New owner, new complete setup. Making changes. Need advice and opinions please

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

I am from South Africa and struggled to get help regarding my discus tank. I bought thew complete setup maybe around 6 months ago.

I recently started to buy plants and making some new changes. My tank is 940 liters with filter tank and top up tank with new water and probably around 850 liters
(224 gallons-if that is correct)

I use R.O water and then add discus trace element and flourish to the water according to new quantity added.

I just need some advice if the setup etc is sufficient and the amount of fish. I also would like to know if I can add more discus and the types of discus I currently have. I bought a 2 discuss from a private owner. One looks in good health but the other one does not look very healthy. You will see them on attached photos, this discus also had a white substance from his belly, but only happened ones and does eat well.

My temperature in 28 degrees Celsius I think about 82 F and the PH is kept at 6.23 and is regulated with CO2.

in the attached photos there will be two pictures of the full tank, one is how it looked before I made the changes. And I think the first one is after the changes with plant etc.

I struggled with the photos, so bare with me. I think they are the correct ones and will add some more to get a clear picture.

Any opinions and advice will be great!!

Thank You all in advance

Regards

Martinus Jansen van Rensburg

[Altum Nut]

Welcome to Simply Discus Martinus :)

There is much to know from your end to offer a valuable opinion besides loving that tank size.
- Why are you using R/O?
- I'm thinking you had tank running for 6 months?
- Were all other fish in tank before adding new Discus?
- How often are you changing water and is it aged or directly from tap?
- What are parameters of water from tap?
- Photos you posted have been tampered with cannot determine conditions other then the one facing us which is extremely thin.
- Yes you are able to add many more Discus but until you have a grasp on the essentials to properly caring for them I would research further in the beginner's sticky.

...Ralph

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi Ralph

Thank you for reply.

I will get back to you soon with information regarding your questions.

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi Ralph

- Why are you using R/O? (BOUGHT THE TANK WITH THE BOESEMANI FISH, ALGEA EATERS AND THE TWO BIGGER DISCUS, PREVIOUS OWNER WAS USING R.O WATER AND SUGGESTED THAT IS WHAT I SHOULD CONTINUE USING)
- I'm thinking you had tank running for 6 months? (YES IT IS BEEN RUNNING FOR 6 MONTHS)
- Were all other fish in tank before adding new Discus? (YES, BEFORE ADDING THE TWO SMALLER DISCUS)
- How often are you changing water and is it aged or directly from tap? (RO WATER RUNS IN TO A SEPARATE TANK, IS TREATED WITH THE TRACE ELEMENTS. WILL REMAIN IN THAT 60 LITER TANK FOR A DAY OR TWO AND THEN USED WHEN I DO WATER CHANGE, WATER CHANGE I DO TWICE A WEEK MAYBE ABOUT 75 LITER A CHANGE. )
- What are parameters of water from tap? (HAVE NOT TESTED THE PARAMETERS YET, BUT I WILL MAKE A PLAN TO DO SO)
- Photos you posted have been tampered with cannot determine conditions other then the one facing us which is extremely thin.(I WILL REMOVE PHOTOS AND UPLOAD NEW ONES)

[Martinus J.v.R]

I am also using radion lights, but some of the LED lights itself are flashing a red light every now and then. And I cant manage to fix it with acosmart live, the online program. Program seems to not been working. Or I am doing something wrong.

I don't know if you guys ever use the radion lights?

[jmf3460]

Hi Martinus and welcome to Simply Discus. You have a beautiful tank, and those bosemani rainbows are huge and gorgeous! People here in the states would pay big money for such huge and well taken care of bosemani rainbowfish. Your tank is very well suited for the bosemani rainbowfish but not so well suited for the discus. The amount of substrate allows for lots of particles to become trapped, thus polluting the water and creating high nitrates. I suggest you up your water changes to daily, and perhaps (depending on your water parameters out of tap) discontinue the RO water and just to regular water changes from aged tap water. If you want to have big fully grown discus, you may try putting them in a bare bottom tank with huge daily water changes until they are at least 5" then adding them back. Your discus may grow in your tank as is, but its hard to grow quality discus in a tank with substrate.

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

Jaclyn, thank you for the comment.

Can I reduce the amount of substrate to able to keep the plants happy and the discus?

[jmf3460]

Hi

Jaclyn, thank you for the comment.

Can I reduce the amount of substrate to able to keep the plants happy and the discus?

The best thing you can do is remove all substrate and go either barebottom or with a thin layer of sand. You can still have your plants just put them in glass jars or little pots. Lots of people have potted planted tanks for their discus. It is a compromise of both a planted tank and discus tank.

[Filip]

I agree with everything said above and i second Jacklyn's opinion.
I would switch to sand and put a one inch layer only to cover the glass of the tank . Plants can fit in pots like some of them already are and pots can be easily camouflaged with the decor you have all around the tank .It would be a big step towards discus health and wellbeing and would still have the planted community tank look you like to have .

Here is mine right now overly planted tank with only a one inch sand bottom and pots all around , just to encourage you that it is achievable.

100202

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

I have added some more pictures.

The one pic shows a sample of my substrate, I assume the nature of the sand material is different to my substrate, that is why you suggest to remove all of it and add the thin layer of sand. Just planted everything so what I will do is measure the amount of nitrates (that is the main reason for the advice) and if it looks good then for a start just reduce the thickness of the existing substrate.

The other picture shows a white patch on the face of the red discus, does anyone know what that is? Some parasite maybe or just discoloration?

I still need to identify the strain of the discus?

Thank You

[Filip]

Its not about material of sand or gravel , but its about the capacity of the material to catch and trap debris and crud in it .
Sand has much smaller grain size and thus it is much more compact and do not let debris and crud collects in it. That's why it is mor advisable than coarse gravel.

And its not all about nitrates . You can have good ppm measuring of nitrates and still sick discus like the one you have right now. Bacterial count of the water is not measurable and it affect and compromises discus immune system. That's why we change water very often and regularly clean the bottom of the tank along with the filter materials.

I think that discus on your pics are a red turquoise and a Marlboro discus a pigeon blood strain.
Red Marlboro on the picture looks like it has some kind of wound or a hole on his head covered with fungus (the white coating on the wound).

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

Okay thank you, I will for now then increase my wc and will resuce the gravel to a minimum to still accommodate some of the plants and keep it clean.

[Martinus J.v.R]

reduce.... not resuce

[Filip]

Hi

Okay thank you, I will for now then increase my wc and will resuce the gravel to a minimum to still accommodate some of the plants and keep it clean.

You can pot some plants in a nutrient plant soil to accommodate them and leave the rest area with very thin layer of gravel or better yet 0.5-1 inch sand.

[Kyla]

really go nuts when u start removing that gravel, dont be conservative, it is a super thick thick layer in some areas and u want to take that way down as much as u can. if the gravel bed has been undisturbed for 6 months i also worry about removing it while the fish are present and the risk of releasing toxic gasses into the water column... so much debris collects in there u would be surprised. when i finally removed the substrate in my tank the water was just gross - i was blown away by how much junk was in around the roots of my plants even tho i regularly siphoned the upper layer of my substrate.

i'd remove the fish to a separate bucket wirh an airstone and strip the tank totally, remove everything, then pot the plants and place them back in the tank, either leaving the majority of the bottom bare or going with a thin layer of sand. my plants really liked the pots, which surprised me, and the BB floor of my tank was so much cleaner it was like night and day.

i eventually removed all my plants and ive recently added some sand back and even this new very thin layer traps debris. gotta be very diligent with the siphoning to keep it clean and its still never as clean as BB.

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi Kyla

I only have the 4 discus in the tank, so if I work on the one side they can relax on the other side of the tank. Lots of space....

I did start to remove some substrate, and I will remove bit by bit tomorrow I will continue and Tuesday I will post n photo. I am not to concerned of releasing toxins in to the water column because I keep the substrate as clean as possible but is is so thick and is a lot of work. So I am very excited to remove most of it

At the back of my tank I will do a total BB and in the front I will remain with some substrate.

Send a photo of your tank if possible, thank you for advice.

[Martinus J.v.R]

And Filip, yes I will definitely pot some plants. it is gonna look a lot different very soon. If I pot the plant, I will need to provide the plants with some sort of tissue or material? And is it better to use a porous pot or closed with enriched plant gravel?

[Kyla]

Hi Kyla

I only have the 4 discus in the tank, so if I work on the one side they can relax on the other side of the tank. Lots of space....

I did start to remove some substrate, and I will remove bit by bit tomorrow I will continue and Tuesday I will post n photo. I am not to concerned of releasing toxins in to the water column because I keep the substrate as clean as possible but is is so thick and is a lot of work. So I am very excited to remove most of it

At the back of my tank I will do a total BB and in the front I will remain with some substrate.

Send a photo of your tank if possible, thank you for advice.

this is a before & after contrast showing how much my tank has changed. i made a stubborn but steady progression from a tank with deep, filthy substrate and plants to a thin layer of pool filter sand and spider wood. the fish are much happier now.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/kylasfish/Mobile%20Uploads/F05A336E-FCD4-447B-A95E-75E3068BA1DA_zpsin7r86hs.jpeg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/kylasfish/media/Mobile%20Uploads/F05A336E-FCD4-447B-A95E-75E3068BA1DA_zpsin7r86hs.jpeg.html)

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

The gravel has not been undisturbed for 6 months, I keep it as clean as possible so I am not to worried about the toxins and will do a small section at a time.. But is takes a lot of time and effort. That is why I am excited to remove most of it as you guys said. When I pot the plants is it necessary to have a porous pot, like the one the come in when you buy them?

Because I will need to go buy some pots today?

The back of the tank I will change to BB and only potted plants, and in the front I will have some plants in thin layers of substrate and small potted ones.

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

Yes, and the tank looks very nice... I typed another reply... thought the previous one disappeared.

New to this forum, still learning. Never been any any forum. I find it really helpful

[Quintin]

Hi martinus. I'm also from Sa. We doing another tony tan shipment end of month if u interested.

[Kyla]

i removed my gravel using a net and yes it was definitely a bit of work for sure! but u r on the right track :) it is good u have been keepig ur gravel bed clean. what u r doing now will improve their water quality even more. hopefully u see an improvement in ur fish as i did (and as many others do when they remove gravel). i am concerned about the skinny discus pic u posted above, the one with a slim forehead. hopefully he bounces back. even the cleanest gravel beds harbour organic waste. ultimately, reducing the depth of ur gravel should also make it easier to maintain

some ppl use regular clay pots for their plants. i have seen others use a mesh bag material which allows the roots to spread more naturally. i ended up going with glass pots from my local dollar store, they were some kind of decorative candle holder but i liked the look of them and they came in various sizes and shapes with flat bottoms so they would sit nicely against the glass. even though the plants were root-bound in the pots they still grew like crazy. when i removed the jungle val it was taller than me! here is a pic from right after i removed all my gravel and potted most of the plants in the glass holders.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/kylasfish/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsrm26wbqx.jpg (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/kylasfish/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsrm26wbqx.jpg.html)

[Filip]

Hi

The gravel has not been undisturbed for 6 months, I keep it as clean as possible so I am not to worried about the toxins and will do a small section at a time.. But is takes a lot of time and effort. That is why I am excited to remove most of it as you guys said. When I pot the plants is it necessary to have a porous pot, like the one the come in when you buy them?

Because I will need to go buy some pots today?

The back of the tank I will change to BB and only potted plants, and in the front I will have some plants in thin layers of substrate and small potted ones.

I use rich nutrient plant soil capped with sand for my pots . I use common PVC plastic glass cut in half and drill a couple of holes on the bottom for roots to procede growing outside a bit . As long as the rest of the tank is clean and clear you can accommodate plants with a plant nutrient soil.

Here are my tiny pots just for example.

100299

100300

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi Quintin

I am in Pretoria, can you provide me with more details regarding the shipment?

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

That look great. I will visit the local pottery close buy to buy some small clay pots and the replant all the plants before I continue to clean out the gravel. When the plants are still planted in the gravel it is nearly impossible to get rid of most of the gravel.

[Martinus J.v.R]

I use rich nutrient plant soil capped with sand for my pots . I use common PVC plastic glass cut in half and drill a couple of holes on the bottom for roots to procede growing outside a bit . As long as the rest of the tank is clean and clear you can accommodate plants with a plant nutrient soil.

Here are my tiny pots just for example.

100299

100300

Yes, I know exactly what I need to do know. Let me get to work!

[Filip]

Just be carefull with disturbing that thick undisturbed layer of substrate. Taking discus out in a bucket or a tank with just an airstone and a heater while performing the task would be your safest bet IMO.
Good luck and please post some updates afterwards :-) .

[Martinus J.v.R]

Updates will follow as soon as I am done!!

Thank ppl

[jmf3460]

I use shot glasses and jelly jars for potted plants OP.

[Kyla]

and a heads-up that removing the gravel may result in a loss of some beneficial bacteria that may have been living on the surface of the gravel - so keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite levels and keep up with regular water changes after the grael removal, to ensure there are no spikes in ur parameters and that BB have time to grow back if needed

[Martinus J.v.R]

I use shot glasses and jelly jars for potted plants OP.

Great idea may use some myself.

[Martinus J.v.R]

Will do..!

[Filip]

Great idea may use some myself.

I also prefere tranparent pots for planting , because it allows me to observe the root growth.

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

Still busy with removing gravel.

But I am also busy to set up another small tank for some young 6 - 7 cm (about 2.5 inches) discus. Just a few short questions...

The tank will be set up with R.O water because the fish will be moved to the large tank when they are big enough, and that tank consists of R.O water.

But I need to know if some external filter will be necessary? Because it will be a BB tank, that will remain clean and will have regular water changes?

Thus is a heater and an air stone sufficient?

[Kyla]

even with daily water changes i would feel safer with a sponge filter or hang-on-back filter etc, some kind of filter which moves water over media so the beneficial bacteria has sufficient surface area to colonize and grow. Some beneficial bacteria will grow on the flat tank walls of a bare bottom tank but they may not have enough area to grow in sufficient numbers to keep the water parameters safe. daily wc may remove toxins but because the fish constantly produce ammonia it will build up between wc, perhaps to levels that may harm the fish? thus having a filter will ensure the ammonia is consumed by the BB as fast as it is produced in the tank

[Filip]

Like Kyla said , you must have filter .
Sponges , HOB , canister , anything will do , as long as you have beneficial bacteria established in it .

In order to maintain sufficient water quality and prevent ammonia build up in a discus tank w/o any filter , you will have to do 3 x 100 WCs a day , or better yet 100 % after every meal .I think some asian discus farms do that .

[Martinus J.v.R]

Okay 100% wc not possible, do have an old never used external filter that I might get working. But it makes sense regarding the BB

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

I just found my large Boesemani has died, with a white substance out of his stomach. Concerned for all other fish. Please see attached photo if you can give me advice?

[jmf3460]

that looks like a parasite. get the fish and white worm like thing out now!!!

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

Removed it from the tank immediately this morning, went to the VET got the appropriate antibiotics and medicine and treatment of tank started already.

[jmf3460]

what did you get, what medications are you using.

[Martinus J.v.R]

Metronidazole (Trichazole) about 12mg/liter and Panacur

[Dhavalsp]

HI Martinus, I am not sure if the gravel is out or you are treating the whole tank with ravel in it....one thinkg with metronidazole treatment, you have to siphon the bottom very thoroughly to get the parasites completely out of the tank after treatment...if you are doing this with gravel it will difficult (I would say impossible)......
if at all possible, this is the time to remove all fish in a separate tank/container, start treatment and do large WCs...in the mean time get working on removing that gravel...good luck man!

[Filip]

Hi

Removed it from the tank immediately this morning, went to the VET got the appropriate antibiotics and medicine and treatment of tank started already.

I'm curious did the VET put the fish or the white hex like poop under the microscope to identify the imposter?
Was the VET exact about what you are dealing with here, like a name of the parasite / flagellates or whatever this is ?

P.s. Dhavals advice couldn't be more right than this .
Now its the right time to treat the fish in a barebotom QT tank , and redo the whole display tank while you treat your fish in a quarantine .

[jmf3460]

Now its the right time to treat the fish in a barebotom QT tank , and redo the whole display tank while you treat your fish in a quarantine .

+1+1+1+1

[Martinus J.v.R]

I am also busy to stop with the RO water, building a mechanism that will filter 300 liters of water through carbon and Zeolite. Will also put some filter material, very excited for this. Will post photos as soon as I am done.

The VET only looked at a picture and it was classified as flagellates

[Martinus J.v.R]

What is allowable TDS levels according to you?

[Akili]

Hi

Still busy with removing gravel.

But I am also busy to set up another small tank for some young 6 - 7 cm (about 2.5 inches) discus. Just a few short questions...

The tank will be set up with R.O water because the fish will be moved to the large tank when they are big enough, and that tank consists of R.O water.

But I need to know if some external filter will be necessary? Because it will be a BB tank, that will remain clean and will have regular water changes?

Thus is a heater and an air stone sufficient?Young 6 - 7 cm (about 2.5 inches) discus do not need to raised in R.O water,Aged Tap water should be fine.

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi Everyone

Just finished the tank, will post some pictures tonight or tomorrow. I think it came out great and happy that I did the hard work because an the end of September 9 new discus will arrive and will have a lovely home!

Thank you for all the assistance

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi

Eventually I am done... Everything is now in order new fish arrived from Malaysia and going strong...

Thank you for all the assistance... Here is a couple of quick pics I took just now.

Martinus

[Martinus J.v.R]

:D

[jmf3460]

IMO the discus are not the best looking fish in this tank, the bosemani are the real STUNNERS!!!

[Martinus J.v.R]

Thanx

The small discus I am sure will grow out very nicely... The are Tony Tan discus and still very young..

[Martinus J.v.R]

Hi See attached link to my video of my tank.

Thanks all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmAlXkWIs7w

[jmf3460]

OP what a transformation!!!!!!!!!! The Discus look great and so much bigger. Look how much of a change it made removing all that substrate. Your new set up looks fantastic.

[Clawhammer]

Wow! I echo Jacklyn's comments, what a great transformation! Beautiful tank!

[jmf3460]

bosemani's are no longer king of the tank in this situation

[Martinus J.v.R]

Thanks was a great experience and learned a lot the past year