Series of Problems

[Redrain]

Hi guys, I posted a thread a while back named "discus won't eat" or something like that. Alot has happened to that tank since then. Long story short, those 2 fish (young turqoise) wouldn't eat no matter what, since the day I bought them till nearly a month, they haven't eaten anything. So as some people suggested to me, buy more discus. So I go to the store, (to clear things up from now, in Kuwait we don't have either chain stores like petco or petsmart nor we have local fish stores. We have a "pet market" with shops mostly bird shops and fish shops, the place is so old and the shops are so small compared to what you guys have in the US or UK or other countries) I bought from the same shop, it is my favorite shop, and got myself a large what is supposed to be a male Snakeskin for a good price. That male eated immediately after I put him in the tank, and he wasn't shy at all, infact I could handfeed him, he acted like a father to my other younger discus and he encouraged them to eat.

After a few days I considered to buy more discus, and I did just that. I went to the same shop, and got myself a "pair" of checkerboards, they as well started to eat from the first day I got them. The other Snakeskin started to chase the checkerboard female so I decided to put a divider. After a week or two, the checkerboards started spawing, spawn after spawn after spawn with no success, they spawned maybe 6 or 7 times. And I'm sure that they are male and female because I saw the female lay eggs I the male go over them, plus the breeding tube was pointed on the female and blunt on the male.


That was the time that all my discus were happy and very active
https://i.imgsafe.org/caadf72b93.jpg

Here are the 2 brilliant turqs and the male snake playing with my hand
https://i.imgsafe.org/caae2e6cf3.jpg

Here is my male checkerboard, he's the prettiest fish I have ever owned.
https://i.imgsafe.org/caae7c971c.jpg

Everything was running smoothly, my fish were happy, and so did I. until one day...

I walk into one of mt favorite shops and I find what I was looking for for years, and that was a tank full of juvenile Uaru Amphiacanthoides. They looked like they had Ich but the worker told me that it was air bubbles from the powerhead, I believed him because most of the spots were gone after he kinda spooked them. So I got 6 of them along with some bolivian rams and cories. I didn't have a quarantine tank at that time or anything that would work as a container, so I put them in the discus tank... And everything went crap since then.

The Uaru were indeed infected with Ich. My non PB discus got sick and darkened up alot, they almost looked black from a distance. The male snake's slime coat was peeling off, my other discus were acting weird. And that happened during and after the treatment. I used Sera costapur, this product below
https://i.imgsafe.org/cb8e82ac33.jpg
It worked great for treating Ich. I don't know what made my discus sick, was it the Ich or some other nasties that came with the fish.


All of that (adding Uaru and rams) was about a month and a half. Until last week, my discus were still acting weird. One of the original 2 turqs was so weak it lied almost all day facing the corner, its color was so dark, other fish were constantly pecking it, I tried my best to save him but unfortunately he died on me yesterday.

Also, my female checkerboard is now so thin, its bones bulge and have a pinched forehead. She wasn't like this before, she eats well and always have a full belly. All of my other fish have good mass to them, this is the only one that got skinny, she also got so pale and her peppering got stronger.
https://i.imgsafe.org/cb8e36694e.jpg
Here is her from above so you can see how skinny she got, she had the same bulk of the male
https://i.imgsafe.org/cb8e7e056a.jpg
https://i.imgsafe.org/cb8e443ef2.jpg

Even the sick turq that died was fatter than her.

Currently I'm feeding a seafood mix (I can't find beef heart) which is just tilapia and shrimp with spinach and some garlic.
https://i.imgsafe.org/cb8e523772.jpg

Now the male snake and turq have turned so dark
https://i.imgsafe.org/cb8e0ccee5.jpg

The stress bars on the male snake are always present
https://i.imgsafe.org/cb8e554ef2.jpg


So what should I do to get my Discus back to full health?
I'm confused, I do a 20-25% waterchange every week, and I feed them frozen food exclusively, Temp at 29C (84F)

[NeonTetra]

I really cant help you because i am a begginer, but for me it's obvious that the reason of this disaster is because you didn't the quarantine, i would isolet the discus in other tank and treat it perhaps? But as i said i am a begginer, i wish you luck! And cheer up, making mistakes it's part of the hobby

[Ryan925]

I too am no expert but I would say you have so many variables there it would be tough to pinpoint what went wrong. No quartine is obvious but even more so is your frequency of water changes. 20-25% is not enough daily let alone weekly. First thing I would say is start doing large daily water changes. While you're doing that read the beginner section and educate yourself on proper care. While doing that I'm sure some of the experts will chime in with tips or pointers.

[Altum Nut]

A.S.H...I understand that you may not have all the necessities catered to you as most of us have in North America but It was mentioned above some of the key problems...no quarantine, not enough clean water. Aside from that I think that PB female is to far gone to recover and the smaller Discus are not that far behind unless your able to commit to larger more frequent w/c's. Personally at this point the entire tank can be possibly contaminated. Furthermore most LFS have limited knowledge with certain species and will say just about anything if it leads to a sale, so take caution.
This forum would have been best to turn to for advise if you weren't sure about something.
At this point I would honestly recommend you separate Discus from the others in Rubbermaid containers heated with an air stone and stripe your tank down and disinfect everything with diluted bleach, rinse well and allow to air dry.
I see no reason at this point to throw meds at already weakened immune in fish.

...Ralph

[Akili]

20-25% water change every week is not enough,To start with start with Daily water changes. This have to be large water changes (75 to 100 %). Ryan 925 has recommened you to go through the "Beginner"s Section"so do that and also watch this video
https://youtu.be/VXe3VKh7qF8 You can use extra extra lean ground beef instead beef heart. I reccommend you buy nice cut of beef and trim the excess fat and grind it for your mix.

[William1]

Ouch babe. For starters you broke two of the cardinal rules of discus keeping shared, if not preached, on this forum. You bought fish with ich and put them in your discus tank. Uhh... Bad idea. Real bad idea. You change 20-25% of your water a week. You should be doing that every day. Especially if you have an ich infested tank!
Your fish are toast. Done. Put a fork in them. Use them for lawn fertilizer if you don't mind a burn spot. May be you can try again, but may I suggest you practice better judgement and discus husbandry skills if you do.

[Redrain]

I am now heating a 30 Gal drum that measures 26in height and 22in diameter. Would all the fish be ok in that drum for a day or 2? or at least the Discus, and the other fish somewhere else. The SS male sometimes bullies the small turk, would all 4 discus be ok in the drum together?

The current fish are:
-PB pair
-1 big SS male
-small blue turq
-9 or 10 rams
-6 2in Uaru
-a small school of cardinals
-few cories

[DISCUS STU]

Improper quarantine or not properly following quarantine, such as breaking it too early, and many other combinations come together to make the perfect storm. Result? Dead and dying Discus. You're fish aren't dying from ich but from a combination of many things coming together in the worst possible way. I suspect the Uaru's also harbored some other bacterial, and or, parasitic problem as well. The Uaru's were basically the catalyst, this could have been brought on by other things at other times as well.

If it's any consolation, this has happened to me and I've had complete wipeouts in similar circumstances. Many times meds. only make the problem worse. I've learned from these painful experiences, but sometimes I had to learn the same lesson more than once before I finally got the message.

Unfortunately I would call your Discus a wipeout at this point. It looks like some of the other fish are ok for the moment but that may changes.

Probably best to euthanize much of this, break down the whole thing and start over again but with better maintenance procedures.

1. Quarantine tank is a must, especially if you're buying ANYTHING from a lfs or lps.
2. More frequent water changes 50% at least every 2-3 days but most recommend every day.

Good luck!

[Redrain]

Improper quarantine or not properly following quarantine, such as breaking it too early, and many other combinations come together to make the perfect storm. Result? Dead and dying Discus. You're fish aren't dying from ich but from a combination of many things coming together in the worst possible way. I suspect the Uaru's also harbored some other bacterial, and or, parasitic problem as well. The Uaru's were basically the catalyst, this could have been brought on by other things at other times as well.

If it's any consolation, this has happened to me and I've had complete wipeouts in similar circumstances. Many times meds. only make the problem worse. I've learned form these painful experiences, but sometimes I had to learn the same lesson more than once before I finally got the message.

Unfortunately I would call your tank a wipeout at this point. Probably best to euthanize much of this, break down the whole thing and start over again but with better maintenance procedures.

1. Quarantine tank is a must, especially if you're buying ANYTHING from a lfs or lps.
2. More frequent water changes 50% at least every 2-3 days but most recommend every day.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply, I know I made a huge mistake. I am not a fan of euthanizing fish, I am trying so solve the problem, even if I ended with stunted fish I wont kill them. I want to try my best to get them happy and look better.

[Neptune]

I wish you luck.

keep us posted.

[DISCUS STU]

Thanks for the reply, I know I made a huge mistake. I am not a fan of euthanizing fish, I am trying so solve the problem, even if I ended with stunted fish I wont kill them. I want to try my best to get them happy and look better.

Carrying on with sick fish means that they're a potential disease vector to new arrivals. If they're beyond hope then I've had to euthanize, as much as I hate doing this.

[Redrain]

Carrying on with sick fish means that they're a potential disease vector to new arrivals. If they're beyond hope then I've had to euthanize, as much as I hate doing this.

As I told you Stu, I am willing to do anything accept killing the fish. It is against my principle.

[Redrain]

Hey guys, I was planning to disinfect the tank today, but my sister and her children came home and she is staying for a couple of days, so I couldn't do it, so now I am just doing 50% WC daily until they leave.

[DISCUS STU]

As I told you Stu, I am willing to do anything accept killing the fish. It is against my principle.

This is understandable.

[Redrain]

Hey guys, so today I started the process of disinfecting the tank.

I placed all 4 Discus in the beige barrel, and the Uaru and other fish in the black one. The water is aged and at the exact same temp, they all got heaters and airstones. The blue one is for a water change I was doing on my "community" tank.
https://s17.postimg.io/wy51mhf8v/fshtnkcrp.png


Here are they
https://s9.postimg.io/hz1x2qocf/DSC_4638.jpg


Took everything out
https://s9.postimg.io/m9gkybtfj/DSC_4639.jpg


Draining the tank
https://s9.postimg.io/k665qntmn/DSC_4640.jpg


Sprayed the inside with diluted bleach, one capfull to two thirds of that bottle
https://s9.postimg.io/z4t5yty2n/DSC_4642.jpg


Sprayed the wood and equipment
https://s9.postimg.io/n5hnrishr/DSC_4644.jpg



I will later clean the canopy
https://s9.postimg.io/w9g2ryu2n/DSC_4641.jpg


Ok, so I scrubbed the tank and I drained it. Sprayed it and the equipment and wood with the diluted bleach. Now I'm waiting for every thing to dry to redo the spraying, also I will spray and wash the wood and dry it in the sun tomorrow (it's 1:48 AM now).

So I have one concern, The filter. What should I do with it? I don't want to bleach it so I don't kill the bacteria, I don't have cycled media on hand and I don't want it to lose its cycle. It is a tetra canister filled with some sponge and substrat pro.

[MD.David]

That melon pigeon is done, it's 100% terminal, it hasn't eaten in at least a month I would guess, soon the fins will get all ratty and the vision of the fish will be lost. I have seen this before.
We all learn from our mistakes, discus keeping has a learning curve and we all learn our own way.
I'm sorry to say but there isn't much you can do for these guys, besides 90% water changes daily and possibly a light treatment of some type of anti-parasitical and anti-bacterial dewormer treatment, don't use anything too abrasive like Formalin or potassium permanganate, that might kill them for sure.
At some point an aquariumist gets exhausted with trying to cure or eradicate something that might be incurable, then we cut our loses and start over.

[Redrain]

That melon pigeon is done, it's 100% terminal, it hasn't eaten in at least a month I would guess, soon the fins will get all ratty and the vision of the fish will be lost. I have seen this before.
We all learn from our mistakes, discus keeping has a learning curve and we all learn our own way.
I'm sorry to say but there isn't much you can do for these guys, besides 90% water changes daily and possibly a light treatment of some type of anti-parasitical and anti-bacterial dewormer treatment, don't use anything too abrasive like Formalin or potassium permanganate, that might kill them for sure.
At some point an aquariumist gets exhausted with trying to cure or eradicate something that might be incurable, then we cut our loses and start over.

First of all, I want to thank you for taking your time to reply. Here are some things that I want to address to you: that fish got thin long before I added any fish, plus I handfeed it every single day with a seafood mix so I'm sure that she eats. Another thing is, I'm working on fixing my mistake, I need more advice regarding that. I know I messed up pretty bad, so I want to try my best to fix that.

[Filip]

Redrain .
IMO you shouldnt have started sterilizing your tank at the first place, but just clean it thoroughly (filter, substrate , glass, decor and 200% WC).
But if you DO want to sterilize it properly than leaving the filter unsterilized defeats the whole purpose of your task .
If you are dead set to do everything you can for this discus , put them in a QT , Change 100% water daily and hope for the best . Nothing more.

Wish you good luck .

[Redrain]

Redrain .
IMO you shouldnt have started sterilizing your tank at the first place, but just clean it thoroughly (filter, substrate , glass, decor and 200% WC).
But if you DO want to sterilize it properly than leaving the filter unsterilized defeats the whole purpose of your task .
If you are dead set to do everything you can for this discus , put them in a QT , Change 100% water daily and hope for the best . Nothing more.

Wish you good luck .

Well, I did it because someone here adviced me to. Thanks

[Filip]

Well, I did it because someone here adviced me to. Thanks


Ok than, go that route .
But Im just saying you either sterilize 100% everything along with the tinniest pipe and airstone or you dont start at all .
There is no half way here when sterilizing.

[Redrain]

Ok than, go that route .
But Im just saying you either sterilize 100% everything along with the tinniest pipe and airstone or you dont start at all .
There is no half way here when sterilizing.

I wish I were told that earlier...