New to Discus New to Fish. Should I not attempt Discus?

[Deus]

Growing up my father had tanks with Dempsies and Oscars. My grandfather had about 30+ tanks and did fish shows etc. I (44) however have never had fish. When I saw Discus on line I fell in Love. I am honest about my available time and although I can work from home I usually do not. I do not have the time to do daily water changes. I did come across the Refugium systems that seem to reduce the need for water changes. I have well water also that runs through a water filtration/softener/uv system I had installed.
I can handle a couple of times a week for water changes but I do not see my availability changing at anytime in the future, am I at a loss or can I still be a responsible owner?

Thank you

[pitdogg2]

Buy quality adult fish from a discus seller here and you may get away with fewer water changes. In all honesty Discus need clean water, water changes are a must and nothing I found while keeping them is going to reduce that need. Welcome to Simply Discus and good luck in your endeavor.

[Deus]

This was the video that seemed to indicate the need for fewer water changes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqdrtVYBQDY

[Keith Perkins]

Adult discus require less care than younger ones do. If you can commit to two very large water changes a week with adults you can succeed. There are a couple very good stickies in the beginners about setting up your first discus tank. They will probably push for more WCs than 2 a week, and truthfully that is better even for adults, but you can do successfully do it.

[discuspaul]

Welcome to Simply,
To be a responsible discus-keeper, you need to start by doing your homework first - suggest you can accomplish that by spending some time not only reading the Stickies in the Discus Basics for Beginners section, but spending a few weeks reading many of the posts and replies on the forum.
Then, when you feel comfortable with what you've learned, and given your timetable for doing water changes, don't start with anything other than adult or near adult discus obtained from a fully reliable, experienced source for supplying good quality fish (see the forum's sponsors section for the list of names in this category).
There are no shortcuts to fresh water changes for growing out young discus without stunting them, so don't count on any types of filtration or any other equipment or methodology to mitigate that element.
There are no easy approaches to raising discus properly and successfully.

Best of luck to you.

[pitdogg2]

I wished I had a dollar every time that video gets referenced. Plants do not take all the waste metabolites that only water changes take out. If you get good quality stock and go bare bottom and do 75-90% water changes twice a week you could have success. Of course that depends on what you feed and how much you feed. There are many variables here.

[Akili]

Welcome to SimplyDiscus, and this hobby,There are many who have setups where they do water changes every second day and it works fine for them. I recommend you go through the stickies’ in the Beginners Section and watch this video
https://youtu.be/VXe3VKh7qF8 it is about an hour and half long but worth hours of information
P.S. A must read thread form the beginner section http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86009-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus
After this if you have questions feel free to post them and I sure someone will help you out.

[Deus]

I am going to go through the stickies again and I will ask more questions. I came for for all the great experience that I know exists here. I have been lurking for some time. Understanding this I have a question about the video I linked to and I do not doubt the info I am being given, just trying to understand the missing variable.

The person stated that they didn't have to do the water changes often, was this an untruthful plug or was he leaving out something?..or was I missing something. Just curious.

[Keith Perkins]

I'm at work so can't see the video, but if they had discus in it and made that claim it was just an untruthful plug. Different systems might make MINOR differences, but an extra WC a week with discus will do more.

[Filip]

You can go understocked and buy 6 grown ups in a >100 G tank . That would alleviate the need of daily Wcs , and propably you might get away with 1-2 weekly >50% Wcs .
Bare bottom is the safest way , but if you like display tank it would be advisable to go with just a thin layer of sand and very little decoration and plants .
If you really like this fish, i think that youll get the discus bug very soon and you will be motivated to do more and more maintenance as a time goes by.
And about the video i personnaly dont belive in it , because i tried heavily planted discus tank with less WCs before for a couple of years and it was just not maintanable .

[Deus]

You can go understocked and buy 6 grown ups in a >100 G tank . That would alleviate the need of daily Wcs , and propably you might get away with 1-2 weekly >50% Wcs .
Bare bottom is the safest way , but if you like display tank it would be advisable to go with just a thin layer of sand and very little decoration and plants .
If you really like this fish, i think that youll get the discus bug very soon and you will be motivated to do more and more maintenance as a time goes by.
And about the video i personnaly dont belive in it , because i tried heavily planted discus tank with less WCs before for a couple of years and it was just not maintanable .

Thank you. I was thinking 100G and about 4-5.
I'm glad I checked, there are a couple of other videos like this and the thing they have in common is that they are sellers.

[Neptune]

In defense of the video, if you listen to what he says in the beginning is that he does recommend DAILY WC's at home, but he doesn't have time to do that so he goes on to explain how he has adults and a refugium that allows him to get away with it. He doesn't really recommend this for home hobbyists if you listen carefully at the beginning.

I think a lot of newbies miss this because they want to hear the shortcuts that work for this guy.

[discuspaul]

In defense of the video, if you listen to what he says in the beginning is that he does recommend DAILY WC's at home, but he doesn't have time to do that so he goes on to explain how he has adults and a refugium that allows him to get away with it. He doesn't really recommend this for home hobbyists if you listen carefully at the beginning.

I think a lot of newbies miss this because they want to hear the shortcuts that work for this guy.


You have thoughtfully pointed out what one should be truly listening for in this video, rather than just 'hearing' what one wants to hear about how easy it might be to "do it right".

[pitdogg2]

In defense of the video, if you listen to what he says in the beginning is that he does recommend DAILY WC's at home, but he doesn't have time to do that so he goes on to explain how he has adults and a refugium that allows him to get away with it. He doesn't really recommend this for home hobbyists if you listen carefully at the beginning.

I think a lot of newbies miss this because they want to hear the shortcuts that work for this guy.
You are correct but everytime I have seen it referenced it is because they hear what they want to hear. Do this and there's little need to change water. 28 Years ago I only changed water once a month and it was only 25% at most. I grew a very large Brown Discus but that is more a testament to that was one very hardy Discus and I was very very lucky. It was kept in a 30 gal. AQ with 2"+ of gravel with 2 large sword plants and I never cleaned the gravel because it was bad for plant roots. I only fed two foods Wardleys flakes and Tetra bits. By all accounts that fish should never of survived.

[Deus]

At the same time though ... He does it successfully. I could have left it at that but I did seek, here, more information. I guess my point is in defense of those who reference the video. If they do hear "what sounds good to them" but still move on to ask questions, applaud that they came looking for your knowledge and didn't just move on to possibly hurt these beautiful fish.

Whether he does it successfully or not though, I'm looking for what's best for the fish and I know that information is found here :)

[Filip]

In defense of the video, if you listen to what he says in the beginning is that he does recommend DAILY WC's at home, but he doesn't have time to do that so he goes on to explain how he has adults and a refugium that allows him to get away with it. He doesn't really recommend this for home hobbyists if you listen carefully at the beginning.

I think a lot of newbies miss this because they want to hear the shortcuts that work for this guy.

" I can do it but you better don't " , its a kind of vain explanation and sounds very tempting to replicate , for any new discus keeper who watch this video .
The "Kids don't try this at home" approach triggers exactly the opposite reaction from new discus keepers.

As far as I know all that refigium filters out of the system from the bad stuff are nitrates , and you can easily achieve the same goal with heavily planted fast growing plants tank .
But the main concern in discus keeping is not nitrates but the heterotrophic bacteria and other heterotrophic pathogens that feed on organic matter ( DOCs ) in the tank and that compromises discus immune system and overall discus health.

[Neptune]

At the same time though ... He does it successfully. I could have left it at that but I did seek, here, more information. I guess my point is in defense of those who reference the video. If they do hear "what sounds good to them" but still move on to ask questions, applaud that they came looking for your knowledge and didn't just move on to possibly hurt these beautiful fish.

Whether he does it successfully or not though, I'm looking for what's best for the fish and I know that information is found here :)

Bingo, verify everything! If someone has the silver bullet to WC's and discus keeping...they are selling snakeoil! LOL..

[Redrain]

If you live on a well, you can hook your tank to a drip system. It can reduce or totally eliminate the need of waterchanges.
Here, Joey did a video on it
https://youtu.be/LimJJasPUlo

[DiscusRob]

If you live on a well, you can hook your tank to a drip system. It can reduce or totally eliminate the need of waterchanges.
Here, Joey did a video on it
https://youtu.be/LimJJasPUlo

I live on a well and I would not do a drip system, I keep my Lake Victorian Cichlids in the goo and I change out 50+ percent twice a week, and this is a lightly stocked 75g with an over sized wet/dry for a filter. Stick with large water changes with aged water. Discus are far too sensitive to play with short cuts, listen to the folks here. The other problem with a drip system is you are not really replacing a significant amount of water at a time. You need to remove large qtys of water and replace with fresh aged water.

[Second Hand Pat]

Redrain, if you look around you will find most folks will not recommend a drip system. As Rob pointed out, it simply does not change enough water.
Pat

[William1]

The thing about discus I have discovered after four months of keeping eight wild discus is, not only are they messy fish, in the classic sense of detritus making, but their slime coat they produce is a whole nother thing. I change water twice a day most days. If I blow off two days, which I don't do anymore, there will be a coating of film on the top of the water surface and the fish are clearly not as happy. Just being honest, if you have issues changing water, these fish may not be a good idea to keep. If you figure out a good system, it makes it easier, but the task still needs to done on a very regular basis. Otherwise, you will end up in the disease section, which you don't want to go there, and what is the point of that. To be honest, at times I have questioned if the effort is worth it. Question yourself seriously before jumping in all the way.

[DISCUS STU]

If you've never kept Discus then you might want to start with something a little easier though related like Angels. Keeping them in BB tanks and just getting some experience.

I was keeping some Angels in a 15 gal. tank, thought I try one Discus because the Angels were doing well and upon introducing my first juvenile Brown Discus it immediately went to the surface. After a water and a filter change it was doing much better but I understood right then that these fish require a higher standard of care.

[Redrain]

Redrain, if you look around you will find most folks will not recommend a drip system. As Rob pointed out, it simply does not change enough water.
Pat

even if you set it up to change 50% a day?

[Redrain]

I agree with Stu, if you're new to fish keeping, try less demanding fish like Angels or a community tank with a combination of fish.

[Larry Bugg]

even if you set it up to change 50% a day?

A 50% drip is not the same as a 50% water change. With a 50% water change I take out 50% of the dirty water and replace it with 50% clean water. With a 50% drip you are removing a little of the dirty water and immediately adding a little bit of clean water that mixes with the existing dirty water so the next little bit of dirty water that goes out also includes some of the new clean water. A drip system could work with adults but I definitely would not recommend it for growing out. With a drip you will always have a large amount of dissolved organic compounds in the water which are very bad for young discus.

[DiscusRob]

A 50% drip is not the same as a 50% water change. With a 50% water change I take out 50% of the dirty water and replace it with 50% clean water. With a 50% drip you are removing a little of the dirty water and immediately adding a little bit of clean water that mixes with the existing dirty water so the next little bit of dirty water that goes out also includes some of the new clean water. A drip system could work with adults but I definitely would not recommend it for growing out. With a drip you will always have a large amount of dissolved organic compounds in the water which are very bad for young discus.

++1 Larry

[fishtanktenderfoot]

Hello Deus, I was also a new-to-Discus and new-to-fish novice two years ago when my 7 adults showed up on my doorstep. From my experience and the learning curve I followed, I would recommend this:
1) Buy adults (4.5" or bigger) from a good source
2) Don't mix with any other fish for the for first 5-6 months until you know your discus
3) Keep the tank simple, if you are new to plants, make sure that whatever you do can be undone easily
4) Commit to daily water changes for the first month (30 days, don't skip a day) - you will counteract any problems with a new filter catching up with the bio-load and you will learn how your fish act when they are happy
5) Pay attention when you start to back off the daily routine - since you started off strong, you'll be better able to recognize changes in behavior that will indicate you need to do more WC's

I've had mine for 2 years, and I still do daily. I had it in my mind when I bought them that I could do 3xweek, but I set up my tank for easy WC's, and I just do them. Welcome to Simply!

[Larry Bugg]

Hello Deus, I was also a new-to-Discus and new-to-fish novice two years ago when my 7 adults showed up on my doorstep. From my experience and the learning curve I followed, I would recommend this:
1) Buy adults (4.5" or bigger) from a good source
2) Don't mix with any other fish for the for first 5-6 months until you know your discus
3) Keep the tank simple, if you are new to plants, make sure that whatever you do can be undone easily
4) Commit to daily water changes for the first month (30 days, don't skip a day) - you will counteract any problems with a new filter catching up with the bio-load and you will learn how your fish act when they are happy
5) Pay attention when you start to back off the daily routine - since you started off strong, you'll be better able to recognize changes in behavior that will indicate you need to do more WC's

I've had mine for 2 years, and I still do daily. I had it in my mind when I bought them that I could do 3xweek, but I set up my tank for easy WC's, and I just do them. Welcome to Simply!

Very good response!!

[MD.David]

Larry is correct with his comment about drip water vs water changing.
However I would add that if you really don't have the time you could do a drip but you would have to drip more, maybe 200% a day drip may equal 30-50% actually water change.
Since you are on a well, and depending on what type of water softener system you have this could cause a very large problem with keeping any fish. So find out if your softener system is aquatic safe.
You also could plumb up a water change system like many of us have, it takes me less then 5 mins of time a day to change 90% of my 120gallon tank. I have it plumbed to siphon easy, a few squeezes on my siphon hose and it drains as I go do other things, then I have my aged water already set from the night before in a good grade drum, I just turn a few values hit a switch and it fills the tank and I have only invest 5-8mins a day in changing 90% of the water.
This might be something you might want to look into.


A 50% drip is not the same as a 50% water change. With a 50% water change I take out 50% of the dirty water and replace it with 50% clean water. With a 50% drip you are removing a little of the dirty water and immediately adding a little bit of clean water that mixes with the existing dirty water so the next little bit of dirty water that goes out also includes some of the new clean water. A drip system could work with adults but I definitely would not recommend it for growing out. With a drip you will always have a large amount of dissolved organic compounds in the water which are very bad for young discus.

[Rapture]

I am also new to serious fish keeping, and decided to get discus for the first time recently. When I first started out with them, I changed water every day. I change less and less often as time goes on, and then try to get back on track again. What I mean by this is, if right now you think you have time to change water twice a week, in reality you may end up only changing once a week or less often as many months go by and you find yourself becoming more busy with other things. Although I think that not overstocking, not over feeding, starting with adults, and extra filtration can provide for more room for error in your water chemistry, the better solution is to set up your tank in a way that water changes are very fast and easy, so it is not a chore to do them even when you become more busy.

[William1]

Again, you can set them up as fast and easy as you want, but they have to get done. There is no getting around that .