white poop please help!!

[Bc chick]

my checkerboard has white poop! fins are not clamped , he has not eaten and has been staying by himself in a corner , this morning when i came home from work he has starting to tilt on his side and straightened up when he seen me, he also has been looking really faded since yesterday and has been peppered since i got him 2 weeks ago, the tank is approx 50 gallons , i have had it running for 2 and half weeks , it is a bare bottom , i do not age my water and have not tested my ph swing, i have registered for the sight but have not yet gotten my activation code so i am using my friends account in my emergency. beaudry_2012@hotmail.com please send me my activation code , my name is Cindy. thnkx

i just checked my water levels ---- PH - 7.6 ------ nitrites - 0ppm ------- ammonia - 0ppm ------ nitrates - inbetween 0ppm and 5.0ppm

[Bc chick]

why is no one responding

[LizStreithorst]

You have not given us enough info to respond. Please fill out the form.

[Bc chick]

You have not given us enough info to respond. Please fill out the form.

are you kidding me? this is why no one has responded? wow....ill try to figure out how

[LizStreithorst]

The problem itself it obvious. It's hex. We need more information to find the underlying problem. Besides, it is Saturday. Not everyone is looking at the forum.

[Bc chick]

Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

white poop started this mirning
2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
sideways

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
metro 6sp
kana...10sp
treated for 50g


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
50 new tank cycled sponge from breeder nitrites were up day before yesterday i think it was cycling

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
every day 50-70% but did a 90% when nitrites were up the other day

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
barebittom

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

no have not tested ph swing

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____84.2

- ph _____ 7.6

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____0

- nitrate reading ____0-5

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____city


- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

new fish to new tank 7 juvies
10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this

[Bc chick]

how about a access code for her

[Bc chick]

i guess what i need to know is do we do wc?

[LizStreithorst]

How many fish are in this tank and what size are they?

[Bc chick]

7 juvies as stated in questionnaire

3.0 - 4.5"

[Bc chick]

do you see questionnaire?

[brewmaster15]

my checkerboard has white poop! fins are not clamped , he has not eaten and has been staying by himself in a corner , this morning when i came home from work he has starting to tilt on his side and straightened up when he seen me, he also has been looking really faded since yesterday and has been peppered since i got him 2 weeks ago, the tank is approx 50 gallons , i have had it running for 2 and half weeks , it is a bare bottom , i do not age my water and have not tested my ph swing, i have registered for the sight but have not yet gotten my activation code so i am using my friends account in my emergency. beaudry_2012@hotmail.com please send me my activation code , my name is Cindy. thnkx

i just checked my water levels ---- PH - 7.6 ------ nitrites - 0ppm ------- ammonia - 0ppm ------ nitrates - inbetween 0ppm and 5.0ppm
Hi Cindy,

Lets start this off on the right foot. Your access code was sent. The Problem is your email is a hotmail account and hotmail filters out the activation we send. If you had just contacted us, I could have resolved that in a moment. I understand you have a sick fish and are worried, but you need to be patient as well. You just signed up for an account today. I have manually activated your account.

Additionally theres a huge notice on this section that says... " BEFORE starting a new thread requesting help, please copy and paste the Disease Questionnaire and fill in the required information. This will help people give more timely and considered advice. Please click here for the Questionnaire! "
Its there because we want to be able to help you as best we can but need more information. Its not there to inconvenience members.

I see you posted the questionaire.. thats a good start. Now if you can post some pictures we can try to help you figure out whats best here.

Thank you,
al

[LizStreithorst]

First thing you need to do is test the pH of your tap water then compare the reading of water that has been added to a bucket with an air stone. It's OK to keep up with the Metro. You can't hurt a fish with metro, but for it to work you need to use it at the rate of 400 to 500 mg. daily for 12 to 14 days. I don't know how may mg. 6 spoonfuls is. I see no reason for Kanamycin at this point.

[Bc chick]

ok i just wanted to make sure u could see it. i asking her to log in. then can u somehow make this her post

[Bc chick]

hmmm just says one to two messures (included spoon) for every 10g

[Cindyangel]

this is cindy that had posted about white poop, what should i do?

forgot to mention that the poop that was coming out of my fish was about 2 and half to 3 inches

[LizStreithorst]

It must give the mgs somewhere. Read the small print.

[brewmaster15]

Cindy,
who is the manufacturer of the metro? seachem?
Its probably based on 250 mg per 10 gal.

ps..

I moved this thread to the beginners board because I could not merge the 2 in the disease emergency room so Cindy could post.

[Bc chick]

It must give the mgs somewhere. Read the small print.

so im assuming i should treat my tank as well right. three of us got fish from same sorce and third person has hex as well. i have no signs yet

[Cindyangel]

ok i have read everything possible and there is no place here that sais how many mgs for a spoon full, all i can say is the spoons are really tiny. should i be raising my temperature?\
also the metroplex is made by some seachem

[LizStreithorst]

Cindy, I know that you're freaked out. You need to relax. Trust me, this is not a life and death situation. First off, please do as I suggested and test a bucket of tap water with an added air stone and compare your pH reading to the pH of your water straight from the tap.

[Ryan925]

Sounds like they were put into an uncycled tank as well imo, from limited knowledge of situation.

[LizStreithorst]

Cindy, I know that you're freaked out. You need to relax. Trust me, this is not a life and death situation. First off, please do as I suggested and test a bucket of tap water with an added air stone and compare your pH reading to the pH of your water straight from the tap. I wouldn't trust a med that didn't give mgs on the label. I want to know the rate I'm treating at so I neither over dose nor under dose. Keep up with the metro. Use the high dose. You still need to change a lot of water every day but don't go over 50% until you find out if you have a pH swing.

[Cindyangel]

ok thank you i feel comforted to have some good advise right now , i am already on it, have my bucket going with an air stone , my ph was about 8.1 from tap, it was a little darker of a blue then my blue shade at 7.6, so im having to guess a little there, does this mean i should be testing the high range then? And should i go ahead with raising my temp? my temp right now iss 84.2
i am about to try and post a pic, just trying to figure out the size thing , this is the best pic i can get, the poop has fallen off of him but luckily he was sitting beside it on the floor of the tank so if you look closely you can see it there beside him, his name is Sunny btw lol

[brewmaster15]

Cindy, can you post some pics of the tank and fish please?

al

[LizStreithorst]

Like Al said, it would be a great help if we could actually see the fish. I don't want to advise you to raise the temp of the tank until I see what the fish look like with my own eyes.

[Cindyangel]

101870

[Cindyangel]

this is Sunny , the poop that came out of him is laying on the bottom beside him , this is the best pic i could get with him and his poop , the picture was hard to get on here though because of changing the size which i didnt know about but thats ok lemme know if you need any more and i will work on those too
sorry its kinda hard to see because the bottom of my tank is painted white from under the tank to look like sand and the poop is white and blending quite well

[Filip]

Hi and welcome Cindy.
You said that you use Metroplex - Seachem product .

This is the one you use right ?
http://www.seachem.com/metroplex.php

I have kanaplex and: neoplex products from them so I assume the measure scoop is 180 mg and it look like this:

101869

If this is confirmative so far let's all of us do some math to come up with a proper dose since Seachem medications tend to be way underdosed ,I'm guessing out of precautions for smaller and weaker fish.

5 gram metroplex bottle containing 70% active metronidazole equals 3.5 grams or 3500 mg of metronidazole .
If you have the scoop from the pic its a 180 mg level measured spoon (not heaped).
So 5000 mg the whole bottle contains exactly 27 level scoops and that leads us to approx. 130 mg of 100% metronidazole per scoop .
So to reach the proper dosage of 400mg per 10 gallons you would have to use aprox . 3 level scoops of metroplex , or 15 scoops altogether for your 50 gal. Tank.
It is also advisable to treat this dose every day for a period of at least 10-12 days after a >50% water change daily.
Its also advisable to dose metro in conjunction with elevated temps 90 Fahrenheits , and try to dose it before the light shut off since there are data that states that metrinidazole is photosensitive (looses its potency under strong light).

P.s. As Liz andvAl said , post some pics and the three of you don't panic or worry because Hex is common and ussualy not a detrimental disease.
Good luck Cindy .

[Cindyangel]

also i think i may have deleted a post where i had said that i got my bucket going with the air stone, so i am working on that step

[Cindyangel]

ok thank you guys i will use the dose advised
let me know if the picture went threw ok

[LizStreithorst]

Your tank looks like it could a good wipe down. Do it before you change water next. The fish looks fine, just a little miserable. Like Flip said, this is no big deal.

I almost forget...I suggest you raise the temp to 90. It's not necessary but it sure does help. Be sure you have lots of air circulation in the tank when you raise the temp. High temps rob water of oxygen.

[Cindyangel]

ok i have lots of bubbles in there now, i hooked up a few things. i medicated this morning and i have yet to do my daily water change, should i re medicate after water change? or would that be overdosing?
and yes my algae seems to overgrow quickly, i find myself often wiping it lol i have a bit of a higher watt for my plants

[LizStreithorst]

Always re-medicate after a WC Re dose the full 400 to 500 mg per 10 daily. Please don't add more kana.

[Cindyangel]

ok thank you, will do, i will post with updates

[warblad79]

ok thank you, will do, i will post with updates

I want to brought up something, I don't mean to be rude to you but members here don't to get paid nor obligated to response to anyone asking for help. So please be patient and respectful to others.

[Larry Bugg]

and yes my algae seems to overgrow quickly, i find myself often wiping it lol i have a bit of a higher watt for my plants

I didn't realize till Liz said that it looked like your tank needs to be wiped down that the pic is sideways and what looks like the side of the tank is really the bottom. I guess that might be why I didn't notice it's condition. Not a great picture but I think Liz was being really nice in the way she said this. It looks to me like the bottom is pretty nasty and it doesn't look like it is all algae. Perhaps a better pic of the tank would help (whole tank shot). Changing the water daily is just part of the maintenance that has to be done to grow them out. One of the main purposes of the water changes is to reduce the dissolved organic compounds in the tank that create a breeding ground for bad bacteria. With the higher temps we keep discus at the bacteria can grow very fast. Changing water and keeping the surfaces clean is the only way to keep the doc's down to a minimum. If algae is a problem then you have lights on too long. Algae is a result of an imbalance of nutrients, light and Co2. Usually the culprit is low Co2 and too much light. The solution is to either add Co2 or cut back on the lights.

[Ryan925]

I didn't realize till Liz said that it looked like your tank needs to be wiped down that the pic is sideways and what looks like the side of the tank is really the bottom. I guess that might be why I didn't notice it's condition. Not a great picture but I think Liz was being really nice in the way she said this. It looks to me like the bottom is pretty nasty and it doesn't look like it is all algae. Perhaps a better pic of the tank would help (whole tank shot). Changing the water daily is just part of the maintenance that has to be done to grow them out. One of the main purposes of the water changes is to reduce the dissolved organic compounds in the tank that create a breeding ground for bad bacteria. With the higher temps we keep discus at the bacteria can grow very fast. Changing water and keeping the surfaces clean is the only way to keep the doc's down to a minimum. If algae is a problem then you have lights on too long. Algae is a result of an imbalance of nutrients, light and Co2. Usually the culprit is low Co2 and too much light. The solution is to either add Co2 or cut back on the lights.

She did say she painted the bottom to look like sand. There is no way to tell how dirty it really is or if it's just that paint job. Regardless it doesn't look too clean. Unclean tank that isn't cycled is probably a recipe for disaster Cindy.

Aside from that I do have to agree with Warblad. I had posted on one of your duplicate posts that Al locked.

There are very knowledgable members here with invaluable advice.. If you are patient you will get the help and answers you are looking for. Keep in mind that these people have lives of their own and are not constantly monitoring this forum.

The more info you can give the more people can help you in a solution

[Cindyangel]

thanks everyone for the tips, also i have been patient and waiting for responses for i also cant wait on this forum , i am not bc chick those were separate posts from mine, and to this man above me, my tank is cycled , i would not put discus in a not cycled tank, if you read my water test my results were pretty good for water quality i thought, i do 50 to 70 percent water changes everyday , which i suck everything on the bottom , so other then the algae i guess you guys were seeing the white poop i was panicking about, i usually wipe the algae every 4 or 5 days but if it harms my fish in some way i will be sure to do it every day if i have to, for everything i have read about algae says that its safe for fish, but ill take the advise thats just why i didnt usually wipe it every day. anyways i just did my water change and cleaned all the algae, i was about to do my treatment and wondering if i should add some epsom salts as well? just a thought so please dont rip me apart if its a bad idea just tell me, also ill try to post a couple more pics of the whole tank if i can get them to that size it needs to be posted , and some good news is my Sunny has not had another one of those huge white poops since this morning , i wonder if thats a good sign

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Cindy, if the fish appears bloated or if it is passing something (like white poop) and is positioned with it's head tilled somewhat downward I would suggest adding Epsom salt. It acts as a laxative for the fish.
Pat

[Cindyangel]

thanks pat , how much epsom salts should i add? i just bought a fresh bag and havent used it before so dont know , tank is 50 gallons so you dont have to read back

[Cindyangel]

101882101883101884

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Cindy, I will look that up for you in the morning.
Pat

[Cindyangel]

they get a little skiddish for the first 20 minutes after a change so thought it would be a good time to get a pic of them all together, still worried though about my checkerboard , if you look all that black is peppering he was not black at all before , so i wonder if it has to do with this hex , and he is usually much brighter of a yellow so that worries me , i feel like he is really dulled out. also let me know if there r too many bubbles , i dont know if i went overboard when i was told to have lots lol

[Cindyangel]

thanks so much i will just medicate for now

[Cindyangel]

wanted to say thank you for doing all that math which i suck at lol i dose those amounts on a daily basis while following the rest of the rules , i dont know what i would have done without asking on this forum , so thanks to everyone to wanted to help.

[DJW]

... have my bucket going with an air stone , my ph was about 8.1 from tap, it was a little darker of a blue then my blue shade at 7.6, so im having to guess a little there, does this mean i should be testing the high range then?

Cindy, if it was reading 7.6 or bluer, the tap water pH is probably off the end of the color range on the color card, and you should test it again, straight out of the tap, using the hi range test. After the water has aged and aerated for 24 hours, test its pH, first with the low range. If it is dark blue again, use the hi range.

[Filip]

Cindy , algae are not directly harmful to discus , but they are rather indicator that you have unbalanced water and possible high levels of nutrients in water.
Dont worry about the bubbles either , you can't overdo them .The more oxigen levels the better .

The black spots and blackness that you see on your pigeonblood is called peppering and its only a sign that discus is not feeling well .It works the same way as stress bars work on other strains of discus. They are indicators that discus are generally bothered by something or not feeling well.So don't worry about that either.

If you dose Epsom salt for bloat the recommended dose is 1 table spoon per 10 gallons I.e. 5 TBS for your tank.
It ussualy works within a day so there is no need to redose that everyday like the metroplex you are dosing.

And don't worry about the math too , you are welcome to ask for any help or advice here :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Filip for including the Epsom salt info. :)
Pat

[Filip]

Thanks Filip for including the Epsom salt info. :)
Pat

You are welcome Pat :) .

[Bc chick]

Cindy , algae are not directly harmful to discus , but they are rather indicator that you have unbalanced water and possible high levels of nutrients in water.
Dont worry about the bubbles either , you can't overdo them .The more oxigen levels the better .

The black spots and blackness that you see on your pigeonblood is called peppering and its only a sign that discus is not feeling well .It works the same way as stress bars work on other strains of discus. They are indicators that discus are generally bothered by something or not feeling well.So don't worry about that either.

If you dose Epsom salt for bloat the recommended dose is 1 table spoon per 10 gallons I.e. 5 TBS for your tank.
It ussualy works within a day so there is no need to redose that everyday like the metroplex you are dosing.

And don't worry about the math too , you are welcome to ask for any help or advice here :)

see cindy...we were wondering about the bars n i kept forgetting to ask. cindys carnation and turk were really showing bars

[Bc chick]

Cindy , algae are not directly harmful to discus , but they are rather indicator that you have unbalanced water and possible high levels of nutrients in water.
Dont worry about the bubbles either , you can't overdo them .The more oxigen levels the better .

The black spots and blackness that you see on your pigeonblood is called peppering and its only a sign that discus is not feeling well .It works the same way as stress bars work on other strains of discus. They are indicators that discus are generally bothered by something or not feeling well.So don't worry about that either.

If you dose Epsom salt for bloat the recommended dose is 1 table spoon per 10 gallons I.e. 5 TBS for your tank.
It ussualy works within a day so there is no need to redose that everyday like the metroplex you are dosing.

And don't worry about the math too , you are welcome to ask for any help or advice here :)

im following as well n dosing my tank as we got fish from same source as well as a third person who has hex. i havent seen signs yet. i should also say that it was advised for me to take 200g of frozen brine shrimp add tease sp of metro and a teaspoon of kanaplex mix freeze into cubes and feed exclusively for 10 days. we started this today. opinions?

for the salt. you dont replace with daily wc?

[LizStreithorst]

I don't think I'd treat before I saw a problem with my own fish. If you see something amiss or the 3rd person does it would be wise for you both to treat. Sometimes one fish has a weaker immune system from all the others.

[Filip]

I don't think I'd treat before I saw a problem with my own fish. If you see something amiss or the 3rd person does it would be wise for you both to treat. Sometimes one fish has a weaker immune system from all the others.

I also agree with this . Even if you have 2 out of 10 fish in the same tank with white poop , you should only treat those 2 affected not the whole batch.
You only treat affected White poop or noneating discus.

As for the kanaplex what Liz said above ,I also agree and repeat that you don't need it for white poop.

Epsom salt should be administered as a laxative only if the discus looks bloated and full bellied , and one day treat is enough to relief constipation and bloat symptoms.

[Bc chick]

I don't think I'd treat before I saw a problem with my own fish. If you see something amiss or the 3rd person does it would be wise for you both to treat. Sometimes one fish has a weaker immune system from all the others.

Two out of four of us have it. Did u see this. Wasnt sure. Cindy has it as well as another girl

[Bc chick]

Ok just read this

[LizStreithorst]

Oh gosh. I hate to have to recommend treatment when you see no symptoms in your own fish, but in this case I think it would be wise. You know the dosage. BB tank, high temps, huge WC and all that, right? I buy my metro from Jehmco. The label says 250 mg per 10. Double it.

[Bc chick]

im going to do a 90% this morning when i wake n treat with praza something or other lol. its 2am n i find myself checking on them everytime i wake. liz, did you see where i said i treated food? what do u think of that? started the day beofre yesterday. cindy lost sunny on mojnday and another yesterday. not going so wel. she started a praz treatment as well. i by my metro from seachem. i believe i saw earlier filip posted the size amount of my spoon so i will refer to that in the morning. i took a video of them so you can see. i find they are breathing heavy. so i will treat with metro this morning. double dose scares me as the lable warns about overdosing but will follow your direction. id like to also do the praz treatment as a double precaution. what do u think? hmmm ill have to attach video later as i just realized that i swore in the beginning because someone came to the door as soon as i got all sat down and position in front of tank and fed them n started taping lol. i will have to try to cut that out somehow

[Akili]

Are these the fish you got this week that you medicating? Breathing heavy does not mean they are sick all the time.A sudden change in water chemistry can cause the fish to breath rapidly. also What are your water parameters.

[Filip]

im going to do a 90% this morning when i wake n treat with praza something or other lol. its 2am n i find myself checking on them everytime i wake. liz, did you see where i said i treated food? what do u think of that? started the day beofre yesterday. cindy lost sunny on mojnday and another yesterday. not going so wel. she started a praz treatment as well. i by my metro from seachem. i believe i saw earlier filip posted the size amount of my spoon so i will refer to that in the morning. i took a video of them so you can see. i find they are breathing heavy. so i will treat with metro this morning. double dose scares me as the lable warns about overdosing but will follow your direction. id like to also do the praz treatment as a double precaution. what do u think? hmmm ill have to attach video later as i just realized that i swore in the beginning because someone came to the door as soon as i got all sat down and position in front of tank and fed them n started taping lol. i will have to try to cut that out somehow

Im so sorry for Cindy's loss and her bad start with discus .
its kind of ungrateful at this moment to try to guess why did her fish die but I have a feeling that its not a white poop related. As me and Liz said earlier ,white poop is not fast killing and detrimental disease. I'm thinking it might be sudden ammonia spike from an uncycled tank as the fish are newly arrived .

If you already started metro dosing check if your measure scoop is the same as shown on my pic .
If its the same 180 mg scoop you can safely add 3-4 LEVEL scoops per 10 g.
I wouldn't add praziquantel at this point .I wouldn't had even start metro at the first place IIWY because your fish were fine , but now since you have started it , proceed and finish the 10 day treatment.

[LizStreithorst]

That sounds right, Flip. Hex kills slowly over time, It has to be a water thing,

[hdhong]

Cindy,

I've had the same problem that you had 3 weeks ago. I followed Liz's advice as well as the method from Miranda (Chicago Discus). I used Metronidazole that I bought from Jehmco. The brand is ARG. I double doses the amount that was suggested from the container. Raised the temp to 90F - 92F with added air stones. I do 50% water change daily and redose the Metro after water change. I treated for 9 days since I had to leave for a week vacation, so I could not treat for the 10th day. When I was on vacation for a week I left the temp at 90F - 92F with added air stones as well. I came back on Friday 9/30/2016 and all my fish are better. They're eating now and not hiding anymore.