Correlation between infrequent WCs and bad reactions to WCs

[TexMoHoosier]

I was curious if anyone here has noticed that when people have issues with their discus acting weird after water changes if it's because they do water changes too infrequently. Everyone blames dissolved gas, but think there is more to it so here's my theory: The discus more or less acclimate to the chemistry of "old" water which gets farther and farther away from the chemistry of "new" water, so basically when someone does a large WC after having not done one for several days or more, they're shocking their fish by not acclimating them back to the "new" water's chemistry.

Fear of it has caused me to add new water very slowly, mostly because I have a heavily planted tank enriched with CO2 and ferts. So when I do a 50% WC (about 3 per week), I take about 20 minutes to pump the new water into my aquarium so that my discus and cardinals slowly acclimate to the post-WC conditions. I use 4:1 RO:tap and add them together right before the WC. In the 6 months that I was "practicing" with cardinals and the month and a half or so I've had the discus (6 5-6" adults), I've had zero issues after water changes.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[Simplejustin]

I agree.

[Rod]

I disagree. If they are stressed after w/c, then the water coming in is not good enough or the ph is too low. The water change water should be aerated, heated and treated before use. (I use prime and activated carbon, but a decent clorine/ammonia remover at least is required) One more thing is discus do not like a sudden drop in PH, always make sure that this won't occur and your right to go.

[Simplejustin]

Isnt it possible that the ph may change in the tank in the time between water changes? Especially people with canisters with decaying matter in them. I think more than 2 days is enough for a significant drop in ph compared to the aging barrel.

[Altum Nut]

I'm with Rod on this one. Have not had any issues with w/c at 80% volume using stored aged water heated and aerated 24 hrs+.
As for filling, I use a mag 18 pump so water comes in fast. Never test for ph so I suspect tank water and aged water must be at par.

...Ralph

[DJW]

Isnt it possible that the ph may change in the tank in the time between water changes?

It is possible but it is easily avoided. The recipe for a falling pH is:

-- Low buffer or carbonate harness (KH)
-- Overstocking
-- Too long between water changes

If you do any two of these things, the pH can drop in the tank. Adding fresh water with a higher pH generally isn't a problem unless its a drastic shift or the biofilter has stalled from the pH having gone too low.

[Jason.M]

I was curious if anyone here has noticed that when people have issues with their discus acting weird after water changes if it's because they do water changes too infrequently. Everyone blames dissolved gas, but think there is more to it so here's my theory: The discus more or less acclimate to the chemistry of "old" water which gets farther and farther away from the chemistry of "new" water, so basically when someone does a large WC after having not done one for several days or more, they're shocking their fish by not acclimating them back to the "new" water's chemistry.

Fear of it has caused me to add new water very slowly, mostly because I have a heavily planted tank enriched with CO2 and ferts. So when I do a 50% WC (about 3 per week), I take about 20 minutes to pump the new water into my aquarium so that my discus and cardinals slowly acclimate to the post-WC conditions. I use 4:1 RO:tap and add them together right before the WC. In the 6 months that I was "practicing" with cardinals and the month and a half or so I've had the discus (6 5-6" adults), I've had zero issues after water changes.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

I think what your referring to is osmotic shock. But this happens after a longer period of neglect and you have old tank syndrome.

[pastry]

Since cardinals are in there, if they are fine then discus should be fine. I use my tetras as " yellow canaries" because if there's something goofy with a WC then they're the first to go crazy. Yeah I could ask for more details but at what's provided I think you're good unless overstocked/under filtered. I'm going to bet that isn't the case.

[pitdogg2]

Since cardinals are in there, if they are fine then discus should be fine. I use my tetras as " yellow canaries" because if there's something goofy with a WC then they're the first to go crazy.

Afraid I have to agree with this. Lemon's, Rummy nosed also will end up stuck the filter intake quick .....ask me how I know:)

[pastry]

Afraid I have to agree with this. Lemon's, Rummy nosed also will end up stuck the filter intake quick .....ask me how I know:)

Yep, and I have lemons which IME tend to be tougher to kill

[Fundulopanchax]

I change about 90% of water in adults tanks 2 or 3 times a week but I travel extensively for work. Thus, sometimes it is as long as 10 days between water changes. When I come home I change 90% of the water and the pairs usually spawn the next day so they are certainly not negatively affected. My tank water runs around pH 7.2 - 7.6 when I change several times each week. When they go as long as 10 days the pH runs around 6.2 - 6.4. The new water goes in directly from the tap (well water this is rather soft with KH 3, GH 4 and tds 70-100) at pH 8.0. When higher pH water is added fish do well. Keep in mind though that my high pH is not supported by the buffering of hard water so in a day or so the tank pH is about 7.2 - 7.6. However, if I age water, even with circulation, the pH stays at around 8.0. Many municipal treated waters do change pH with aging.

Ron

[DJW]

I change about 90% of water in adults tanks 2 or 3 times a week but I travel extensively for work. Thus, sometimes it is as long as 10 days between water changes. When I come home I change 90% of the water and the pairs usually spawn the next day so they are certainly not negatively affected. My tank water runs around pH 7.2 - 7.6 when I change several times each week. When they go as long as 10 days the pH runs around 6.2 - 6.4. The new water goes in directly from the tap (well water this is rather soft with KH 3, GH 4 and tds 70-100) at pH 8.0. When higher pH water is added fish do well. Keep in mind though that my high pH is not supported by the buffering of hard water so in a day or so the tank pH is about 7.2 - 7.6. However, if I age water, even with circulation, the pH stays at around 8.0. Many municipal treated waters do change pH with aging.

Ron

Are your tanks stocked lightly, with more than 10 gallons per adult?

[Bc chick]

i find my fish are stressed as well after changes. im not aging atm (im in middle of setting up) my ph doesnt swing as i have aged and tested. i also refill slowly and refill with my hose behind the background to try to eliminate the amount of microbubbles. my rummies and cards in my community tank loose almost all coloring after changes

[pastry]

I've had a few discus that act like wuss'es during/after wc but most love it during and/or after. Straight tap and usually much cooler than tank temp. Ph is a little higher from tap. Only two 70% wc's per week.

[Goon]

if one doesnt age water can it kill discus? i dont have enough real estate to store aged water and plan on doing wc straight from tap.

[Akili]

if one doesnt age water can it kill discus? i dont have enough real estate to store aged water and plan on doing wc straight from tap.It could, here is a good read as to why to age water......................http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/waterfaqs/f/What-Is-Aged-Aquarium-Water.htm

[Goon]

what equipment would i need to to use to pump aged water from barrel to tank?

[Bc chick]

what equipment would i need to to use to pump aged water from barrel to tank?

barrel should be food safe, a submerible pump (cheap at walmart) and a hose

[Goon]

would i need a gardening hose? or could i use tubing that is used on canister filters, sorry for nooby questions.

[atlantadiscus]

Either,but I have found a boat/RV type drinking water safe garden hose is cheaper,check on Amazon,I think I paid $20 for a 5/8" 50 foot one which is exclusively used for draining/filling my tank

[Bc chick]

would i need a gardening hose? or could i use tubing that is used on canister filters, sorry for nooby questions.

whatever hose you can fit on pump as long as it is drinking/fish safe

[Goon]

can you link me the pump you are talking about that is cheap from walmart?

[Bc chick]

can you link me the pump you are talking about that is cheap from walmart?

heres an example of one from u.s. not sure if theres cheaper out there for you as im in canada

http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/500gph-r...FYOBaQodCpoPXQ

[pitdogg2]

heres an example of one from u.s. not sure if theres cheaper out there for you as im in canada

http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/500gph-r...FYOBaQodCpoPXQ


linky no workie

[Bc chick]

goon. i will respond in your aging thread. just noticed u had one

[Bc chick]

linky no workie

no? sorry i copied it from someones post that said it works great. :sorry:

its not what i use. im pumping 100 g though. mine wasnt so cheap because i had to get one that siphons as well. so it has a intake and a out take. paid $110 canadian

what size tank do you have? do u want it to just pump or would you like it to siphon for vacuumcleaning?

[Goon]

i would just like it to pump since ive already bought python siphon and want to put it to use. and i have a 65 gallon tank

[pitdogg2]

no? sorry i copied it from someones post that said it works great. :sorry:
what size tank do you have? do u want it to just pump or would you like it to siphon for vacuum cleaning?

I do not need I have plenty I was just letting you know the link didn't work in case you were posting for someone else.

[Ryan925]

i would just like it to pump since ive already bought python siphon and want to put it to use. and i have a 65 gallon tank

I use a pump with my python. The vac force of the python leaves a lot to be desired. It is better if you leave the faucet rubbing the entire time but that's a huge waste. Here is what I use I use to vac my tank and do WCs. You could use it to drain tank then turn it around and fill from your barrel101855

[LizStreithorst]

I just bought this one for my RO mix. I bought it because uses water as a lubricant rather than oil. It was dirt cheap at Amazon. It's only 1/6 hp but it pumped out water fast enough for me. I changed 12 tanks with RO mix. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009X8O2E/ref=ya_st_dp_summary

[Fundulopanchax]

Are your tanks stocked lightly, with more than 10 gallons per adult?

Hi, I have 6 adults in each of two 65 gallon tanks and 16 adults in a 150 gallon tank.

[Bc chick]

linky no workie

linky workie more me....dunno y

[Bc chick]

I use a pump with my python. The vac force of the python leaves a lot to be desired. It is better if you leave the faucet rubbing the entire time but that's a huge waste. Here is what I use I use to vac my tank and do WCs. You could use it to drain tank then turn it around and fill from your barrel101855

what do u mean turn around?