Newbie Questions

[guggas]

So I'm in the planning stages of my first discus tank and I have a question that I cant seem to wrap my mind around. I'm planning to go with 6 adult discus in a bare bottom tank initially. Eventually, after I get a feel for discus I would probably want to move them into a planted tank. I've read much of the stickies and other posts and it seems keeping the tank clean, in addition to low nitrates is a key issue. I'm curious, what is it specifically about a non-pristine tank that discus dont like? I could understand that if you tank gets dirty and therefore generates too much nitrate the nitrates are harmful to the fish. It seems with discus its something else though. For example I have a planted tank now with rummy nose tetras that are doing great, that consistently has 0 ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. The plants just suck it all up, but the canister filter is full of nasty organic matter that has been sucked into it. I'm assuming this would be a horrid environment for discus. But i'm curious, what exactly would be harmful to the discus in that dirty, yet 0,0,0 environment.

[Akili]

Large quantities of water changes ensures removal of nitrate and slime build up. Discus produce excessive amounts of slime which eventually adheres to the tank's inner surfaces and other objects like plants, dirftwood that ends up hiding some nasties.Prime areas for Bacteria build up.

[afriend]

guggas,

Welcome to the SD forum.

The problem is that discus do not have a strong immune system (especially when they are young) and this makes them subject to attack from pathogens (bacteria, virus, parasites, and fungus). Pathogens feed on organic material and thus multiply greatly. Water changes and proper tank maintenance reduce the organic material and this helps to keep the pathogens under control.

Hope this helps.

Paul

[discuspaul]

All that 'nasty organic matter' is a breeding ground for the development and proliferation of various types of harmful & potentially toxic bacteria/ pathogenic matter. This adversely affects water quality, rendering it and tank conditions poor, which discus cannot tolerate effectively over time, leading to stress & resulting health issues.
Most other species of fish are generally more resistant to those types of poor conditions, and can survive for longer periods of time in them.
Your params of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates may be '0' all the time, but the water quality may nonetheless be bad for discus.

[guggas]

Thanks for the replies, that makes sense. I'm thinking I will buy a 75 gallon and plan to put 6 adult discus in there. I see the sponge filters and hob seem to be the most common, but I have an old sump that I was considering using, is it a bad idea to use a sump with discus? What are the 'cons' to using a sump for a discus tank? It currently has bioballs in it now, should i scrap the bioballs in favor of some "new and improved media"?

[discuspaul]

Thanks for the replies, that makes sense. I'm thinking I will buy a 75 gallon and plan to put 6 adult discus in there. I see the sponge filters and hob seem to be the most common, but I have an old sump that I was considering using, is it a bad idea to use a sump with discus? What are the 'cons' to using a sump for a discus tank? It currently has bioballs in it now, should i scrap the bioballs in favor of some "new and improved media"?

There is really no serious 'con' to using a sump with a discus set-up.

As far as media is concerned, you do want to maintain at least one medium that more or less permanently provides the major portion of 'housing' for beneficial bacteria for cycle maintenance purposes, and bio-balls do that, among other things.
In order to help improve water quality and to provide high water clarity as well, you may want to consider using filter floss (polyester quilt batting), replaced every 2 weeks or so with new floss; Seachem Purigen on a 24/7 basis by maintaining 2 separate bags (1 in tank while the other re-charges) - recharged approx. every 3 weeks; and fine mesh pre-filters on any filter intake tubes - rinsed well frequently (every 2-3 days).