Diatom filter or Purigen reactor ?

[Allwin]

Hello everyone,

Thinking to buy either one of those filters, but open to other options as well.

• Basically to maintain polished/hygiene water on breeding tanks.
• Able to switch this filter across multiple tanks.
• External pump.
• Mostly will be used in 20/29/40Gallon tanks.
• Preferable vendor?


Haven't used any of these filters, experts please share your suggestions and thoughts.Thanks...

[atlantadiscus]

I owned a Vortex Diatom filter way back in the mid 1970s,cleared up my 50 gallon tank real quick,not sure any manufacturer has ever made a more efficient filter since.These are not a filter to leave running 24/7 as they are so efficient,they will clog up with micro debris and flow will come to a trickle pretty quickly.More like a vacuum cleaner,put it on the tank once a week or so for a few hours and let it polish that water.

[Filip]

Purigen (chemical filtration)absorbes organics in their first (protein) phase , before they even start decomposing to Ammonia .
It also absorbs any colour and odor from the water.

I have never used diatom filter but from what Atlantadiscus wrote , they clear the water from the tinniest particles of dirt, like some kind of superior mechanical filtration.

So ,from what I understand they both work on different level and maybe their combined use would be the most appropriate :D.

[pitdogg2]

get a hot magnum 250 use the pleated micron filter. You can add diatom powder if you wish but the micron filter goes down to 1 micron and does a good job. you can clean it with a mix of bleach and water 40/60 and it will be right back to new for the most part. I use one for either that or carbon so you have options.

[SomeFin's Fishy]

Allwin- We used to use a pair of Vortex Diatom filters to help filter out the excrement and uneaten food from the tanks, and to polish the water between water changes, so we moved them around from tank to tank like you're planning on doing. They do a great job, but they are messy to operate and messy to clean, the filter bags tear pretty easily, and you have to buy replacement powder. Since we ran them 24/7, the motors burned out on both of them within a year. Now we use a pair of Magnum 350s with the pleated filter cartridge as pitdog suggested. While we initially tried using the diatom powder in the Magnums, we found that it was just as messy to clean and set up. We ended up purchasing filter blankets from a place called Duda Diesel: http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=%2Bpolyester+%2Bsheet. These filter blankets are inexpensive, can be cut to size, and come in various micron porosity down to 1 micron. One $40 blanket can be cut into dozens of filters and will last you for more than a year. We just wrap a piece of the blanket material around the pleated cartridge and hold it in place with several rubber bands. The Magnums are so simple to operate that its easy to move them from tank to tank. These "blanket wrapped cartridges" generally last about a week before they need to be cleaned. When the water flow begins to slow down. you simply remove the cartridge, take off the filter blanket, and wash them in the washing machine on the gentle cycle, using only bleach (no soap). We keep several cartridges on hand (they are really cheap), ready to go, so when we pull a dirty one out, we can drop a clean one back in and we're off and running again. If you're interested in seeing how they operate, stop by when you have a chance.

Just another tip: If you decide to go with the Diatom filter, you'll find that it's much cheaper to buy the Diatomaceous Earth (powder) from a swimming pool supply store. I also have an unopened 20# bag that you're welcome to if you want it.

[Ryan925]

Allwin- We used to use a pair of Vortex Diatom filters to help filter out the excrement and uneaten food from the tanks, and to polish the water between water changes, so we moved them around from tank to tank like you're planning on doing. They do a great job, but they are messy to operate and messy to clean, the filter bags tear pretty easily, and you have to buy replacement powder. Since we ran them 24/7, the motors burned out on both of them within a year. Now we use a pair of Magnum 350s with the pleated filter cartridge as pitdog suggested. While we initially tried using the diatom powder in the Magnums, we found that it was just as messy to clean and set up. We ended up purchasing filter blankets from a place called Duda Diesel: http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=%2Bpolyester+%2Bsheet. These filter blankets are inexpensive, can be cut to size, and come in various micron porosity down to 1 micron. One $40 blanket can be cut into dozens of filters and will last you for more than a year. We just wrap a piece of the blanket material around the pleated cartridge and hold it in place with several rubber bands. The Magnums are so simple to operate that its easy to move them from tank to tank. These "blanket wrapped cartridges" generally last about a week before they need to be cleaned. When the water flow begins to slow down. you simply remove the cartridge, take off the filter blanket, and wash them in the washing machine on the gentle cycle, using only bleach (no soap). We keep several cartridges on hand (they are really cheap), ready to go, so when we pull a dirty one out, we can drop a clean one back in and we're off and running again. If you're interested in seeing how they operate, stop by when you have a chance.

Just another tip: If you decide to go with the Diatom filter, you'll find that it's much cheaper to buy the Diatomaceous Earth (powder) from a swimming pool supply store. I also have an unopened 20# bag that you're welcome to if you want it.

Keep in mind that pool filter DE is nasty stuff, potentially carcinogenic if inhaled.

With that said I don't think the amount being used for an aquarium filter wouldn't be much to worry about. Still anytime I deal with DE I always wear a mask

[gators111]

I haven't used a diatom filter. But I have used both a HOT Magnum 350 and a Purigen reactor. The reactor works great, but purigen is a bit of a pain to recharge and isn't as portable as the Magnum. The Magnum does almost as good a job, easier to clean the micron filter (buy an extra one to rotate), and would be more portable. My only concern is the potential of cross contamination from moving anything from tank to tank. Currently, I'm using a purigen reactor and have the micron filter rigged up on my Mag drive pump intake, which is working great.

[DJW]

Marineland has stopped making the 350 filter for some reason. I've been trying out a similar filter that has the same type of pleated cartridge, which I think is 10 or 20 microns. The big difference with this newer replacement is that its an internal filter, not as handy as a hang-on, so it may not work for you.

http://www.marineland.com/Products/aquarium-filters-and-protein-skimmers/Mangnum-Polishing-Filter.aspx

Wrapping the cartridge with micron fabric as SomeFin'sFishy describes is a great idea. I use the Duda Diesel micron socks and they are pretty durable.

[pitdogg2]

Marineland has stopped making the 350 filter for some reason. I've been trying out a similar filter that has the same type of pleated cartridge, which I think is 10 or 20 microns. The big difference with this newer replacement is that its an internal filter, not as handy as a hang-on, so it may not work for you.

http://www.marineland.com/Products/aquarium-filters-and-protein-skimmers/Mangnum-Polishing-Filter.aspx

Wrapping the cartridge with micron fabric as SomeFin'sFishy describes is a great idea. I use the Duda Diesel micron socks and they are pretty durable.

I think you are mistaking the canister 350 for the HOT Magnum which was replace buy the filter in your link. You should be able to buy a HOT magnum if you act quick the "replacement" has only been out for a month.

[pitdogg2]

Keep in mind that pool filter DE is nasty stuff, potentially carcinogenic if inhaled.

it all it the same stuff whether you use AQ or Pool DE think of it like asbestos


With that said I don't think the amount being used for an aquarium filter wouldn't be much to worry about. Still anytime I deal with DE I always wear a mask

Good idea as I did the same but to be honest you are cutting down but no eliminating the risk because it can go through and around most cheap mask's. I would mix mine in a pitcher of water then feed into the filter(it sinks to the bottom) with a turkey baster through the Magnum 350 intake that was in the tank running it was much less likely to cloud into the tank that way. either way it is nasty stuff and it really only takes a little(3-4 tbsp) in a magnum too much and your are clogged before you are done.

[Ryan925]

it all it the same stuff whether you use AQ or Pool DE think of it like asbestos



Good idea as I did the same but to be honest you are cutting down but no eliminating the risk because it can go through and around most cheap mask's. I would mix mine in a pitcher of water then feed into the filter(it sinks to the bottom) with a turkey baster through the Magnum 350 intake that was in the tank running it was much less likely to cloud into the tank that way. either way it is nasty stuff and it really on takes a little(3-4 tbsp) in a magnum too much and your are clogged before you are done.

Definitely. I actually use a respirator mask with chem cartridges when I have to deal with it. I own a pool business so have to deal with it now and again although I try to stay away from it.

Either way it's nasty and messy

[Neptune]

Two different processes.

Purigen is an adsorption process and binds organics in the water such as ammonia, nitrates, tannins, etc.
It does not mechanically remove, say for example ich spores unless they just so happen to get stuck between two particles of Purigen.

DE or Vortex filter is a mechanical process. It traps particles. VERY SMALL particles but its still a mechanical process. It would therefore trap the spores, but would not remove, say ammonia.

Both will polish water but they do it differently.

[afriend]

Purigen absorbs organic compounds, it does not absorb ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates.

[pitdogg2]

Purigen absorbs organic compounds, it does not absorb ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates.

correct.

poly filters do ammonia but not nitrites or nitrates

[atlantadiscus]

I do not recall thinking using the Diatom filter was all that difficult nor unpleasant to deal with the powder at all- drop a few ounces of the powder in the filter jar,add water and screw on lid- there was a recirculating valve that caused the powder to evenly coat the bag,when coated you opened the valve and let it filter your aquarium,really rather easy and relatively mess free.The bag itself,you rinsed off under water to remove the spent powder and dirt collected when finished,and you could do a bleach soak to make the bag clean and white again- bag lasted for many years if you were gentle with it and never used a brush on it.Actually,quite surprised these filters are relatively unknown today,but it seems low cost junk dominates most of the market now,from crappy Chinese canister filters,to ultra violet "toys" they sell as sterilizers.

[Neptune]

Purigen absorbs organic compounds, it does not absorb ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates.

ya I got a little carried away there!

[afriend]

Purigen will help to produce crystal clear water when used properly because it absorbs organic material suspended in the water column. However the most important benefit of purigen is not clear water, but to reduce the pathogen count (virus, bacteria, parasite, and fungus) in the aquarium by helping to remove their food source. Other means of reducing the food source for pathogens is by water exchange, and removal of uneaten food and feces. The problem in using mechanical filtration to remove organic compounds is that dissolved organic compounds (DOCs) are much too small to be captured.

[atlantadiscus]

Dissolved organic compounds are taken care of by the biological filter,that is it's reason for being.

[afriend]

Dissolved organic compounds are taken care of by the biological filter,that is it's reason for being.

The process that occurs in the biological filter is called nitrification. This is a two step process where ammonia (NH3) is first converted to nitrite (NO2) and then to nitrate (NO3). The process is somewhat involved and is dependant on the PH of the water.

Organic compounds are carbon based and thus all contain carbon (C). Note that none of the compounds above are carbon based and thus the biological filter does not remove organic compounds.

Ammonia is produced in the aquarium by decomposition of organic compounds where ammonia is but one by-product of the process.

[Allwin]

Thanks afriend for sharing your knowledge...

Just trying to understand, i was pondering this question myself. As this Purigen link (http://www.petmountain.com/show_product/11442-503319) clearly says Purigen basically controls ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. Are we are disturbing beneficial bacteria in long run?

but to reduce the pathogen count (virus, bacteria, parasite, and fungus) in the aquarium by helping to remove their food source.

Also, since Purigen does remove soluble and insoluble impurities/salts from water chemistry. Does it reduces TDS as well?

[Allwin]

Thanks Mark for your detailed explanation. Something indeed good to know regarding the pump/filter blankets. Diatom filters handled properly can be good addition...

Sure, i will keep you posted if i need Diatomaceous Earth (powder). By the way, rams i got from you are doing wonderful....



Allwin- We used to use a pair of Vortex Diatom filters to help filter out the excrement and uneaten food from the tanks, and to polish the water between water changes, so we moved them around from tank to tank like you're planning on doing. They do a great job, but they are messy to operate and messy to clean, the filter bags tear pretty easily, and you have to buy replacement powder. Since we ran them 24/7, the motors burned out on both of them within a year. Now we use a pair of Magnum 350s with the pleated filter cartridge as pitdog suggested. While we initially tried using the diatom powder in the Magnums, we found that it was just as messy to clean and set up. We ended up purchasing filter blankets from a place called Duda Diesel: http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=%2Bpolyester+%2Bsheet. These filter blankets are inexpensive, can be cut to size, and come in various micron porosity down to 1 micron. One $40 blanket can be cut into dozens of filters and will last you for more than a year. We just wrap a piece of the blanket material around the pleated cartridge and hold it in place with several rubber bands. The Magnums are so simple to operate that its easy to move them from tank to tank. These "blanket wrapped cartridges" generally last about a week before they need to be cleaned. When the water flow begins to slow down. you simply remove the cartridge, take off the filter blanket, and wash them in the washing machine on the gentle cycle, using only bleach (no soap). We keep several cartridges on hand (they are really cheap), ready to go, so when we pull a dirty one out, we can drop a clean one back in and we're off and running again. If you're interested in seeing how they operate, stop by when you have a chance.

Just another tip: If you decide to go with the Diatom filter, you'll find that it's much cheaper to buy the Diatomaceous Earth (powder) from a swimming pool supply store. I also have an unopened 20# bag that you're welcome to if you want it.

[Allwin]

Agree with you atlantadiscus,

Tried several filters and most of them wear stop functioning before its life time. Only filtration i currently do is sponge filter,lol. So, thought of give a trial and error with one of these filters to give better environment to some of my breeding tanks.

Diatom filter, being old school with some manual involvement. Besides, i read lot of positive reviews overall. Thanks for sharing your experience.

By the way, like ur comparison to vacuum cleaner :-)


I do not recall thinking using the Diatom filter was all that difficult nor unpleasant to deal with the powder at all- drop a few ounces of the powder in the filter jar,add water and screw on lid- there was a recirculating valve that caused the powder to evenly coat the bag,when coated you opened the valve and let it filter your aquarium,really rather easy and relatively mess free.The bag itself,you rinsed off under water to remove the spent powder and dirt collected when finished,and you could do a bleach soak to make the bag clean and white again- bag lasted for many years if you were gentle with it and never used a brush on it.Actually,quite surprised these filters are relatively unknown today,but it seems low cost junk dominates most of the market now,from crappy Chinese canister filters,to ultra violet "toys" they sell as sterilizers.

[Allwin]

Hi Pitdogg2, as Dan mentioned i do see canister filter if i search for "Hot Magnum filters". Wondering, possible to share any link of Hot Magnum filter we are talking? Thanks...


I think you are mistaking the canister 350 for the HOT Magnum which was replace buy the filter in your link. You should be able to buy a HOT magnum if you act quick the "replacement" has only been out for a month.

[DJW]

I did have these two confused. There was the Canister filter 350 and the Hang-On-Tank 250. I can't find either one, but did see a used H.O.T. 250 on ebay. Both of these filters used the pleated cartridge that SomeFin'sFishy mentioned, that can be wrapped with a finer micron blanket. As far as I know the only filter available now that uses these cartridges is the Magnum internal canister, which was intended to replace the HOT Mag. I'm not a fan of internal filters but it does a pretty good job of cleaning up messy water.

[afriend]

Thanks afriend for sharing your knowledge...

Just trying to understand, i was pondering this question myself. As this Purigen link (http://www.petmountain.com/show_product/11442-503319) clearly says Purigen basically controls ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. Are we are disturbing beneficial bacteria in long run?


Also, since Purigen does remove soluble and insoluble impurities/salts from water chemistry. Does it reduces TDS as well?

SeaChem claims that purigen controls ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, but I believe that "controls" is not the best word to describe what happens. Purigen absorbs organic compounds and thus less ammonia is produced by decomposition. This reduction in ammonia then results in less nitrite/nitrate. If ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are present in the source water then purigen has no effect on the amount added by the source water, so to my way of thinking, purgen does not control ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.

To my knowledge salts are not reduced by purigen, if you have information that it does, please point me where this is available.

Yes purigen removes some soluble and insoluble impurities, the most significant of these is organic compounds, but it does not remove all impurities by any means. My experience has shown that purigen is EXTREMELY effective at removing organic compounds to the point that I am amazed at how well it does this. However, in order to achieve dramatic results it requires good water contact as occurs in a reactor. The use of it has permitted me to develop a filtration system that reduces organic compounds to near zero in my show tank. The benefit of this is that tank maintenance has been reduced to one day a month and the tank remains in pristine conditions.

Since the use of purigen can result in less ammonia, the beneficial bacteria will adjust in numbers until there is a balance between the amount of available ammonia and the number of bacteria.

I have discussed the impact that purigen has on TDS with the techs at SeaChem. They claim that purigen does not change TDS. My experience indicates that it might alter TDS very slightly, perhaps increasing TDS by 2 to 4 ppm, but I do not know this for sure.

Hope that this is helpful.

Paul

[DJW]

I think of DOC as bacteria food. It is made up of carbohydrates, proteins and other compounds that are too small to be picked up by a mechanical filter.

When bacteria consume protein, they release ammonia as a byproduct. So, to the extent that Purigen captures protein and keeps it from being consumed by bacteria, it reduces the amount of ammonia, and therefore the amount of nitrite and nitrate. It doesn't directly absorb these forms of nitrogen. I agree with Paul, to say that Purigen "controls" ammonia, etc. is to put it rather strongly in my opinion. I would say that it traps some of the nitrogenous waste that would otherwise be decomposed and released as ammonia.

A reduction in the amount of ammonia wouldn't starve the beneficial bacteria, since the vast majority of ammonia in a well maintained tank is released by the fish.

I have never measured the TDS to see if Purigen changes it. Sugars don't conduct electricity, and proteins only slightly, so I would not expect to see much of a difference. Our TDS meters only measure conductivity, they don't detect dissolved solids like sugar. You can add sugar to water and the TDS will stay the same.

[afriend]

Dan,


A reduction in the amount of ammonia wouldn't starve the beneficial bacteria, since the vast majority of ammonia in a well maintained tank is released by the fish.

I agree with your statement above, but I think it is worth stating that a well maintained tank includes not only substantial water changes, removing uneaten food and feces, but also removing and cleaning any decorative items and wiping down the sides and bottom of the tank.

Paul