Discus Newbie: 5 Juvies in a 55G bare bottom

[rpb1975]

Hello all! I have been reading thread after thread on here for about two weeks now, and I would love to get some input on my particular set-up. I'm trying to follow the advice I've read, and I can provide as much detail as you would like.

I picked up 5 juvy discus ranging between 2.5" and 4" (2 Cobalts and 3 Brillian), and I was told they came from Cato Mills (I'm thinking they came from John). I prepared a 55G bare bottom tank for them and placed it up high in our living room (about at my chest level). I have a very large sponge filter that has established bacteria in the tank, and I am doing a 60-70% WC every other day. I also vacuum up any let over food about an hour after feeding them to help keep it as clean as possible. I've had this running for about two weeks now and feed 4-5 times every day (Temp is between 84.5 and 85.5 degrees Fahrenheit)

At the beginning (about 2 days after transporting), I noticed long, white segmented feces. I did a lot of reading and found that I needed to treat, so I used API General cure twice over 4 days. The issue cleared up and the fish began eating again so that was a win for me! They continue to eat pretty well, but they are also shy. I have placed wine glasses (some stemmed and some stemless) with soil, sand and plants to provide them areas to hide in while still keeping them in a bare bottom tank. I will approach and talk to them to help introduce myself, but when I feed...they will not come right out and eat the food. If I leave for half and hour and come back, it is clear they have eaten almost all of the food. I know they are eating, but the shyness has me concerned.

For water changes, I have a 55G in the garage with two heaters. I fill it up, treat with prime, and I let it aerate with a bubbler and age for at least 24 hours. I use that water for water changes every other day to try to avoid PH fluctuations. I know that some people change water more and some less, but I felt like this was a good middle ground for me to have a sustainable plan for the next six months while growing them out.

I read suggestions about tapping on the glass when adding food, so they start to correlate food with the sound. However, if they don't come out when I put the food in, how will the correlate the sound? Another note: If I get to where I can see them but they can't see me, I catch them swimming all over the place. They seem to only be scared of me rather than sick.

I will readily admit I am a discus newbie, but I love them and have loved them for some time. I want to provide a safe home for them to grow up in, and I plan to house them in my 125G planted community tank once they are at least 6". That tank has 2 koi angels, 9 congo tetras, 12 BN plecos, 6 siamese algae eaters, 2 ottos, 2 raindows, and 1 denison barb.

Thanks in advance for the help!

EDIT: Found some pics on my phone that will show you the general set-up and the discus.

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[Phillydubs]

Here I thought your new fish had a drinking problem!! Interesting idea...

[rpb1975]

Only drinking problem is that my wife wasn't too happy that I used a chunk of our wine glasses, lol. I just wanted to provide them a place to congregate where they weren't always on display. Especially since I have kids in the house, and they will already deal with some normal commotion.

[Phillydubs]

Nah it's a cool idea very classy and fancy!!

Only thing j would suggest is upping the water changes especially given the amount you are feeding.

They will come around on the scared front it's normal for them to act that way. Is your tank covered or painted ? Maybe paint or use paper to cover the back and sides they will feel more secure. Also is the bottom of your tank painted or coverd? I would fet cover that or they will be staring at themselves on the floor all day.

[rpb1975]

I could up the water changes to daily, but the WC process seems to scare them a little. Also, I want a routine that I can stick with. However, I guess it would be better to change the water 2 out of every three days than 2 out of every 4. I just need a break from time to time from carrying around 5G buckets of water.

[Akili]

I could up the water changes to daily, but the WC process seems to scare them a little.They will get used to in a week or two.Start with 70% change for a couple days then go to 80 % and so on by the time you get 100 % they will not be jumpy any more.

[rpb1975]

They will get used to in a week or two.Start with 70% change for a couple days then go to 80 % and so on by the time you get 100 % they will not be jumpy any more.

Ok, so dumb question here. How do you even do a 100% water change? What water are the discus in? ;)

Do you just do 80% and then the equivalent of 20% more? Also, one of the reasons I have them in a 55G is so I can follow the 1 discus per 10 gallon rule. I thought that would mean I could do WC every other day instead of every day.

[Braydon00]

When I do 100% WC I drain down to about 10% left and start adding fresh water while draining. I do this for about 5 min, take out the drain tube and fill the rest.

[Akili]

To honest it is not 100 % but close enough,I remove most of the water till the fish are laying flat on their side with maybe half an inch to three quarters of water left.

[rickztahone]

You can literally take out all the water from the tank and have the discus on their sides. You typically don't need to get it this low, but when they are on their sides and you have gotten all of the detritus from the bottom, you are set.

They are still adjusting to their new digs, so give them some time. It usually takes a few weeks for full acclimation. Also, dimming down the lights helps a lot. Lastly, if you have kids running around, make sure you explain to them that the discus spook easy and not to tap on the glass. Not wearing dark clothing or casting shadows on the tank helps a lot as well. Don't try the tapping on the tank just yet. Let them get used to you and then introduce it little by little. After a while they will get it.

[Phillydubs]

No way to run a python or something else to the tank so you are not hauling buckets? or do you have a bigger garbage can on wheels you can use for waste water that way you haul out a large amount at once rather than 5 at a time?

I still do 5 gallons one way... it sucks! I chalk it up to exercise!

[Akili]

No way to run a python or something else to the tank so you are not hauling buckets? or do you have a bigger garbage can on wheels you can use for waste water that way you haul out a large amount at once rather than 5 at a time?

I still do 5 gallons one way... it sucks! I chalk it up to exercise!Phil you not the only only.I carry 5 gallons one way out too.Just finished carrying 17 and 11 more to go this evening.

[Phillydubs]

Soooo thats why your so buff Akili?

[Akili]

Soooo thats why your so buff Akili?Now the secret's out ;)

[Dudley Eirich]

Phil you not the only only.I carry 5 gallons one way out too.Just finished carrying 17 and 11 more to go this evening.

Phil and Akili, I am blessed to have a fish room in the basement. I use a reservoir for fresh water and pump it into the tanks. I also run PVC piping from the tanks to a floor drain so that the drain water siphons directly into the drain pipes. The only 5 gallon bucket that I empty now is when I squeeze out filter media. When I had tanks in my living room, I did the 5 gallon bucket routine. I think that is what caused a hernia that I had to have repaired, so I had to come up with an alternative. If you have to haul 5 gallon buckets one way, I would prefer to haul away the waste water rather than pour clean water into the tanks.

[chuckiesmalls]

I could up the water changes to daily, but the WC process seems to scare them a little. Also, I want a routine that I can stick with. However, I guess it would be better to change the water 2 out of every three days than 2 out of every 4. I just need a break from time to time from carrying around 5G buckets of water.

please don't do that to yourself friend (haul 5 gal buckets back and forth). Go on amazon and buy a submersible pump and some 1/2'OD and 5/8"ID hose from Home depot and don't break your back anymore!!!

LOL! Good luck with everything

[hogan92]

I think you mean 1/2" ID and 5/8" OD, lol

[rpb1975]

please don't do that to yourself friend (haul 5 gal buckets back and forth). Go on amazon and buy a submersible pump and some 1/2'OD and 5/8"ID hose from Home depot and don't break your back anymore!!!

LOL! Good luck with everything

Now that is a great idea! I actually have a 158 GPH pump lying around that I used to use in a Walstad tank. Do you think that would be powerful enough to pump water 100 ft and up an elevation of 8 feet? I think it may do it. All I would need is the hose. :)

[farebox]

To break the 5G bucket drag, I use the python hooked up to an Jehcmo safety siphon and hang on the tank, start the siphon, then turn water faucet off (don't waste water). Next use an siphon hose to clean bottom of tank, emptied into wheeled 20G brute trash can. Next to refill the tank just turn the python on to refill. I empty the trash can using of old mag 5 water pump w/hose out the back door on the grass. I can do my 125G tank fairly quick and easy. I do 50%+ WC every other day on my tank. Also have an 55G grown out tank going with eight 2.5" fish from Hans, 80% daily.

[rickztahone]

Phil and Akili, I am blessed to have a fish room in the basement. I use a reservoir for fresh water and pump it into the tanks. I also run PVC piping from the tanks to a floor drain so that the drain water siphons directly into the drain pipes. The only 5 gallon bucket that I empty now is when I squeeze out filter media. When I had tanks in my living room, I did the 5 gallon bucket routine. I think that is what caused a hernia that I had to have repaired, so I had to come up with an alternative. If you have to haul 5 gallon buckets one way, I would prefer to haul away the waste water rather than pour clean water into the tanks.

The first time I pulled my back out was doing a WC. My back was never the same since. Now it is super easy for it to go out. I will never do the bucket brigade again, simply because of my concern for my own health. Everyone, considering making WC's easier by implementing a better WC system. This actually makes keeping discus a much simpler task.

If you haven't already, check out this thread I created:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?122563-Are-water-changes-a-big-deal-How-to-make-them-easier!&highlight=

[rpb1975]

So, would a 158 GPH pump be powerful enough to push water 50-60 feet and up an elevation of 7 feet? I don't want to buy all of the tubing and find out the pump won't work.

I looked over the water changing thread, but I have a unique situation because my holding tank for aging water is in the garage and the tank the discus are in is in the main living room (not against a wall). I can't drill into the back of the tank to connect a system like in some of the videos I have seen. However, if the pump would work, I could buy the tubing to empty and fill up the majority of the water after syphoning the bottom of the tank.

[Akili]

Take a look at the specifications of your pump.Check for Head Height along with gallons per hour, the pump you mention is most likely has a Head Height of 6 ft.

[Dudley Eirich]

So, would a 158 GPH pump be powerful enough to push water 50-60 feet and up an elevation of 7 feet? I don't want to buy all of the tubing and find out the pump won't work.

I looked over the water changing thread, but I have a unique situation because my holding tank for aging water is in the garage and the tank the discus are in is in the main living room (not against a wall). I can't drill into the back of the tank to connect a system like in some of the videos I have seen. However, if the pump would work, I could buy the tubing to empty and fill up the majority of the water after syphoning the bottom of the tank.

I use a Pondmaster 700 g/h magnetic drive pump: http://www.amazon.com/Danner-02527-Pondmaster-700-Pump/dp/B000BJK3QQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1461786062&sr=1-1&keywords=magnetic+drive+pump+7. With it I can pump about 60 gallons of water to a height of about 7 ft in less than 10 minutes. I don't think that the distance that you pump the water is very important. It is more the inner diameter of the tubing and the height.

[skytan]

Now that is a great idea! I actually have a 158 GPH pump lying around that I used to use in a Walstad tank. Do you think that would be powerful enough to pump water 100 ft and up an elevation of 8 feet? I think it may do it. All I would need is the hose. :)

It depends , the one i am using is 450 g/ph up 6 feet and across about 100 feet (the hose is my garden hose reel) its pretty slow probably 130 odd gph.
Might trying shortening the hose at the next WC , so what i do is i run that and use a 16/22 syphon into a bucket 5 gallon bucket.