Tank needs and stocking possibilities

[BinaryRun]

Good evening,

I'd like to start by saying that I already love this forum. The amount of information is just overwhelming and I'm really glad that I found it. If you guys don't mind then I'd like to ask a few questions that I'm having, as this would be my first discus tank and I want to make sure that I'm not going to do anything that will harm them.

I'm currently thinking about buying a +/- 63US gallon tank (Juwel Rio 240) that includes a build in heater and internal filtration (bio+carbon+sponge) system capable of filtering 158US gallon each hour. I'm planning on buying juveniles and then letting them grow in the tank bare bottom. Once they are fully grown I'd like to introduce a small layer of sand. If it's okay then I'll just list my questions here and hopefully you'll be able to help me :)

First question:

I've made a picture of one of my LFS's discus tanks, they got quite a few. Would these look healthy to you? I've read the guides, but I would very much appreciate an expert's view.

http://i.imgur.com/6fWZ8n5.png

Second question:

I would like to make my tank a community tank. I realize that this will increase the bioload, so would it be better to have five instead of six discus to ensure that there is enough water 'free' to handle the other fish? I'm thinking about getting a school of 10-20 different tetra's (neon and/or cardinal). If I can place these fish together, do I introduce them all at once or should I place them into the tank with a few weeks in between?

Third question:

Can you keep different colour discus together when you only have a small amount or should they all be the same colour?

Fourth question:

The tank that I'm planning on buying is second hand and thus has an used filter. Should I get fresh filter materials before cycling the tank? Of course I won't know if the old owner ever used chemicals or not.

Fifth question:

In terms of pure tank equipment (equipment without water tests, dechlorinator etc.). Is a heater and good filtration all the equipment you need for the tank itself or is there any mandatory additional equipment?

Last question:

When doing water changes, do you remove all your fish with a net into a separate (temporary) plastic 'box' with dechlorinated water or leave them in the tank as you lower the water? Before I had an axolotl, but since they mostly crawl on the ground they never cared either way.

[Filip]

Welcome to discus fish and SD forum binary run.Hope you ll enjoy it.

You have made your self and fish life much easier deciding to start BB in the growout phase.

Here are my 2 cents on your questions :

1. I'm certainly no expert but this discus on the picture look great IMO. Apart from some peppering they have they are well fed and raised, they are round shaped, and still have some growth to gain .

2.I would go with 6 discus to ensure less pecking order problems . 20-30 cardinals bioload is not considered a very big addition IMO ,since they all weight and eat less than a half of discus .
If they come from same tank / water you can put them together right away, but if they come from different water source be very strict about 1.5 month quarantine procedure described here on the forum.Otherwise your risking your discus contaminating.


3.Colour preference is completely subjective matter.
You can buy whatever colour combination you find eye pleasing for you.

4.its wise to fill up the tank with water and bleach mix ,attach filters and other second hand equipment and run it for a while to sterilize everything and avoid potential contamination.

5.That's all you need for keeping discus, filter and heater.
Its also important to plan a good and easy waterchanging strategy , because ferquent and large Wcs are detrimental to discus health and growth.That will include siphons , pumps and ageing barrel for WCs.

6. We leave the discus in the tank during WCs also .
You can do almost 100% WC , with discus inside .
They just lay sideways , or flip over in an empty tank for a while , until you flll it up again.

Hope this helps discus buddy , and wish you good luck on your first discus journey.

[BinaryRun]

Thank you very much for your elaborate answer. I managed to get a good deal on a tank with a seperate canister filter, so I'm happy about that.

I never thought about using bleach, I suppose that I'm a bit afriad of killing potential good bacteria and to be unable to get all the bleach out properly.

As for colour combination, I realize that it is completely subjective and my own choice. Judt to be sure, mixing several discus colours will not negatively affect their hierarchy?

[Kyla]

you might see different body shapes, slightly different rates of growth etc from different discus varieties. some colour combos are poor breeding mixes (crossig pigeon blood and non-pigeon blood discus will result in pepperred and undesirable fry), but the discus themselves wont care what colour their companions are. getting discus all about the same size is a good idea.

i suggest to look thru the threads on this site and even youtube discus tanks to get a feel for what colours you like. when I started out i wanted one of every colour, and now i have a mix-matched tank. as i looked at other tanks i found i really liked single-strain tanks more than mixed because they seemed more coordinated or "put together"... more sophisticated? i dont know the word im looking for. if i could do it again i would get a batch of identical discus.

dont be afraid of using a bleach+water mix to clean the tank, many ppl do it. just rinse it very well afterwards. i then re-rinse everything with a strong water+seachem safe mix (the powder version of seachem prime) to neutralize any remaining bleach afterwards.

are you aware of the nitrogen cycle? search up some info on "using ammonia to cycle a fish tank" as you will need to establish a strong colony of "beneficial bacteria" (BB) in your tank BEFORE adding the fish.

and def do your research ahead of time and plan out an efficient way to do LOTS of large water changes because this will lead to your success with discus. some kind of hose system will save your back... you do not want to be bucketing your tank for big wc!

the best method for water changes is to age the water in a separate container prior to adding it to your fish tank. there are many great threads on this process on this forum. have you age-tested the ph of your tap water?

[BinaryRun]

I'm currently thinking about getting two different colours, four with the same as in the picture and two that are slightly lighter in colour. They will all be a little bit younger/smaller than the ones in the picture, as my LFS has more colour variations in a smaller size.

I'm indeed aware of the nitrogen cycle from my former axolotl tank. I was thinking about using that filter media to speed up the cycle, however as that tank has a small blue-green algae issue, I have decided against it to avoid spreading the spores from that filter media into the new tank. Instead I will start from scratch with some help from Tetra SafeStart, which worked very well on my 'old' tank.

As for the ph, I have not tested it yet. Howver I do have a bucket of two days old dechlorined water to test it on, which is what I am going to do today.

Edit:

I have checked my PH. It is around 7.5

[Filip]

Start brand new and sterilized .That's the safes way with discus .
And don't worry about bleach , its just concentrated chlorine and it dissipates/ evaporates if you let the bleached materials dry , or just let the bleached water run for a couple of days .
Use tetra safe start bacteria and do more water changes in the beggining and they'll be fine .

[Kyla]

great! do u know the ph of the water straight out of the tap? if there is a difference in ph, aging the water is important to ensure the ph swing doesnt occur with the fish present

[BinaryRun]

I will certainly check that out and let you know. Meanwhile my LFS sells a lot of 2 inch discus. Would that be a good fit for a new tank together with about 30 tetra? I'm planning on doing about 60 percent water changes daily after getting the discus, more if needed to help them grow in a nice clean tank.

Here are a few pictures of the ones they sell, I asked and they import them from Stendker in Germany.

http://imgur.com/a/lMlE4

[Filip]

I will certainly check that out and let you know. Meanwhile my LFS sells a lot of 2 inch discus. Would that be a good fit for a new tank together with about 30 tetra? I'm planning on doing about 60 percent water changes daily after getting the discus, more if needed to help them grow in a nice clean tank.

Here are a few pictures of the ones they sell, I asked and they import them from Stendker in Germany.

http://imgur.com/a/lMlE4

Your plan is good and stendker discus are quality stock to start with .
Just don't put tetras along with discus all at once .
You could contaminate discus right from the start and ruin the chances of full growth potential .
Buy only discus first and after 2 months when they grow an inch or two , introduce tetras but be very strict about 45 days quarantine procedure described here on forum.

[BinaryRun]

I can understand why you would feel like they are too small to go together with tetra straight away. In that case I will probably purchase both the discus and the tetra at the same time, but put the tetra in my 15 gallon tank (If that is large enough for them). That way the tetra can quarantine straight away while the discus grow happily and then be safely put together.

[donnacona]

I sterilize with bleach then rinse everything very well with clean water after that you can put everything together and start the cycling process (simple) .
Stu

[BinaryRun]

I have purchased the driftwood and boiled it, the water was so brown that it nearly looked red. If the wood would colour my water during the cycle, would it be harmfull to the circle and the discus after the cycle or is it only a visual disadvantage?

[Filip]

I can understand why you would feel like they are too small to go together with tetra straight away. In that case I will probably purchase both the discus and the tetra at the same time, but put the tetra in my 15 gallon tank (If that is large enough for them). That way the tetra can quarantine straight away while the discus grow happily and then be safely put together.


Newly introduced discus = low immunity and young discus also = low immune system=catching diseases.
That's why its a good idea to keep them separate for 2 months at the beggining. After that you mix the one least favorite discus with tetras for 2-3 weeks trial period , and if everything goes smooth than you can introduce them with discus.

[Filip]

I have purchased the driftwood and boiled it, the water was so brown that it nearly looked red. If the wood would colour my water during the cycle, would it be harmfull to the circle and the discus after the cycle or is it only a visual disadvantage?

Tannins from the driftwood are completely harmless to nitrogen cycle or any life form in aquarium.
They make water visually darker , and may lower your PH a tad bit only in case you have very soft water with low KH levels or you don't change water for weeks .

[BinaryRun]

great! do u know the ph of the water straight out of the tap? if there is a difference in ph, aging the water is important to ensure the ph swing doesnt occur with the fish present

I completely forgot to let you know, but my tap water was found to have the same PH. I'm currently growing the bacteria after which I'll get the discus. I'm not used to having a bare bottom tank, so I'm mainly figuring out the best way to remove small 'dust' particles from the bottom of my tank as my regular hose won't suck them up and I don't think that my algae razor would be the right method for it.

Lately I have been thinking about going with a pigeon strain, but I read that they have specific requirements especially when it comes to background and possible substrate (after they've grown). However I cannot find that information anymore. Would you know anything about that?

[Akili]

For pigeon bloods stay away from darker colour background and substrate to avoid peppering. Mainly use white sand for substrate and if possibly go with a white background

[BinaryRun]

For pigeon bloods stay away from darker colour background and substrate to avoid peppering. Mainly use white sand for substrate and if possibly go with a white background

Thank you very much for your answer!

If possible, I would appreciate some more feedback from some more experienced discus owners on these young discus at my LFS:

http://imgur.com/a/lMlE4

[Willie]

I would caution you against buying discus at LFS. Concerns are

1. they buy discus from many sources. Bringing them together also brings together all the pathogens. They say that they import from Stendker, but do they do that exclusively?
2. if you're in the US, Discus Hans is Stendker's exclusive distributor - so their fish would have come from him. Order from Hans directly - he's got good stuff. Your LFS did not import their discus from Stendker, Hans did.
3. if you want to be successful with discus, get the discus first (from Hans) and do 100% water changes daily. When you get that part right, there's plenty of time to think about tank mates
4. yes, you'll have to quarantine the tank mates - including tetras, corys, plecos, rams, etc. Don't buy these if you're not prepared to quarantine.
5. LFS most often run on central systems, so the discus tank is at 75F. Not good. They also seldom feed their fish because water quality is far more important to the store owner. Such a system brings every imaginable pathogen in contact with discus that are hungry, stressed from shipping and kept in sub-optimal conditions.

Discus are not easy to keep. Give yourself a fighting chance by starting with high quality stock.

Willie

[William1]

I will chime in, although somewhat a newbie. Buying good stock fish is the best thing you can do to have a good experience keeping discus fish.

[Ryan925]

I will chime in, although somewhat a newbie. Buying good stock fish is the best thing you can do to have a good experience keeping discus fish.

I second that. Cut out the middle man. Buy from the source. You can't go wrong with reputable SD sponsors. You will know exactly what you are getting and where you fish came from and eliminate any possible errors made by your LFS in the meantime.

[BinaryRun]

I would caution you against buying discus at LFS. Concerns are

1. they buy discus from many sources. Bringing them together also brings together all the pathogens. They say that they import from Stendker, but do they do that exclusively?
2. if you're in the US, Discus Hans is Stendker's exclusive distributor - so their fish would have come from him. Order from Hans directly - he's got good stuff. Your LFS did not import their discus from Stendker, Hans did.
3. if you want to be successful with discus, get the discus first (from Hans) and do 100% water changes daily. When you get that part right, there's plenty of time to think about tank mates
4. yes, you'll have to quarantine the tank mates - including tetras, corys, plecos, rams, etc. Don't buy these if you're not prepared to quarantine.
5. LFS most often run on central systems, so the discus tank is at 75F. Not good. They also seldom feed their fish because water quality is far more important to the store owner. Such a system brings every imaginable pathogen in contact with discus that are hungry, stressed from shipping and kept in sub-optimal conditions.

Discus are not easy to keep. Give yourself a fighting chance by starting with high quality stock.

Willie

I'm from the Netherlands, don't have access to sponsors. Regardless, they buy from Stendker directly and exclusively. They do have a central system, but that system only runs their discus tanks. They other fish are on separate systems. I have known my LFS for years and I trust them.

I was hoping to get some feedback on the photo's off the fish, thank you for the answer anyways.

[BinaryRun]

Sorry for the double post, but the edit button went missing. Anyways, I got my discus and I asked some of your questions as well as checking their temp. myself. Their discus temp is 82F, they do daily waterchanges and feed them 4 times a day. Got the discus and they are all looking healthy and are curiously exploring the tank.

[Filip]

Sorry for the double post, but the edit button went missing. Anyways, I got my discus and I asked some of your questions as well as checking their temp. myself. Their discus temp is 82F, they do daily waterchanges and feed them 4 times a day. Got the discus and they are all looking healthy and are curiously exploring the tank.

Congrats on your start Binaryrun. Good luck.
Now, some pictures from your discus and a new journal thread of the tank would be great .