ADA soil heartbreaker. Anybody else have problems?

[SVdiskygirl]

After much research on substrate systems for my planted discus tank, I decided to try the very expensive ADA Power Sand and Amazonia soil. Put it in tank and ran it with just plants for 6 weeks before putting the juvenile discus and zebra plecos back in there. All was well for 2 weeks- until I disturbed the soil while cleaning. Someone really should have warned me that this soil is ill advised for growing out hungry juvenile discus and keeping their tank clean. Utter NIGHTMARE! I cleaned their tank after dinner, watched the fish until 11 pm, and awoke to a tank of dead fish at 6 am. Every last fish and zebra pleco was dead. Water testing, temp, heaters- everything tested out perfectly. One breeder thought it was a "Ph crash". Another breeder said there's no such thing. I have found some old posts on other planted tank forums with people experiencing losses after disturbing the soil so I'm thinking the only explanation is a release of anaerobic bacteria that suffocated the fish.

Anybody else have problems with this? It was almost enough to make me throw my tank out in the front yard. I ripped out the soil (hopefully it will at least do something for my lawn) and restarted the tank with power sand and eco complete- so far, so good. New stock doing fine.

[Phillydubs]

ugh!!! That is brutal! I am so so sorry to hear this...

I just started with sand in a new tank and still have fears of issues as I have heard some horror stories such as yours... I have no experience w the substrate you speak of but I have to ask... How often were you doing water changes? Were you feeding BH? Did you stir up the sand and substrate during each cleaning? All I have read and researched seems to be that the sand bend needs to be stirred, don't give anything a chance to get stuck and foul or gasses to form, that is when the issues occur...

[Len]

Very sorry to hear this happened. If those selling you the goods for the planted tank were the same folks selling you the juvenile discus they unfortunately set you up for failure if you are new to both. It can be successfully done, but takes a lot of work and is still prone to more problems than raising discus in a bare tank or at most a tank with a thin layer of sand. I see you are fairly new to the forum -- welcome to Simply Discus. There is a wealth of information here that can help you be successful in raising/keeping discus so don't get discouraged and read as much as you can. If you run into problems there are many folks here more than willing to help with advice and get you pointed in the right direction

[CrazyAngels]

I would have never used substrate in a juvenile tank, In fact you'll find so many in here who started with substrate and sooner or later removed it..

I would remove the soil and use it to do your plants potted and the tank bottom bare.

[nofearengineer]

I am so sorry to hear about this. It makes my stomach twist just hearing it.

I love ADA Aquasoil (I have it in most of my planted tanks), but as others here have posted, it is ill suited to something that requires a really clean aquarium.

I would never, ever use it unless I had a really good cleaning crew of corys, shrimp, etc. And if I were going to feed something really messy like beefheart (I've seen videos), I wouldn't use it at all.

I am a little worried about the Eco-Complete though...if the culprit really was the Aquasoil. Those substrates are both capable of what you described.

[pitdogg2]

restarted the tank with power sand and eco complete- so far, so good. New stock doing fine.

it really is no different, most planted tanks "depend" on the soil not being disturbed or vacuumed because of the plant roots. This goes completely against the keeping of Discus which depend on good clean vacuumed tanks. What killed your fish was methane gas that builds up in these soils from two different sources the Anaerobic bacteria and waste that is decomposing deep in the soils that would help plants grow do not benefit fish the same. I plant my plants in pots doesn't matter which kind they all work as long as they do not have glaze on them. I use flourite in the pots you can use your substrate in the pot as well. that way you have a clean bottom to get all detritus out during your tank maintenance. I use clay pots that I take out of the tank and let water flow through from time to time so not to release that gas back into the AQ..Works for me

[Len]

it really is no different, most planted tanks "depend" on the soil not being disturbed or vacuumed because of the plant roots. This goes completely against the keeping of Discus which depend on good clean vacuumed tanks. What killed your fish was methane gas that builds up in these soils from two different sources the Anaerobic bacteria and waste that is decomposing deep in the soils that would help plants grow do not benefit fish the same. I plant my plants in pots doesn't matter which kind they all work as long as they do not have glaze on them. I use flourite in the pots you can use your substrate in the pot as well. that way you have a clean bottom to get all detritus out during your tank maintenance. I use clay pots that I take out of the tank and let water flow through from time to time so not to release that gas back into the AQ..Works for me

That is a very good compromise between planted and discus tank for raising fish.

[SVdiskygirl]

I know you all say that raising juveniles in a bare bottom tank is the way to go- well, I am not in this tank over $15k to have an ugly bare bottom tank in my living room. I was warned against fluorite. Is there a sand for freshwater that will work for growing plants and not raise my Ph? Also when you vacuum the sand is it hard to keep it from coming up and clogging my sink?

[SVdiskygirl]

the tank is heavily planted with swords, lotus, anubias and hair grass. I left the front where the discus tend to eat unplanted- that section does get vacuumed every few days. So far so good. I do have 4 corries, 2 clown loaches, 6 multicats and some plecos for a clean up crew.

Have you ever used a white sand substrate for a discus tank? Is there one that won't raise my Ph? My Ph is 7.8 out of the tap and I don't want to mess with buffers and Ph swings.

[Phillydubs]

15k?? Damn, what kinda set-up do you have there? And not to be rude, but if you are dumping that kinda cash in to the tank, why are you even bothering with juvie discus? For that kinda money you could get big healthy adults and avoid a lot of this...

[pitdogg2]

15K?........ pictures or it didn't happen:cool::fish::jester:

[Debow]

15k?? Damn, what kinda set-up do you have there? And not to be rude, but if you are dumping that kinda cash in to the tank, why are you even bothering with juvie discus? For that kinda money you could get big healthy adults and avoid a lot of this...

Enough said, with a tank like that no point in putting small 2.5'' fish with un-matured color and patterns. Spend the $1500 and but some nice 5'' fish and get a substrate that you can clean. I couldn't imagine not cleaning my substrate, I clean it 3 times a week and am amazed how quick crud builds up in it. You have to get a system that both looks nice but is functional and healthy for the fish, don't forget they are living animals sometimes compromise is needed, fish are just like every other pet cat or dog. You would not want to harm you're dog or cat for your own benefit? Same goes for fish.

[warblad79]

Someone really should have warned me that this soil is ill advised for growing out hungry juvenile discus and keeping their tank clean.

I'll be blunt but you should have done your research first before getting into this. I far as I know ADA soil has a PH buffering so you're going to have a lot of PH swing for few days. Juvenile discus will not easily cope up with PH swing and they would just die. Then guess what? Juvenile discus actually needs higher PH to grow them up. so it's really a bad combination, I don't who's someone will tell or warned you other than yourself through your research.

[ksuyen]

I am using ADA white sand, hopefully I won't find seven dead discus in the morning ><" When I do cleaning, I always vacuum the sand pretty deep. Now I am worried if I have exposed my fishes with unwanted elements.

[Phillydubs]

She got awfully quiet after that 15k comment....? Hmmmm

[Debow]

I vacuum my sand every water change as not to allow build up. Its good practice to disturb the sand on a regular basis.

[Debow]

She got awfully quiet after that 15k comment....? Hmmmm

Seems that way doesn't it ?

[zchauvin]

Not sure what you did wrong, but ADA aquasoil leaches ammonia into the tank for up to three weeks, does nothing to fish if disturbed, and lowers your ph. All of these effects are proven and I have used this on several of my planted tanks and can vouch for each effect. Something doesn't add up.

[number1sixerfan]

It's because of the fact that they're juvies. Feeding that often + Aquasoil + Disturbing the tank... recipe for death. That's why people grow out in bare bottom tanks, research would've helped here--I'm just commenting because I've used AS before and with the right knowledge it's perfectly fine. And with AS, if you do accidentally disturb it and cause a dust cloud, you'll have to do multiple immediate water changes over 24hrs or so.

[melita]

So sorry that happened to you I use pool filter sand in my tank. Never had any problem I do vacum it often .