New in the discus world

[NeonTetra]

Hello!

My questions is: I am ready to put fish in the tank? Or i need to test for more time my water? Why everybody here uses pure amonia for cicle and no bacteria products

I want to raise Discus with the hope of having beatiful fishes :D

Tank Setup Questionarie:
1) I just started into the hobby, i have a 15 gallon aquarium, over 3 months (1 betta-1 colisa lalia- 10 corydoras pigmea) and now i want a discus tank, it is incredible the amount of information in the site and very usefull the search tool :D , i had been registered since june, since then I have not needed post anything, congratulations to the creators of the forum :)
2) As i said i have researched alot in the forum, learning about basics, also i bought 2 kindles guides in amazon.
3) My tank is 95 cm long 50 cm of height and 50 cm of depth, 60 gallons, i want to have 6 discus and make them grow. I mounted my tank and filled up with water. I have been adding bacterias since day 1 (PRODAC Nitridac and then after i used all i started using Microbacter7 of Brightwell)
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4) After 6 days i put some plants (vallisneria natans with substrate, in "pots" (PRODAC FondoVivo), my tank is barebottom
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5) I want to make 1 water change per week of 30 %, i am using a filter for my tap water of 3 stages, first stage it is a propylene filter that traps particles of 5 microns, the second one it is the same but traps particles of 1 micron and the third stage is a activated carbon filter.
6) My filter it is a canister filter (SunSun 303 with UV lighthing: 1400 lts/h) and 2 sponges filter (each one filters 100 lts per hour, or thats what the maker says) my air pump it is a Sera 275 air plus and i have a t5 lamp (sunsun hfl 1000, 4 tubes of 39 watts each), my heater it is an external heater (jebo: 300 wattts) and i have a thermometer.
7) Parameters:
temp: 83 F/tank ph: 7,5/Ph of the water straight out of your tap: 7,5/ammonia reading: 0/nitrite reading: 0/nitrate reading: dont know :(/Well water: No/Municipal water: Yes

Any opinions, comments or question are welcome!

PD: The English it is not my language, so sorry for the grammar mistakes :P

[Bc chick]

I want to start off by saying I love the look of your plants in the little shot glasses. Very nice. I can't comment on the cycling of your tank that's not my expertise so I'll leave that alone. But I have to comment on your water change plans. I'm surprised that after all the research you've been doing that you plan on doing a doing a water change once a week. This is just not good enough. Water changes should be done daily. Some people are under the impression that just because your pH level is good and your nitrates are good in your nitrites are good that all your water is good but that's not the case here is a really good read. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?120956-What-Are-Bioload-and-Biomass-and-Why-They-Are-Important
Also when doing water changes they should be a lot bigger 30% isn't enough most people do 80% some people do up to 100%. when you are growing out juvies some people like to do a quick vacuum after each meal to make sure they get all the excess food off the bottom. The cleaner the water the better the food and multiple feedings a day is the best way to grow out your babies. Also do you know about whether or not you need to age your water. Not only is it good to avoid pH spikes but it also helps with the microbubbles which stress out the fish during water changes. Best practices to age water if at all possible. Hope some of this helps I wish you all the best with your fish and I look forward to seeing some updates.

[jmf3460]

Welcome to Simply Discus OP and first of all I will start by saying that you have done an excellent job researching and starting your very first discus tank. Your English is excellent, your write up was grammatically correct and very easy to read and understand.

I love your set up with the bare bottom (good idea) with the val plants in your little shot glasses, very appealing to the eye and will be easy to keep clean. I do see a few problems with your set up but all are easy to change. First and Foremost your tank is NOT CYCLED at all. You have ammonia but it has not started to transfer over to nitrites yet which will eventually lead to nitrates and that will signal that the cycle has completed. Once you see zero nitrites and zero ammonia with some nitrates, you are ready for discus. I suspect that you have no beneficial bacteria yet to help establish your tank. The bacteria you are dumping into your tank is useless, throw it away and just add ammonia and natural bb will eventually build up. Do you have an area in your filtration for beneficial bacteria such as ceramic stones, or bb balls? That is an issue, you need a beneficial bacteria compartment in your filter, usually it is the last stage of filtration.

Also, your plan for 30% water change per week is simply not going to be enough. If you start with juvenile fish, such as 5" fish or smaller you will need to do 75%+ water change PER DAY. if you do buy adult fish such as 5" fish or larger you will still want to do more than 30% per week, perhaps 30% every other day with adult fish. I have adult discus and I do 33% every other day and daily on the weekends. Discus are just not a fish that will do well with 30% water changes per week, it simply wont work.

Good luck and keep the questions coming.

[Bc chick]

Welcome to Simply Discus OP and first of all I will start by saying that you have done an excellent job researching and starting your very first discus tank. Your English is excellent, your write up was grammatically correct and very easy to read and understand.

I love your set up with the bare bottom (good idea) with the val plants in your little shot glasses, very appealing to the eye and will be easy to keep clean. I do see a few problems with your set up but all are easy to change. First and Foremost your tank is NOT CYCLED at all. You have ammonia but it has not started to transfer over to nitrites yet which will eventually lead to nitrates and that will signal that the cycle has completed. Once you see zero nitrites and zero ammonia with some nitrates, you are ready for discus. I suspect that you have no beneficial bacteria yet to help establish your tank. The bacteria you are dumping into your tank is useless, throw it away and just add ammonia and natural bb will eventually build up. Do you have an area in your filtration for beneficial bacteria such as ceramic stones, or bb balls? That is an issue, you need a beneficial bacteria compartment in your filter, usually it is the last stage of filtration.

Also, your plan for 30% water change per week is simply not going to be enough. If you start with juvenile fish, such as 5" fish or smaller you will need to do 75%+ water change PER DAY. if you do buy adult fish such as 5" fish or larger you will still want to do more than 30% per week, perhaps 30% every other day with adult fish. I have adult discus and I do 33% every other day and daily on the weekends. Discus are just not a fish that will do well with 30% water changes per week, it simply wont work.

Good luck and keep the questions coming.

Cycling always confuses me. I dont understand. If the readings are showing 0, how does he have ammonia ?

[Second Hand Pat]

I think the problem here is NeonTetra has added a bacteria culture but is not feeding it. If you do not feed your bacteria culture it dies.

NeonTetra, welcome to Simply and please, read up on doing a fishless cycle.
Pat

[Bc chick]

Yes i understood that part. Im just wondering how you come to the conclusion there is ammonia in a tank when the reading is 0. Is it hidden where a test wont pick up?

[Second Hand Pat]

Yes i understood that part. Im just wondering how you come to the conclusion there is ammonia in a tank when the reading is 0. Is it hidden where a test wont pick up?

I did not come to that conclusion and why I mention the bacteria culture is most like dead. If you research a fishless cycle you will see that you need to add pure ammonia (without surfactants) to feed the bacteria culture or start the bacteria from scratch.
Pat

[Bc chick]

Sorry i meant jmf3460 came to that conclusion.

[Akili]

Sorry i meant jmf3460 came to that conclusion.

OP mentions his ammonia reading as 7.5


Hello!


7) Parameters:
temp: 83 F/tank ph: 7,5/Ph of the water straight out of your tap: 7,5/ammonia reading: 0/nitrite reading: 0/nitrate reading: dont know :(/Well water: No/Municipal water: Yes

Any opinions, comments or question are welcome!

PD: The English it is not my language, so sorry for the grammar mistakes :P

[Keith Perkins]

7) Parameters:
temp: 83 F/tank ph: 7,5/Ph of the water straight out of your tap: 7,5/ammonia reading: 0/nitrite reading: 0/nitrate reading: dont know :(/Well water: No/Municipal water: Yes




OP mentions his ammonia reading as 7.5

No, OP said his Ph of the water straight out of tap was 7.5 and ammonia was 0.

[Bc chick]

Oh ok i see the confusion

[Larry Bugg]

NeonTetra , there are a couple of issues with your plan and where you are currently at. Others have talked about these above but let me take a stab at it.

I won't say the product you are using to establish good bacteria is junk. I don't really know about the product. I do however know that there are products on the market that do indeed jump-start the cycle process by inserting bacteria into the tank. What I think you don't understand is that as Pat said, you have to feed the bacteria after you put it in the tank or it will die. The product is supposed to be added to the tank right before adding the fish. Then the fish create waste which the bacteria feed on. You do need to be very careful when using a product like this to make sure it is doing it's job. Once you add the product and then the fish you should be testing regularly to make sure there is no ammonia and no nitrites in the water. You should however see nitrates if the cycle is working properly.

The second issue concerns water changes. Your plan for doing a 30% water change weekly is absolutely not a good plan for keeping discus. How much water you need to change will be determined with what age/size discus you plan on getting. The requirement for young growing discus and adult discus are very different. If you have already done some research here then you should already be aware of this. Young growing discus (under 4" to 4.5") require very clean water if they are to grow to their full potential. If you are starting with discus that need to grow then my recommendation is to be doing daily water changes of 50% minimum but my preference would be to see you doing 75% to 100% daily. If you do start out with young discus and don't do daily water changes then you will end up with stunted discus that likely won't reach the 4" mark and they are likely to end up being sick along the way. If your plan is to start out with young adult to adult discus then you don't have to do large daily water changes as some would suggest. As Jacklyn suggested I think you could do 30% every other day and be just fine.

Bottom line - if you cannot commit to doing more than 30% a week then you are setting yourself up for failure and should really consider keeping some other kind of fish.

[NeonTetra]

I want to start off by saying I love the look of your plants in the little shot glasses. Very nice. I can't comment on the cycling of your tank that's not my expertise so I'll leave that alone. But I have to comment on your water change plans. I'm surprised that after all the research you've been doing that you plan on doing a doing a water change once a week. This is just not good enough. Water changes should be done daily. Some people are under the impression that just because your pH level is good and your nitrates are good in your nitrites are good that all your water is good but that's not the case here is a really good read. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?120956-What-Are-Bioload-and-Biomass-and-Why-They-Are-Important
Also when doing water changes they should be a lot bigger 30% isn't enough most people do 80% some people do up to 100%. when you are growing out juvies some people like to do a quick vacuum after each meal to make sure they get all the excess food off the bottom. The cleaner the water the better the food and multiple feedings a day is the best way to grow out your babies. Also do you know about whether or not you need to age your water. Not only is it good to avoid pH spikes but it also helps with the microbubbles which stress out the fish during water changes. Best practices to age water if at all possible. Hope some of this helps I wish you all the best with your fish and I look forward to seeing some updates.

Thank you for the shot glasses coment :D, now i understand that i need to do water changes more frequently and bigger to have happy and healthy fish! Thank you for your feedback :)


Welcome to Simply Discus OP and first of all I will start by saying that you have done an excellent job researching and starting your very first discus tank. Your English is excellent, your write up was grammatically correct and very easy to read and understand.

I love your set up with the bare bottom (good idea) with the val plants in your little shot glasses, very appealing to the eye and will be easy to keep clean. I do see a few problems with your set up but all are easy to change. First and Foremost your tank is NOT CYCLED at all. You have ammonia but it has not started to transfer over to nitrites yet which will eventually lead to nitrates and that will signal that the cycle has completed. Once you see zero nitrites and zero ammonia with some nitrates, you are ready for discus. I suspect that you have no beneficial bacteria yet to help establish your tank. The bacteria you are dumping into your tank is useless, throw it away and just add ammonia and natural bb will eventually build up. Do you have an area in your filtration for beneficial bacteria such as ceramic stones, or bb balls? That is an issue, you need a beneficial bacteria compartment in your filter, usually it is the last stage of filtration.

Also, your plan for 30% water change per week is simply not going to be enough. If you start with juvenile fish, such as 5" fish or smaller you will need to do 75%+ water change PER DAY. if you do buy adult fish such as 5" fish or larger you will still want to do more than 30% per week, perhaps 30% every other day with adult fish. I have adult discus and I do 33% every other day and daily on the weekends. Discus are just not a fish that will do well with 30% water changes per week, it simply wont work.

Good luck and keep the questions coming.

Thank you for that warm welcome :D, i have ceramic in the canister filter (1kg).
After reading all the coments of this thread its clear to me how much and how many times i need to change my water.
For my surprise in my country it's forbidden to sell pure amonia :huh:, you only can buy it in big quantities for industry process, but i have an uncle (lucky me) that works in a factory that has pure amonia, so i will get it tomorrow and start feeding my poor bb hahaha.
Now i understand why every store of aquarium in my country when i asked them about the process of cycling with amonia no one understand what i was talking about,that's why they only sell bb in botles...
Thank you for your feedback


I think the problem here is NeonTetra has added a bacteria culture but is not feeding it. If you do not feed your bacteria culture it dies.

NeonTetra, welcome to Simply and please, read up on doing a fishless cycle.
Pat

Exactly, now i need to buy amonia and start feeding them!
Thanks for you answer


NeonTetra , there are a couple of issues with your plan and where you are currently at. Others have talked about these above but let me take a stab at it.

I won't say the product you are using to establish good bacteria is junk. I don't really know about the product. I do however know that there are products on the market that do indeed jump-start the cycle process by inserting bacteria into the tank. What I think you don't understand is that as Pat said, you have to feed the bacteria after you put it in the tank or it will die. The product is supposed to be added to the tank right before adding the fish. Then the fish create waste which the bacteria feed on. You do need to be very careful when using a product like this to make sure it is doing it's job. Once you add the product and then the fish you should be testing regularly to make sure there is no ammonia and no nitrites in the water. You should however see nitrates if the cycle is working properly.

The second issue concerns water changes. Your plan for doing a 30% water change weekly is absolutely not a good plan for keeping discus. How much water you need to change will be determined with what age/size discus you plan on getting. The requirement for young growing discus and adult discus are very different. If you have already done some research here then you should already be aware of this. Young growing discus (under 4" to 4.5") require very clean water if they are to grow to their full potential. If you are starting with discus that need to grow then my recommendation is to be doing daily water changes of 50% minimum but my preference would be to see you doing 75% to 100% daily. If you do start out with young discus and don't do daily water changes then you will end up with stunted discus that likely won't reach the 4" mark and they are likely to end up being sick along the way. If your plan is to start out with young adult to adult discus then you don't have to do large daily water changes as some would suggest. As Jacklyn suggested I think you could do 30% every other day and be just fine.

Bottom line - if you cannot commit to doing more than 30% a week then you are setting yourself up for failure and should really consider keeping some other kind of fish.

I can commit with that, i will follow your advice of testing regulary the parameters, for me is now crystal clear that i need to do big and frequently water changes, i read one post in the forum that says "we care about water, fishes care about themselves
Thank you for your feedback, very very helpful

[NeonTetra]

I want to start off by saying I love the look of your plants in the little shot glasses. Very nice. I can't comment on the cycling of your tank that's not my expertise so I'll leave that alone. But I have to comment on your water change plans. I'm surprised that after all the research you've been doing that you plan on doing a doing a water change once a week. This is just not good enough. Water changes should be done daily. Some people are under the impression that just because your pH level is good and your nitrates are good in your nitrites are good that all your water is good but that's not the case here is a really good read. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?120956-What-Are-Bioload-and-Biomass-and-Why-They-Are-Important
Also when doing water changes they should be a lot bigger 30% isn't enough most people do 80% some people do up to 100%. when you are growing out juvies some people like to do a quick vacuum after each meal to make sure they get all the excess food off the bottom. The cleaner the water the better the food and multiple feedings a day is the best way to grow out your babies. Also do you know about whether or not you need to age your water. Not only is it good to avoid pH spikes but it also helps with the microbubbles which stress out the fish during water changes. Best practices to age water if at all possible. Hope some of this helps I wish you all the best with your fish and I look forward to seeing some updates.

Thank you for the shot glasses coment :D, now i understand that i need to do water changes more frequently and bigger to have happy and healthy fish! Thank you for your feedback :)


Welcome to Simply Discus OP and first of all I will start by saying that you have done an excellent job researching and starting your very first discus tank. Your English is excellent, your write up was grammatically correct and very easy to read and understand.

I love your set up with the bare bottom (good idea) with the val plants in your little shot glasses, very appealing to the eye and will be easy to keep clean. I do see a few problems with your set up but all are easy to change. First and Foremost your tank is NOT CYCLED at all. You have ammonia but it has not started to transfer over to nitrites yet which will eventually lead to nitrates and that will signal that the cycle has completed. Once you see zero nitrites and zero ammonia with some nitrates, you are ready for discus. I suspect that you have no beneficial bacteria yet to help establish your tank. The bacteria you are dumping into your tank is useless, throw it away and just add ammonia and natural bb will eventually build up. Do you have an area in your filtration for beneficial bacteria such as ceramic stones, or bb balls? That is an issue, you need a beneficial bacteria compartment in your filter, usually it is the last stage of filtration.

Also, your plan for 30% water change per week is simply not going to be enough. If you start with juvenile fish, such as 5" fish or smaller you will need to do 75%+ water change PER DAY. if you do buy adult fish such as 5" fish or larger you will still want to do more than 30% per week, perhaps 30% every other day with adult fish. I have adult discus and I do 33% every other day and daily on the weekends. Discus are just not a fish that will do well with 30% water changes per week, it simply wont work.

Good luck and keep the questions coming.

Thank you for that warm welcome :D, i have ceramic in the canister filter (1kg).
After reading all the coments of this thread its clear to me how much and how many times i need to change my water.
For my surprise in my country it's forbidden to sell pure amonia :huh:, you only can buy it in big quantities for industry process, but i have an uncle (lucky me) that works in a factory that has pure amonia, so i will get it tomorrow and start feeding my poor bb hahaha.
Now i understand why every store of aquarium in my country when i asked them about the process of cycling with amonia no one understand what i was talking about,that's why they only sell bb in bottles...
Thank you for your feedback


NeonTetra , there are a couple of issues with your plan and where you are currently at. Others have talked about these above but let me take a stab at it.

I won't say the product you are using to establish good bacteria is junk. I don't really know about the product. I do however know that there are products on the market that do indeed jump-start the cycle process by inserting bacteria into the tank. What I think you don't understand is that as Pat said, you have to feed the bacteria after you put it in the tank or it will die. The product is supposed to be added to the tank right before adding the fish. Then the fish create waste which the bacteria feed on. You do need to be very careful when using a product like this to make sure it is doing it's job. Once you add the product and then the fish you should be testing regularly to make sure there is no ammonia and no nitrites in the water. You should however see nitrates if the cycle is working properly.

The second issue concerns water changes. Your plan for doing a 30% water change weekly is absolutely not a good plan for keeping discus. How much water you need to change will be determined with what age/size discus you plan on getting. The requirement for young growing discus and adult discus are very different. If you have already done some research here then you should already be aware of this. Young growing discus (under 4" to 4.5") require very clean water if they are to grow to their full potential. If you are starting with discus that need to grow then my recommendation is to be doing daily water changes of 50% minimum but my preference would be to see you doing 75% to 100% daily. If you do start out with young discus and don't do daily water changes then you will end up with stunted discus that likely won't reach the 4" mark and they are likely to end up being sick along the way. If your plan is to start out with young adult to adult discus then you don't have to do large daily water changes as some would suggest. As Jacklyn suggested I think you could do 30% every other day and be just fine.

Bottom line - if you cannot commit to doing more than 30% a week then you are setting yourself up for failure and should really consider keeping some other kind of fish.

i am prepared to commit with the water changes :D so there is no problem with that at all, now i understand that i need to do larger and more regular water changes, also i will check parameters every day so i can check progress of my beneficial bacteria, thank you for your feedback and wisdom :D

[jmf3460]

temp: 83 F/tank ph: 7,5/Ph of the water straight out of your tap: 7,5/ammonia reading: 0/nitrite reading: 0/nitrate reading: dont know /Well water: No/Municipal water: Yes

Keith, I see an ammonia reading at 7.5 as I read this. OP puts the numbers first in his readings, (temp 83, ph 7.5, ammonia 7.5, nitrites and nitrates at 0) so right now he has no cycle, and it has not begun.

[Larry Bugg]

temp: 83 F/tank ph: 7,5/Ph of the water straight out of your tap: 7,5/ammonia reading: 0/nitrite reading: 0/nitrate reading: dont know /Well water: No/Municipal water: Yes

Keith, I see an ammonia reading at 7.5 as I read this. OP puts the numbers first in his readings, (temp 83, ph 7.5, ammonia 7.5, nitrites and nitrates at 0) so right now he has no cycle, and it has not begun.

Nope, look at it again. He gives a ph out of tap and a ph in the tank - I presume after 24 hours? He uses a / to separate each different parameter.

tank ph: 7,5/Ph of the water straight out of your tap: 7,5

[NeonTetra]

temp: 83 F/tank ph: 7,5/Ph of the water straight out of your tap: 7,5/ammonia reading: 0/nitrite reading: 0/nitrate reading: dont know /Well water: No/Municipal water: Yes

Keith, I see an ammonia reading at 7.5 as I read this. OP puts the numbers first in his readings, (temp 83, ph 7.5, ammonia 7.5, nitrites and nitrates at 0) so right now he has no cycle, and it has not begun.

My ammonia readings are: 0 :)

[Quintin]

Where are you from neon tetra

[NeonTetra]

Where are you from neon tetra

From Chile! South America

[jmf3460]

so do you have zero ammonia, zero nitrite and zero nitrate?? or do you just not have a nitrate test??

[NeonTetra]

so do you have zero ammonia, zero nitrite and zero nitrate?? or do you just not have a nitrate test??

I have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and i bought yesterday a nitrate test, so i am going to check it today, my 1 lt of ammonia 25 % concentration arrives today :D, so i can start feeding my bb

[guggas]

25% wow thats really strong ammonia. Keep it away from your nose! you wont need to use much.

[Second Hand Pat]

I have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and i bought yesterday a nitrate test, so i am going to check it today, my 1 lt of ammonia 25 % concentration arrives today :D, so i can start feeding my bb

You might want to read up on doing a fishless cycle. You only want to use a "little" ammonia. About 2ppm I believe in the tank to feed the BB. Too much and you can stall the cycle. Shake it to make sure it does not foam. If it foams do not use it.
Pat

[NeonTetra]

25% wow thats really strong ammonia. Keep it away from your nose! you wont need to use much.

Yeah the smell is very strong hahaha, thanks


You might want to read up on doing a fishless cycle. You only want to use a "little" ammonia. About 2ppm I believe in the tank to feed the BB. Too much and you can stall the cycle. Shake it to make sure it does not foam. If it foams do not use it.
Pat

I' am using the begginer guide:

With the filter on and the heater running, add sufficient ammonia to your tank to produce an ammonia test reading of 4 or 5 ppm (parts per million). Start by adding one teaspoon of ammonia for every ten gallons of water, or five teaspoons in a 55 gallon tank. Swirl it around and let it sit. Please note that ammonia at the dosage level suggested above is the quantity needed when using a 10 % concentration of ammonia in water. If you’re using 100% pure ammonia, the dosage will need to be reduced accordingly, i.e., by 10 times, - only six to eight drops of ammonia per 10 gallons, since a teaspoon contains about 80 drops of liquid.

I asked to the seller and told me that it's pure ammonia, no perfume or colors, etc. I will shake it, thanks

So... For 10 gallons you need 80 drops of ammonia (one tea spoon) (10%) and for 10 gallons you need 16 drops of ammonia (25%)? I' am right?

[bluelagoon]

First,welcome.Just to add from what I see from the pics.I think you'll have an algae issue with your tank being that close to a natural light source.Not that it will harm the fish,but can be unsightly.

[NeonTetra]

First,welcome.Just to add from what I see from the pics.I think you'll have an algae issue with your tank being that close to a natural light source.Not that it will harm the fish,but can be unsightly.

Yes and no, because i have a curtain and the window it's big (my bedroom will not be a cave hahaha, so will not affect the tank :D, but you have a point, thanks