RO unit advice

[delta5]

I have noticed my RO buddie 100gpd unit is slowing down. Flushing the system brings production back up. Is there anything else I can do? Is there a way to soak the membrane in some sort of acid cleaning agent? I think calcium build up may be an issue. When I use to have fish tanks on 100% tap it'd only take a day for a calcium 'ring' to form around my tank.

[rickztahone]

What is your TDS reading?

[Alight]

Your RO buddy should have both a sediment filter and a carbon filter. These need to be replaced. There are very inexpensive replacements for these available. http://www.wateranywhere.com/index.php?cPath=255_262
http://www.wateranywhere.com/product_info.php?products_id=4006

for example.

Also, you can flush your system by taking off the flow restrictor. The fast connectors make it easy to do this and to change the sediment and carbon filters.

You will need to change these filters way more often than the membrane. They cost so much less so do that before you consider a new membrane. The same site I put up above also carries membranes at a good cost, but right now, for some reason, the 100 GPD are not a good price anywhere. You should be able to get one on sale at some point for 20$ or so.

Good luck!

Al Light

[Cosmo]

If your membrane is clogged - throw it away and replace it. You may try doing a long - hour or two - flush first, but messing with it will most likely damage it. airwaterice.com is another great place to buy both filters and membranes. The 150gpd membranes are great and a reasonable price (just remember to replace your flow restrictor with a 150gpd one). A bypass circuit to flush your membrane on a regular basis is a cheap way to avoid replacing membranes. As Alight mentioned, change your filters often, if your carbon block is all used up, the chlorine and/or chloramines will eat up the membrane.

[dprais1]

do a search for temp and RO units. basically warm water coming into the unit will produce ro water much faster than cold water.

I know mine is 2-3x faster when I leave the hot water on vs the cold water.

But do the old google search first, when site said a temp over 95 F could damage the unit.

[delta5]

TDS is 18ppm. The entire Ro unit is only 3m 4d old. My water is super hard tho. Hard to the point where i'll have a white ring around my tank within 48hrs when I used 100% tap water.

[DJW]

Did you measure general hardness (GH) of 18? TDS is a different measure and hard water would be TDS over 200ppm.

[delta5]

Did you measure general hardness (GH) of 18? TDS is a different measure and hard water would be TDS over 200ppm.

TDS from tap = 350-375
TDS from RO = 18TDS

[DJW]

I see, I thought you were showing tap water. My well water is the same, around 375 depending on the time of year. I check the TDS of the RO periodically by running a cup or two out first because the first dribble from the RO is hard. With a new membrane and good pressure the TDS is 5 to 7 ppm, but its still good water at 18.

[delta5]

My problem isn't tds. I believe I am experiencing scaling of the membrane. Could I soak the membrane in distilled vinegar to remove calcium build up?

[Cosmo]

TDS is 18ppm. The entire Ro unit is only 3m 4d old. My water is super hard tho. Hard to the point where i'll have a white ring around my tank within 48hrs when I used 100% tap water.

A tds of 18ppm is terrible out of an RO unit. Mine is 4. Almost certainly you need to replace the membranes - sediment and carbon filters too if it's been awhile. If you don't have a pressure pump you might want to consider picking one up as the higher the pressure the lower the tds in the production water.

As an example of the impact of cleaner prefilters - Last night I replaced my 2 sediment filters ( 10 microns before the pump, 5 microns after the pump) and my two carbon blocks (5 microns first, 1 micron right before the membrane). Pre change my pressure guage was reading 85lbs give or take and I was making water at about 120gpd (using 2 x 150gpd membranes) - YES - water temp effects output and the water is cold (it's winter). AFTER THE PREFILTER CHANGE - pressure on the membrane jumped to 100lbs and I produced 20gal of RO in a little over 2 hours so the production was way up.

Full disclosure - we have a humongous whole house water presurizer plumbed into the house where the water comes in from the city, it boosts the house pressure from 40 to 60+ - then, I have an Aquatec 8800 (the bigger of the two 8800s) that bumps it up the rest of the way. Also, my membranes are both new as of maybe 4 months ago.

Pressure and water temp have the greatest impact on both production and TDS. (after clean and active pre-filters and good healthy membranes)

PS. The harder the source water, the greater the importance of regular flushing of the membrane so the membrane doesn't scale over.

[delta5]

A tds of 18ppm is terrible out of an RO unit. Mine is 4. Almost certainly you need to replace the membranes - sediment and carbon filters too if it's been awhile. If you don't have a pressure pump you might want to consider picking one up as the higher the pressure the lower the tds in the production water.

As an example of the impact of cleaner prefilters - Last night I replaced my 2 sediment filters ( 10 microns before the pump, 5 microns after the pump) and my two carbon blocks (5 microns first, 1 micron right before the membrane). Pre change my pressure guage was reading 85lbs give or take and I was making water at about 120gpd (using 2 x 150gpd membranes) - YES - water temp effects output and the water is cold (it's winter). AFTER THE PREFILTER CHANGE - pressure on the membrane jumped to 100lbs and I produced 20gal of RO in a little over 2 hours so the production was way up.

Full disclosure - we have a humongous whole house water presurizer plumbed into the house where the water comes in from the city, it boosts the house pressure from 40 to 60+ - then, I have an Aquatec 8800 (the bigger of the two 8800s) that bumps it up the rest of the way. Also, my membranes are both new as of maybe 4 months ago.

Pressure and water temp have the greatest impact on both production and TDS. (after clean and active pre-filters and good healthy membranes)

PS. The harder the source water, the greater the importance of regular flushing of the membrane so the membrane doesn't scale over.

I plan on ordering those carbon and sediment membranes from the links provided. WAY cheaper than the replacements on Amazon. I need to get a booster pump as well.

[Len]

replacing filters and membranes after only 3 months? That would become costly. Perhaps contacting one of the RO suppliers or whoever you bought it from could gain you a cheaper recommendation.

[delta5]

replacing filters and membranes after only 3 months? That would become costly. Perhaps contacting one of the RO suppliers or whoever you bought it from could gain you a cheaper recommendation.

The carbon filter from the supplier of my RO unit wants 13 dollars per filter and they're only rated for up to 1,500G depending on water quality.

[Len]

and how much to replace the membrane? Maybe I shouldn't be surprised at the cost for some people to prepare their water but it sure makes me thankful for the water I have and don't need to go through that.

[delta5]

and how much to replace the membrane? Maybe I shouldn't be surprised at the cost for some people to prepare their water but it sure makes me thankful for the water I have and don't need to go through that.

For the same membran it ranges from 40 to 70 on amazon

[DCL]

Mr. Alight, thank you so much for the suggestion of water anywhere site. You sir just saved me a lot of money. Excellent thread btw, my brain is swelling! (In a good way of course)

[nofearengineer]

You may also wish to investigate a whole house water softener. It will not make your water soft with respect to TDS, but what it will do is exchange sodium ions for calcium and magnesium ions. You will still need your RO unit for your aquarium water, but sodium will not scale up your membrane, and it will be much easier (and cheaper) for your RO unit to remove.

[delta5]

Is it possible to run a 150gpd membrane through 1/4" tubing? If I do upgrade my ro buddie to do 150GPD, would I want to run 2 sets of sediment and carbon filters in parallel? OR just keep them in series?

edit: What about an inline water softener?

[Akili]

It is possible to upgrade the existing membrane, Simply replace the membrane with the desired capacity and the correctly sized matching flow restrictor.A few years back I went from 50 gallons to 75 gallons. works like a charm.

[delta5]

It is possible to upgrade the existing membrane, Simply replace the membrane with the desired capacity and the correctly sized matching flow restrictor.A few years back I went from 50 gallons to 75 gallons. works like a charm.

I understand that. I do wonder if 1/4 tubing is too restrictive for 150gpd. Maybe one size up to the ro membrane housing and 1/4 for the waste and ro output lines.

[DJW]

Mine is 200 gpd and uses all 1/4 lines.

[delta5]

Mine is 200 gpd and uses all 1/4 lines.

Thank you.

[Alight]

Yes, you could do the 150 if you want as others have suggested. Should be no problem, and may not cost you much more, given the current price of 100 gallon membranes. The 150 flow restrictor should be less than 10$. Try the sediment and carbon prefilter replacement first. It is very likely your membrane is not scaled and your flow will be fine after you change them. You would not know if it was unless you ripped your current one apart. You cannot tell by looking at the outside. These prefilters on an RO buddie are a bit small, which means they will need to be replace fairly often. But they are pretty cheap. You can replace them with full size prefilters, but this may not make it less expensive over all since the larger filters are a dollar or two more. Make sure your flush your unit often as others have said. Just turn the pressure off your unit, pop off the flow restrictor, put a bucket under the water line, turn on the pressure on your unit, and let about 1/3 bucket of water flow into the bucket. Turn off the water. Put the flow restrictor back on, and our good to go. Do this about once a week with your unit and your membrane should last a year or more.

[delta5]

Yes, you could do the 150 if you want as others have suggested. Should be no problem, and may not cost you much more, given the current price of 100 gallon membranes. The 150 flow restrictor should be less than 10$. Try the sediment and carbon prefilter replacement first. It is very likely your membrane is not scaled and your flow will be fine after you change them. You would not know if it was unless you ripped your current one apart. You cannot tell by looking at the outside. These prefilters on an RO buddie are a bit small, which means they will need to be replace fairly often. But they are pretty cheap. You can replace them with full size prefilters, but this may not make it less expensive over all since the larger filters are a dollar or two more. Make sure your flush your unit often as others have said. Just turn the pressure off your unit, pop off the flow restrictor, put a bucket under the water line, turn on the pressure on your unit, and let about 1/3 bucket of water flow into the bucket. Turn off the water. Put the flow restrictor back on, and our good to go. Do this about once a week with your unit and your membrane should last a year or more.

http://www.amazon.com/Aquatic-Life-Buddie-Carbon-Cartridge/dp/B00DOG66RI?ie=UTF8&keywords=ro%20buddie&qid=1459427150&ref_=sr_1_4&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.com/Aquatic-Life-Buddie-Sediment-Cartridge/dp/B00DOG6614?ie=UTF8&keywords=ro%20buddie&qid=1459427150&ref_=sr_1_3&sr=8-3

The above are the ones that I have always bought. Thanks to this thread I now know I can buy them at 4 dollars on https://www.wateranywhere.com/index.php. I can buy basically 3 sets for the price of one set of the RO Buddie's including shipping. I'm also thinking maybe I should install a booster pump that can do 100GPD to 200GPD before upgrading to a 150GPD membrane.

[Akili]

Delta5 Out of curiosity why do you need 150 gallon to 200 gallons of Reverse Osmosis water a day? If not mistaken you only have one pair.

[delta5]

Delta5 Out of curiosity why do you need 150 gallon to 200 gallons of Reverse Osmosis water a day? If not mistaken you only have one pair.

I figure if I add a booster pump, i'd want it to give me room for that 150gpd or even 200gpd membrane upgrade down the road. Even tho I prob won't need that many GPD for awhile; I don't want to be upgrading the booster within a year.

[Akili]

I figure if I add a booster pump, i'd want it to give me room for that 150gpd or even 200gpd membrane upgrade down the road. Even tho I prob won't need that many GPD for awhile; I don't want to be upgrading the booster within a year.You can go that route but not necessary if you manage your water right.I have three pairs that spawn two in 35 gallon tanks and one in a 50 gallon tank and 75 gallons per day is more than enough. At the moment the 50 gallon one is on 100 % tap water as it has the Turquoise pair with their fry.

[delta5]

You can go that route but not necessary if you manage your water right.I have three pairs that spawn two in 35 gallon tanks and one in a 50 gallon tank and 75 gallons per day is more than enough. At the moment the 50 gallon one is on 100 % tap water as it has the Turquoise pair with their fry.

Okay, so what booster pump would you recommend for a 100GPD ro unit?

[Akili]

Okay, so what booster pump would you recommend for a 100GPD ro unit? Aquatec Booster Pump 50-100 GPD from Wateranywhere.com may be you want to look at.

[DJW]

The Aquatec 8800 is a good pump:

http://www.amazon.com/Aquatec-8800-water-booster-Transformer/dp/B00ENPZE5Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459430701&sr=8-1&keywords=aquatec+8800+booster+pump

If you are filling a barrel with a float valve you will also need the shut-off switch:

http://www.amazon.com/Shutoff-Switch-Aquatec-Booster-Pumps/dp/B007XVJYZQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1459430701&sr=8-3&keywords=aquatec+8800+booster+pump

If I had good water pressure like 60 psi, I wouldn't bother with the pump, it is noisy. But if you have a well or pressure under 45 or 50 psi the pump will give a lower TDS. With a booster pump you are supposed to get a better waste water ratio but I never measured the difference.

[delta5]

Aquatec Booster Pump 50-100 GPD from Wateranywhere.com may be you want to look at.

Thanks.

[delta5]

The Aquatec 8800 is a good pump:

http://www.amazon.com/Aquatec-8800-water-booster-Transformer/dp/B00ENPZE5Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459430701&sr=8-1&keywords=aquatec+8800+booster+pump

If you are filling a barrel with a float valve you will also need the shut-off switch:

http://www.amazon.com/Shutoff-Switch-Aquatec-Booster-Pumps/dp/B007XVJYZQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1459430701&sr=8-3&keywords=aquatec+8800+booster+pump

If I had good water pressure like 60 psi, I wouldn't bother with the pump, it is noisy. But if you have a well or pressure under 45 or 50 psi the pump will give a lower TDS. With a booster pump you are supposed to get a better waste water ratio but I never measured the difference.

So I guess I will buy a psi gauge first. Right now my ro unit runs off just the cold water line. 57F is the temp straight from the faucet. Would it be helpful to add a hot water line and just mix the cold and hot together?

[DJW]

I have never tried running hot/cold mix to the RO because you would be heating waste water. That's expensive when you consider that a typical ratio of waste to product water is around 4 to 1. My filter would have 4 gallons of heated water going down the drain for every gallon of RO water.

Do you have city water or a well? The pressure from a well cycles up and down from 30 to 50 psi, or maybe from 40 to 60 psi depending on how the pressure switch is set. This is where a pump can make a real difference.

You can get a cheap pressure gauge and some quick connect fittings and install it easily on the feed line to the filter.

[delta5]

I have never tried running hot/cold mix to the RO because you would be heating waste water. That's expensive when you consider that a typical ratio of waste to product water is around 4 to 1. My filter would have 4 gallons of heated water going down the drain for every gallon of RO water.

Do you have city water or a well? The pressure from a well cycles up and down from 30 to 50 psi, or maybe from 40 to 60 psi depending on how the pressure switch is set. This is where a pump can make a real difference.

You can get a cheap pressure gauge and some quick connect fittings and install it easily on the feed line to the filter.

City water. I soaked my sediment filter in 100% distilled vinegar. Hooked up to go straight into the sink and it put out a few puffs and some really nasty looking water but the flow is back until I get new filters in the mail.

[DJW]

So it sounds like the sediment filter is getting hard water scales. That doesn't happen with mine but whenever we assume that other people's water behaves like our own we are probably wrong.

I don't have to deal with chlorine but I have read that chlorine ruins RO membranes, which means that the prefilters need frequent changing. I change mine about every 1.5 months, chlorine or not.

[delta5]

So it sounds like the sediment filter is getting hard water scales. That doesn't happen with mine but whenever we assume that other people's water behaves like our own we are probably wrong.

I don't have to deal with chlorine but I have read that chlorine ruins RO membranes, which means that the prefilters need frequent changing. I change mine about every 1.5 months, chlorine or not.

I test the water going to the membrane with marineland test stripes.

[delta5]

Update: with the sediment filter being cleaned I am up to 90GPD and no change to water going into the membrane housing.