Royals?

[nofearengineer]

Can someone please help this noob out by explaining what exactly the difference is between regular, semi-royal and royals? I hear these terms referring to red and even turqs. I am clueless.

[Phillydubs]

Coming from a full out wild newb who actually now has these I can do my best guess based on a quick email from John when I was in the buying process. I went with reds myself because I just love them. I had my heart set on this one pic I found. John tells me he has the potential of two alenquer reds to look like what I want. I ended up with 3 cuperia red as well because he just said they were so damn nice and when a man of his ilk who has been doing this as long as he has says that I believe it and ride it.

I get my Invoice and see 2 semi royal red alenquer at a bit higher price. Initially when I hear royal, at least my own mind goes blue , royal blue. Thinking he made a mistake I email him to check. He says no they are the ones you want. They are s bit more striated than the regular. So based off that exchange my guess is semis are semi more striated and full Royal much more striated and patterned. Very interested to hear the others Input

[Second Hand Pat]

That is pretty good Phil. The royal/semi-royal indicatives the amount of striations on the fish. A regular is a fish with no striations or slight striations in the forehead and very lightly in the upper and lower fins. You will see a regular called a solid quite often.
Pat

[Akili]

This is a old thread( over 4 years) by Larry Bugg that has videos and photos of Royals and Semi Royal Blues.You can see the difference, nofearengineer hope this helps http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?93811-Wild-Uatuma-Royals-and-Maracana-Semi-Royal-Blues

[Second Hand Pat]

This is considered a Cuipeua Royal. The striations are becoming stronger/wider as the fish matures.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1555/24112127343_f0bc354e6f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CJGXpv)DSC_5303 (https://flic.kr/p/CJGXpv)

[pitdogg2]

very nice Pat

[Phillydubs]

That is an awesome one pat! Now is it truly that deep red/maroon color, or is that the camera or the lights or the darker water? I also know you keep a low ph which helps them show colors differently... Right now mine are def on the light side, that yellowy... I know it takes a long time for them to settle and show true colors so just curious as to what I can expect... I really want/wanted and expressed to John my love of fish like yours, I think/hope he got my point and helped me select...

Just hoping its a matter of time and patience than just not happening at all...

[Second Hand Pat]

very nice Pat

Thanks Ivan (I hope I got the name right) ;)


That is an awesome one pat! Now is it truly that deep red/maroon color, or is that the camera or the lights or the darker water? I also know you keep a low ph which helps them show colors differently... Right now mine are def on the light side, that yellowy... I know it takes a long time for them to settle and show true colors so just curious as to what I can expect... I really want/wanted and expressed to John my love of fish like yours, I think/hope he got my point and helped me select...

Just hoping its a matter of time and patience than just not happening at all...

Darn close Phil, remember wilds take a year to acclimate to tank life so had this guy a bit over a year now. Also this guy is still growing.
Pat

[Phillydubs]

I guess I better set my year countdown clock now! Haha! Will be a fun ride that is for sure!

[pitdogg2]

yep:grin:

[Phillydubs]

What fish is in your avatar again pat?

[Second Hand Pat]

What fish is in your avatar again pat?

It is a Cuipeua Phil, it would be considered a solid.
Pat

[Phillydubs]

Ah ok, makes sense, you can see the very solid body and some striations but mostly on the head area...

Are all wilds from the Cuipeua region considered "red" or do they have different green's, blues and heckles as well?

Someone was also explaining to me the "region" myth you may call it as it has become more of a marketing tool... Not even sure if I am explaining it correctly but just something that the collectors and shippers and sellers use to promote the fish, when all of these areas and bodies of water are similar and the fish has no idea where it is per-say?

Again, I am doing a crap job of expressing the point here, hope you get my jist

[Second Hand Pat]

Well, Cuipeua's come from Lago Cuipeua (collection point) which is part of the Alenquer region. There are many red-based browns/blues which come from the Alenquer region. Not sure that I have heard of heckels or greens being collected from the Alenquer region. I have heard of wilds being sold under names which are not representative of their true collection site.
Pat

[Phillydubs]

So for instance my Alenquer semi-royal reds and my cuipeau reds are from the same region but the collection point on the cuipeau is the lago portion where the semi-royals prob came from a different point hence the name?

[Second Hand Pat]

So for instance my Alenquer semi-royal reds and my cuipeau reds are from the same region but the collection point on the cuipeau is the lago portion where the semi-royals prob came from a different point hence the name?

That would be my guess Phil.

[Phillydubs]

Thanks Pat! And sorry to Mr. No fear for the post hijack! I hope you still get your question answered! Haha!

Are you contemplating going the wild route and getting some in for that big cool tank you are working on?

[nofearengineer]

Thanks Pat! And sorry to Mr. No fear for the post hijack! I hope you still get your question answered! Haha!

Are you contemplating going the wild route and getting some in for that big cool tank you are working on?


No problem at all! I am still at that point that almost all information, even that which wasn't requested, is pretty educational hah.

Okay, I finally understand the royal thing I think. I saw some website that was calling a fish a royal if the scales were more metallic and I was like WTH? This clears it up.

As for the wilds, I want to, yes...but lots of people are trying to scare me off of them, like I'm a kid who just won his first goldfish from the county fair. I know they are just trying to be helpful, but it only makes it harder to self-assess my probable success rate with a fish I haven't kept before.

This is why I've gotten somewhat more okay with the thought of some domestic strains, though they really just don't appeal to me as much.

I'll probably feel more comfortable as soon as I get my 55's up and running and my RO/water storage system sorted out. I figure as long as I can supply good, clean RO water, good food, and am prepared for disease issues with proper meds and a good reliable knowledge base to fall back on, there isn't a lot more than that, right?

[pitdogg2]

get some F1's or whatever from Carolina Discus that would be a good first start to Wilds then move on to fresh out of the Amazon fish.

http://www.carolinadiscus.com/home.html

His I believe are Royal Blues and he does have some Heckle crosses

[Phillydubs]

Well No Fear, that is quite shotty that people are pushing you off of what you want and seem to have a desire for... I mean, it was obvious to me and I could tell by your post that you want to go the wild route and it seems as if you will be settling going another route and in the end, I promise, you will not be happy and will have regrets...

I have seen and been following along closely with your tank build and your attention to detail there and let me say you don't seem to be leaving any stone unturned and you are making one hell of an investment in that tank, both with time and mucho $$$. Why deny yourself what you really want?? Hell, if I was dumping the effort and cash you are into a tank you better believe I am going full out with my vision, so I encourage you to do so!

I am sure people making suggestions are doing it out of the goodness of their heart and want to see you succeed, but I see no reason why you can succeed and get what you want all in one...

Hell, my tank looks like a vase with a betta in it compared to yours and I have 5 awesome wilds in it. I am not doing anything special just yet. I know a friend locally who is very successful at keeping and breeding discus and he too has some amazing wilds and all he gives them is aged tap and keeps it clean and fresh. Sure, people here play with the ph and the acidic levels and hardness and all of that... I may try it myself down the line, but as of now I am keeping it simple and basic. In the end discus are discus at least to me... Sure they have different traits and behaviors when you see true wilds vs long lined domestic strains but in the end, you give them the care they need, good clean water, diet and you are good to go!

You seem like a smart dude with a real sweet set-up, I would go for the gusto and get you some wilds!

Not to mention you have rookies like me all the way up to some super knowledgeable people like Pat on this forum to lean on. You seem like a planner and someone who does things right and is ready for what may occur... I don't see you or anyone else who is ready can't keep a killer tank of wilds!

[nofearengineer]

Thanks, Phil. That kind of encouragement is nice to hear. :)

[nofearengineer]

Oh, btw...my apologies, Pat! I just noticed you cleaning up my mess. Those pesky acronyms have become so second nature, one almost forgets they stand for actual words. :blushing:

[Second Hand Pat]

Oh, btw...my apologies, Pat! I just noticed you cleaning up my mess. Those pesky acronyms have become so second nature, one almost forgets they stand for actual words. :blushing:

Not a problem :D

[Phillydubs]

Anytime man, just the truth and how I feel, since you seem to be getting swung the other way, I figured why not throw my 2 cents in...

[Larry Bugg]

So for instance my Alenquer semi-royal reds and my cuipeau reds are from the same region but the collection point on the cuipeau is the lago portion where the semi-royals prob came from a different point hence the name?

You can see cuipeua on the google map here. The Alenquer region is quite large and lago cuipeua is just a small area of it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@-1.8867709,-55.1754632,10z

Here is a pretty good map that Dale Jordan shared with me 6 or 7 years ago when I first started keeping wilds. This shows the breakdown of where reds, blues, greens and heckles are found.

96239

[Phillydubs]

Wow!! Thats an awesome Map Larry!! Thank you so much for sharing! I am printing that one and putting it on my desk! Super cool!

What wilds do you have these days?

[Larry Bugg]

Wow!! Thats an awesome Map Larry!! Thank you so much for sharing! I am printing that one and putting it on my desk! Super cool!

What wilds do you have these days?

I sold all my fish when I took the fish room down to move. All the equipment is in storage at my father-in-laws where we will be living for the next 6 months or so until our new house is ready. I will build a free standing fish house then. I do have a 125, four 40's and two 29's that I just set up in his garage temporarily. I just purchased 2 cuipeua and 1 blue face heckle from Mark (Discus Origins) that will be shipped to me next week. Hopefully they are males. My plan is to do some wild/domestic crosses when I get things set up again and will use wild males with domestic females. The domestics will probably be brown based reds and turqs. Cuipeua's are by far my favorite.

[Phillydubs]

I see Larry, well good to know this is just temporary, sounds like you already have some fun stuff in the works and a plan in place! I am excited to see what you produce with your crosses!

I am loving my Cuipeau's as well... but these semi-royal alenquers are hard to not look at, they are stealing some of the glory now, but I am sure as the Cuipeau's mature and color I will be blown away by them, kinda why I went with the slight mix...

[warblad79]

I sold all my fish when I took the fish room down to move. All the equipment is in storage at my father-in-laws where we will be living for the next 6 months or so until our new house is ready. I will build a free standing fish house then. I do have a 125, four 40's and two 29's that I just set up in his garage temporarily. I just purchased 2 cuipeua and 1 blue face heckle from Mark (Discus Origins) that will be shipped to me next week. Hopefully they are males. My plan is to do some wild/domestic crosses when I get things set up again and will use wild males with domestic females. The domestics will probably be brown based reds and turqs. Cuipeua's are by far my favorite.

I'm going with the same path as you, what are the chances of getting a female heckel?

[Larry Bugg]

I'm going with the same path as you, what are the chances of getting a female heckel?

Getting a female heckle is not the hard part. The hard part is getting a female heckle to lay eggs. Female wilds in general are hard to get to spawn but female heckles are the hardest which is why so few heckles have been bred in captivity.

[warblad79]

Getting a female heckle is not the hard part. The hard part is getting a female heckle to lay eggs. Female wilds in general are hard to get to spawn but female heckles are the hardest which is why so few heckles have been bred in captivity.

Thank You! Larry, any suggestion or recommendation how to breed them with domestic? come on show us your secret

[Larry Bugg]

Thank You! Larry, any suggestion or recommendation how to breed them with domestic? come on show us your secret

The crosses I have done in the past were always with a male wild. Males, wild or domestic, just plain want to breed. So that is my only real trick. Otherwise I treat them just as I would a domestic pair.

[warblad79]

The crosses I have done in the past were always with a male wild. Males, wild or domestic, just plain want to breed. So that is my only real trick. Otherwise I treat them just as I would a domestic pair.

Nice!

[Phillydubs]

Larry or others, going back to the map a minute... Is there any reasoning behind the colors and types being where they are? Is it for cammofaluge, water temp, etc?

I guess what I mean is why do all the reds for instance tend to be in that Alenquer region...? Where the heckles are more towards another area, and so on and so forth?

[nofearengineer]

All this talk of Heckels gets me excited.

[rickztahone]

Cool thread with some good discussions. Keep it going :). nofear, don't let others dissuade you from what you want, HOWEVER, make sure you do a lot of research on the things they pose as concerns. Personally, the researching phase is huge for me, and I like to research things you shouldn't do so that I avoid them from the very start. Listen to what people tell you, but more importantly, KNOW which people you should be listening to.

[Fundulopanchax]

That is one very nice fish!

Ron

[janekds]

Can someone tell me if this is a royal or semi Royal 96368

[Phillydubs]

That is really a hard pic to see much from... But by the looks of it, that seems like some type of cross and not a true wild discus... Tell us more about it, where you got it and share more pics please

[rickztahone]

Can someone tell me if this is a royal or semi Royal 96368

This would be a domestic discus, not wild

[warblad79]

More like a cobalt blue and definitely not a wild.

Here's what Wild Royal Blue looks like,
9640496405