be my only decoration (besides the fish) in a bare bottom tank.

[Filip]

Ok sounds good. I was pretty worried about my high PH and had a bunch of plans to build an auto water change system using the RODI filter. I dislike that thing, always buying new expensive cartridges etc.

It's a relief to know that keeping PH stable is more important than lowering it.

One more question - Those who use driftwood in their tanks.. Can anyone give me an idea of how much (if any) lowering in PH I could expect when adding driftwood? I have two pretty large manzanita stumps on order which will be my only decoration (besides the fish) in a bare bottom tank.

With a couple of large WCs per week that you need to be doing for discus , i doubt that driftwood can have any affect nor time to affect at all .

[Akili]

Jay here is a thread on Manzanita and water parameters http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?104545-Manzanita-and-water-paramaters

[Jayy]

I've got the manzanita wood soaking in a rubbermaid tote now. It's cold water, but I've been draining and changing it once or twice a day. It's still releasing a lot of tannins. Plus I can't quite get both pieces submerged at once. So after reading the thread on it I'm not expecting it to adjust my PH at all. It will just be decoration when it's ready to add to the tank.

Regarding my PH, I put a Seachem PH alert in the tank and it's holding steady at 7.4. But my PH tester still reads 8.2. So I've got a discrepancy somewhere. At this point I'm hoping it's my PH tester because I'd rather have 7.4 PH.

I also have a RO buddy 100 GPD system setup and it's just dripping directly into my DT. I drilled a hole in my sump and put in a bulkhead right at the correct water line and it's plumbed to run down a drain. Eventually I'll run it out to my garden boxes.

So I've got about 100 GPD of RO water entering the system. Because it comes in slowly I'm probably only getting a true daily water change of about 70 gallons which equates to about a 35% daily water change. I have another thread about this system and it's setup if anyone is interested in seeing how I plumbed it. A couple times a week I'll still do a manual WC and vacuum the bare bottom tank. I am noticing that there are two little piles of detritus that build up in the same place in the tank which makes it super easy to vacuum up.