Keeping a healthy tank, what more can I do

[jim LI]

I have a 72 gallon , 2 years old, 7 adults, 4 bolivian, 6 cories. 1 inch gravel bottom. temp 82.5, ph - 7.6, ammonia - 0, nitrite - 0 , nitrate - 0. doing daily 60% water changes, aged water 24 hours. I use safe as a condition when I do wcs. 2 - 2217 for filtration. 18 inch air wand. every 3 months or so, 1 fish will go hide, not eat. after 3 or so weeks, the fish dies. this has happened to me 4 times over the last year. twice i saw white poop, the other times nothing. i do not see any over aggregation toward this fish or any of the others that have died. is there anything else i can do to make the tank safer for the fish and hopefully not loose any more? i have 1 fish now going through that cycle. i have tried qt tanks with 2 others, medicating with metro. they both died. i did purchase 2 yellows, which were from kenny, which i added to the tank 3 months ago. any suggestions will be appreciated.

thanks,
jim

I fee them twice a day - hans beef heart mix in the morning, Als' FDBW with spinach in the evening.

[Filip]

1. I would check for prefilters on canister filters , because canisters can trap uneaten meat and other food that becomes breeding ground for bacteria in the filter .

2.Also , how often do you clean them ? You shouldn allow any accumulated detritus in canisters.
Do you regulary clean your gravel With every WC? Gravel is notorious for trapping dirt . Switching to fine grain sand also helps preventing detritus in bottom layers.

3. Regulary wipeing aquarium glass with WCs keeps bacteria in check .

And BTW your readings are misleading.
You can never have 0 nitrates with this routine and discus fish.

HTH

[jim LI]

thanks HTH.

i have pre-filters that I clean out and i wipe down the inside of the tank every other wc. i vacuum all the gravel on each wc. as for the nitrates, they are so close to 0, but definitely a lot less than 5. i use the liquid API test kit for testing the nitrates. i clean the canister filters once a month, putting in new filter material instead of washing out the old filter material.

jim

[Phillydubs]

Jim,

You change out all your filter media each month?!?

[Phillydubs]

Jim,

I forget exactly where in Nassau you are, but I believe we are close by and I am confused and concerned for whatnis going on by you...? We use the same water and seem to have similar habits yet you aren't having the best of luck.

Flip makes some great points and asks some good questions. I hope I misread you wrong when you said you throw out your filter media and replace w new. If that's the case you are constantly cycling a tank. Which would/could be the answer to your problems.

The other issue that it could be is contamination. Did you properly qt all fish? If you are seeing white poop then sake thjng is wrong and you may need to meditate the entire tank...

[warblad79]

Your fish would probably safer if you go bare bottom than a planted setup. Planted tank will house parasite and bacteria

[Phillydubs]

I don't believe he has plants but I could be wrong. But he is correct. As was flip get rid of that gravel as well...

I would also consider going hob fikters or adding a nice big sponge to help.

You are more than welcome to swing by my office and see what I have going on if it will help

[jim LI]

thanks for all the replies and to answer the questions.

I am in wantagh.

I change only the filter floss, not the media. the bio media is only rinsed out in discharged tank water.

I do not have live plants in the tank, just some plastic decor.

i can't add any HOB filters due the room i have behind the tank, which is why I went with canister filters.

My wife refuses to have a bare bottom tank, so the sand may be the way to go for me.

I have not noticed any white poop in 2 months, since before the last fish died.

thanks for all your replies .

jim

phil, - getting to oceanside during the week is tough for me. thanks for the offer to show me your set-up. if i do find time, i will definitely contact you.

[Phillydubs]

You forgot to answer one question...? Cross contamination ? We're all your fish and additions properly quarantined? You mentioned recent add one from Kenny. What steps did you take with those.

I mean if all you are telling us adds up then that's the only thing I can think of. That or decor brought over from another tank something. Or the fish came in harboring something to act this way. Your husbandry seems good and you had me worried w the filter comment but as long as you have a sponge or something keeping up the bacteria you are good. Like I said earlier maybe adding a sponge as well. Not pretty but so damn effective.

This may sound harsh but does your wife maintain the tank? Does she do anything but look? You might want to ask her what she prefers fish alive and healthy in the tabk with a bare bottom or some nice pretty gravel with sick dead and or no fish in the tank or you to keep spending money to buy replacements. It's harsh but true and I am not trying to be rude just simply a lot of people who look at fish have no idea how to care for them or what is best. Bare bottom tanks aren't the sexiest but of water cleanliness and health of the fish is an issue its a way to go. Sand is another option but again it can be tough. I'm struggling to figure it out now w my wilds. I have this bigger river Rock sort of bottom and it's so easy to clean. I know people hate on gravel but they mean that crap gravel from the pet store. At least IMO.

The offer stands whenever you want to come by. Just say the words.

[jim LI]

thanks phil, and the new fish were quarantined for 3 weeks. i am going to go with the sand first. i will give a shot at cleaning the canisters every 2 weeks in stead of every month.

thanks to all.
jim

[Filip]

thanks phil, and the new fish were quarantined for 3 weeks. i am going to go with the sand first. i will give a shot at cleaning the canisters every 2 weeks in stead of every month.

thanks to all.
jim

The best size is 0.3 -08mm grain size sand .
Don't go over 1-2 inch depth with sand .The more you put , dirtier it gets . Try to stir it manualy as much as possible before WCs to keep it clean and aerated.
You report to maintain very good cleaning routine , so with everythig said above my guessing leans towards some sort of contamination or illness issue rather than water quality issue.
Good luck

[jim LI]

Thanks Filip. i will probably go with sand, but for now i have decide to go bare bottom until things settle down. i will empty the tank of decor except for the driftwood and 1 plastic cave the rams and cories like to use. a question i do have, what is the better way to remove the gravel, take out a little at a time over a few days, or empty the tank and move the fish to a temporary holding tank?

thanks

[Phillydubs]

You may be better off moving all inhabitants to buckets and really giving that tank a good clean and steralizing it. Even boil that wood again and then get them back in and maybe go with some treatment to really clean them all up so you know you have covered all your basis

[jim LI]

I will go with the empty tank. what treatment do you suggest i use after the fish are back in the tank?

thanks

[Phillydubs]

I am sorry as far as meds I am not the guy to go to, hope someone else can chime in and assist...

[Filip]

i would give them a one week period in a BB tank with raised temp - 32C with pristine water and daily 90% WCs , and wait for their immune system to fight this thing by its self .
If after a week there are stil noneaters and white or transparent poop is present then i would apply Metronidazole along with the 32 C temp. and daily 90% Wcs.

Be strict on WCs because you will loose a lot of BB colonies along with the gravel and will experience a mini cycle - amonia or no2 presence .

[jim LI]

thanks filip. can the rams and the cories that are in the tank stand the 32C temperature? and i will pay attention for a mini cycle.

thanks,
jim.

[Filip]

thanks filip. can the rams and the cories that are in the tank stand the 32C temperature? and i will pay attention for a mini cycle.

thanks,
jim.

You better check this again on Google, but as far as I remember rams should do it ,but corries are a little more sensitive on high temps, so take caution with them.

[jim LI]

You better check this again on Google, but as far as I remember rams should do it ,but corries are a little more sensitive on high temps, so take caution with them.

thanks for all your help filip.

thanks to all who responded.

jim

[Filip]

thanks for all your help filip.

thanks to all who responded.

jim

I wish you good luck Jim and I cinceraly hope to read from you that your fish are doing better.
You seem to do everything by the book , and yet you are facing problems , and that sounds a little unfair to me , so that's why I hope they'll get better .

[jim LI]

thanks filip. i am working on the tank this weekend, i just set up a temporary tank to hold the discus until i am done cleaning and removing the gravel in my main tank.

[Poppa Ryno]

It sounds internal to me if your fish is hiding, not eating, & wasting. I mean your tank sounds clean. What type of sand and how did you rinse/soak/boil it before placing in tank?
If you go with BB you can always add a plant or 2 in a pot for the wife.
Meds that have been effective for me have been
Kanamyacin- initial bact/fung infections in tandum with
Furan2- secondary infections
Praziquintel aka prazipro- internal & parasite.
Without being able to see the fish i would say try a prazi treatment for internal and see how it goes.

Hope all gets better for you

[jim LI]

Tank update - I set up the tank, gravel free and sterilized on 6/4. temp 90 degrees. i clean every surface, new filter pads, new prefilter pads, cleaned all filter tubes, rinsed the bio media in tank water. the only thing in the tank is a piece of driftwood, which was power washed, then boiled for 4 hours. the 2 fish still aren't eat, but it is too early yet. my 2 goldens and checkboard are loving it. i will send another update in a few days. thanks for everyone's input. it really helps.

jim

[Phillydubs]

Are you currently treating the tank ?

[Cosmo]

You're dealing with what I always called "wasting away syndrome" .. one after another they move off into a corner and waste away until they die. It's a tough one and I don't recall that I ever figured out what it was, other than some nasty got into the system. I don't have a barebottom tank and I don't have this problem - maybe going barebottom will help, maybe it won't. Last time I had it I medicated with a combination of Maracyn and Maracyn2 - metro as well if you're seeing white stringy poop. Are you medicating with metro to the label dosage or triple the label? Label dosage never seems to help. Knock on wood I haven't had to deal with this for many years, but I know the heartbreak and frustration - btw, you're fine with cannister filters and your cleaning regimen is more than addequate. Good luck :) One thing you might try is increasing the water changes for a week or two and seeing if that helps.

[jim LI]

Are you currently treating the tank ?

IU am not treating my tank as of yet. i am taking filip's advice and waiting to see if they get back on their own. i will start metro, as suggested, next week if they don't improve.

[chuckiesmalls]

One thing that stood out to me id the fact you state you have zero nitrates but only do 60% WC daily. I do 80% and clean detritus multiple times in a bare bottom tank and mmine are still 3-5PPM.

With substrate and that level of WCs I think there may be an error in your nitrate reading?

What test do you use and are you sure you are following the instructions directly? I was using API and thought I was getting zero readings for a month before I realized I had to shake bottle#2 of the nitrate solution for 30 seconds NOT the test tube...for the first step in the nitrate reading process

but zero nitrates seems odd to me with your current regimen..nobody gets zero nitrates unless their tank is not cycling correctly

[jim LI]

One thing that stood out to me id the fact you state you have zero nitrates but only do 60% WC daily. I do 80% and clean detritus multiple times in a bare bottom tank and mmine are still 3-5PPM.

With substrate and that level of WCs I think there may be an error in your nitrate reading?

What test do you use and are you sure you are following the instructions directly? I was using API and thought I was getting zero readings for a month before I realized I had to shake bottle#2 of the nitrate solution for 30 seconds NOT the test tube...for the first step in the nitrate reading process

but zero nitrates seems odd to me with your current regimen..nobody gets zero nitrates unless their tank is not cycling correctly

i say zero because it is close enough not to be able to tell the difference in color of the nitrate test. i use API and i have follow direction of shaking both the solution and the test tube.

as an fyi, my ammonia is up to .25, so the tank is cycling.. i hope it is just a mini cycle.

[Phillydubs]

Any change in the fish or behavior?

Also just to note I am all for Flips advice on waiting, was just curious which route you chose...

[jim LI]

hi phil, 1 fish is eating FDBW i feed them at night. it will not touch the beefheart mix i feed them in the morning. the other fish is just kind of hanging out. i may cull it this weekend, to put it out of its misery. and i did notice some white stingy poop from the second fish yesterday. once it is gone, i will look for the poop again, to see if any other fish has it. still hoping the first one gets its eating habits back. thanks for asking.

jim