I DON't WANNA CLEAN MY CANISTER FILTER!

[Mac]

Judging by the threads on water changes and filter cleaning, I must be a total slob:

90 gallon planted discus tank (with some other stuff like loaches and tetras), so there's actually about 80 gallons of water. I change 24 gallons twice a week, mixing half make-up tap water (hard, Washington, DC water) with RO.

I used to clean my Penn-Plax canister every 6 months or so, but it's a terrible job and takes well over an hour; plus, last time it resulted in an ammonia spike. It's now been about 15 months since I cleaned that sucker. Nonetheless, my ammonia and nitrites are both 0. So, what's the problem?

Oh, yeah, the fish are fine.

My only problem is algae, but I don't think that has anything to do with hygiene. It's mostly hair algae (I think), and the only plants that have done halfway well are broad-leafed, like swords and valisneria. (I just harvested about 2 lbs. of sword shoots and gave them to my LFS).

Is someone going to tell me that my fish will be bigger and happier if I clean the filter more? Or that I'll have less algae?

Mac

[Fishquake]

It all depends on the size of your filter, the bio-load, and if water flow through the canister is diminished.

[Ryan925]

How about nitrates?

Algae is more linked to lighting and/or imbalance of nutrients.

Fish growth and happiness would be more attributed to wc frequency than the filter cleaning however buildup of food, feces etc in the mechanical portion of the filter can lead to water quality issues.

[DanDiscus]

You have hair algae because an excess in PO4, that you probably have, is not being used buy your aquarium plants.

I am sure that if you measure PO4 now it will be 0 or very low. But if the HA does not bother you, is OK.

As mentioned, if Nitrates are OK, Discus are OK and the tank is doing OK, then why bothering.

Have you visited Stendker Discus Site ? . The have a full section with tons of info. Within it there is an article about filters and their maintenance. I will suggest you read it.

[Phillydubs]

You had an amonia spike cause you rarely ever clean your filter and do minimal water changes.

Sure having a clean filter will make the fish happier and growth rates higher... That's common sense and I am pretty sure you were being facetious with the remark ...

I guess the real question is do you want to be an ok keeper and hobbyist or a pretty good one ...?

Bottom line is care, want and desire. If it's too troublesome to give an hour of your time to maintain your filter then I would say discus are not for you but then again maybe fish or pets are not for you because to me that doesn't seem like much to ask to have happy pets and therefor you are happier because now you are not caring for sick animals because... hey that's no fun. Sure it's a chore but that's what this hobby is.

Seems to me like you want to post here so folks can say sure your water tests are good so guess you are good don't clean it. Problem is, one day is going to be too many and something is going to clog or break or go wrong and you won't have time to react. This my friend is called preventitive maintence. Hell man I don't want to go get my truck serviced every few months. Do those 5,000 miles hit, that light comes on and I ignore it for a few days, weeks... Sure. We all have. But do you bet your booty I get my booty there before that thing seizes up or I have problems. I think I made my point.

I would up my water changes and if you rinse the media all in tank water you really shouldn't have a spike. Especially if you keep on top of things.

Have fun... Healthy fish are fun. But healthy fish take time and effort.

[Ryan925]

You had an amonia spike cause you rarely ever clean your filter and do minimal water changes.

Sure having a clean filter will make the fish happier and growth rates higher... That's common sense and I am pretty sure you were being facetious with the remark ...

I guess the real question is do you want to be an ok keeper and hobbyist or a pretty good one ...?

Bottom line is care, want and desire. If it's too troublesome to give an hour of your time to maintain your filter then I would say discus are not for you but then again maybe fish or pets are not for you because to me that doesn't seem like much to ask to have happy pets and therefor you are happier because now you are not caring for sick animals because... hey that's no fun. Sure it's a chore but that's what this hobby is.

Seems to me like you want to post here so folks can say sure your water tests are good so guess you are good don't clean it. Problem is, one day is going to be too many and something is going to clog or break or go wrong and you won't have time to react. This my friend is called preventitive maintence. Hell man I don't want to go get my truck serviced every few months. Do those 5,000 miles hit, that light comes on and I ignore it for a few days, weeks... Sure. We all have. But do you bet your booty I get my booty there before that thing seizes up or I have problems. I think I made my point.

I would up my water changes and if you rinse the media all in tank water you really shouldn't have a spike. Especially if you keep on top of things.

Have fun... Healthy fish are fun. But healthy fish take time and effort.

Well said

[Clawhammer]

Lack of understanding of discus water quality needs has got to be the most common mistake/misconception in the hobby from I have seen. Coming from the planted tank world, I thought I was pretty smart, knowing about the nitrification cycle, redox, CO2/O2 etc. What I learned pretty quick (though not quick enough to avoid a problem) is that there is much more to water than what we test for. Discus are sensitive to the very bacterial load and detritus that we cultivate in a planted tank (especially a low tech tank).

A dirty tank simply causes them a lot of stress which leaves them vulnerable to parasites and bacterial infections. A dirty filter fouls the water that passes through it, stress the fish and preventing optimal growth conditions.

[MD.David]

You are creating a very large nuclear bomb called a dangerous bacteria and nitrite/nitrate explosion!
I would suggest that only thing that might has saved you is probably your water parameters (such as low ph, etc).
Moving forward with a regiment like this it's only a matter of time till your tank is wiped out. There is no doubt to any experienced discus keeper, that your discus are stressed and suffering, you simply are not aware of what they are feeling.
You should be cleaning your canister filter in old tank water, not tap water, no less then 3 times a month.
Get a large hydro sponge filter, once the be official bacteria is established in the filter, you will never experience a ammonia or nitrite spike, you clean canister one week and the next week you clean sponge filter.
The reason it takes you so long to clean your canister is because your not cleaning it every week like you should, it only takes 10-15mins each week if you do it every week or every other week.
Please care for your discus responsibly, I see this type of posting so many times.
I am totally in favour of licensing aquariumists to keep discus, when you don't care for them properly they suffer and the animal feels pain just like we do.
Please love your discus and care for them, don't make them suffer.



Judging by the threads on water changes and filter cleaning, I must be a total slob:

90 gallon planted discus tank (with some other stuff like loaches and tetras), so there's actually about 80 gallons of water. I change 24 gallons twice a week, mixing half make-up tap water (hard, Washington, DC water) with RO.

I used to clean my Penn-Plax canister every 6 months or so, but it's a terrible job and takes well over an hour; plus, last time it resulted in an ammonia spike. It's now been about 15 months since I cleaned that sucker. Nonetheless, my ammonia and nitrites are both 0. So, what's the problem?

Oh, yeah, the fish are fine.

My only problem is algae, but I don't think that has anything to do with hygiene. It's mostly hair algae (I think), and the only plants that have done halfway well are broad-leafed, like swords and valisneria. (I just harvested about 2 lbs. of sword shoots and gave them to my LFS).

Is someone going to tell me that my fish will be bigger and happier if I clean the filter more? Or that I'll have less algae?

Mac

[Filip]

You can leave the canister full with only coarse bio media and without any mechanical filter media inside .
Wrap the intake with thick layer of fine filter media like filter floss , and just change / replace that floss 2 times a week .

That way you can have clean inside of canister for period of many months , and still discus poop and leftovers would be regularly taken out of the system .

Your current regime is a recepy for a disaster .Change something ASAP.

[Mac]

Thank you all for taking the trouble to reply.

Gee, I had hoped to stimulate some helpful comments about water quality and chemistry. And, I did get some of that. In response to those comments:

My phosphates are 2 ppm, not zero, as one of you predicted.

I don’t have a nitrate test kit at the moment, but I did have one years ago, and, yes, there were some nitrates. My recollection is that the “nitrogen cycle” in an aquarium starts with ammonia, thence to nitrite, thence to nitrates, which are benign in terms of fish health.

The flow through the canister seems constant over time, as I can see when I do my changes, because the outflow is then above the surface.

One of you referred me to the Stendker site and its info on H2O quality. Interestingly, here’s some language I found on that site about water changes:

“How much of the water volume you exchange and how frequently you carry out a water change depends on the amount of feed you give your fish and on the amount of excrement the fish produce. e.g. fewer fish = less feed = fewer water changes
e.g. for a 180 litre / 40 US gallons aquarium with 12 discus fish (10 cm / 4”), 50 neons, 6 catfish and 4 dwarf cichlids, we recommend a water change 1 x per week, exchanging 1/3 of the aquarium water.”

Leaving aside the apparent over-stocking of this hypothetical set-up (12 discus plus 50 neons, etc., in 40 gallons ???!!!), his bottom line is about one-third per week. As indicated in my original post, my two weekly 24-gallon changes come out to sixty percent. Interesting.

Finally, I would like to comment on the doom-and-gloomers who are so sure I am courting a disaster, owing to my implicit lack of love for my fish (and even pets in general!); that, plus the suggestion that this may not be the hobby for me: --

When will this disaster strike? I had my first aquarium in 1950. I have kept a discus tank for over 30 years, and the tank I discuss in my post has been in the same room, with more or less the same w/c regimen, since 1991. I have succeeded in isolating 3 spawning pairs, and have raised 3 or 4 batches to maturity (and resale). I do not need unhelpful and supercilious lectures on animal husbandry and/or the emotional life of fish.

Finally, I will now try to post a pic of my tank, taken today. (I cranked my Nikon down to 4 mp for the effort.) These fish certainly don’t seem to be languishing from neglect and/or poor water quality.

Thanks again for your attention.

[Filip]

Your fish looks pretty healthy to me Mac .
Anyway i still stand on my claim that roting poop,food and what else in your filter media can not be productive and a healthy enviroment for any fish.
if you clean your canister thoroughly and start using prefiter materials on your intake and less mechanical filtration inside youll end up with a lot cleaner water.
filter media fool of debris is an unlimited source of food for unwanted bacteria and fish pathogens .

[Rapture]

Why does it take you so long to clean your canister? Maybe if you made some small changes there, you will not dread cleaning it so much. I maintain my canister at least every couple of weeks and it only takes a couple of minutes.

[Ryan925]

Why does it take you so long to clean your canister? Maybe if you made some small changes there, you will not dread cleaning it so much. I maintain my canister at least every couple of weeks and it only takes a couple of minutes.

I agree. Cleaning my canister takes a few mins as well.

Recently I added an eheim prefilter to intake. I clean the sponges each wc while tank is draining. Even without the pre filter it still only takes a few mins to clean canister.

I am new to discus but I don't see how someone who has kept fish so long, bred and raised fry, etc can think nitrates are harmless... Even a newbie knows that isn't true

[bluelagoon]

The build up of organic sludge robs nutrifing bacteria of oxygen and promotes non beneficial bacteria including disease organisms like flexibacter columnaris,planaria,ect.Tanks with less sludge will be healthier and more efficient biological filter.

[DJW]

+1
Heterotrophic bacteria can build up a film over the top of the beneficial bacteria, and eventually it can smother it. Might take several months though.

If you have a good pre filter on the intake you can go longer between cleanings. It only takes me about 10 minutes to rinse out a canister filter... but I'm still lazy about doing it.

[bluelagoon]

Yes,beneficial bacteria are like dental plaque it is tough once established on surfaces of the entire system,but needs O2.Dirty substrate will have some of the same issues.