Bad Tail... Time To Worry...?

[Phillydubs]

Hey all... Hope everyone is doing well... Just returned this week from a long trip away, about ten days. Not sure who read my gut spilling before I left about some of my recent lets say erratic behavior. Anyways, I was fearful to leave my tank due to the overstocking and what not. Thankfully to report that all fish are fine, so far...

Before I left, one of my cupeia cross seemed to have nicked his tail, on the bottom side to the back, I will post pics. I saw it and have had fish w torn or tattered fins. The first time it happened I nearly cried, then I was talked off the ledge by a lovely member and this was years ago and now it is common and I chalk it up to drift wood and some chasing and don't pay it any mind.

However, this time around, it appears worse. I suppose the cut occurring before I left, mixed with a lack of water changes and food maybe helped to create more of an issue here.

I really hate meds, loathe hospital tanks and the like. I've always been a believer of good clean water. They got 100 changes every day this week except today but one is planned for tomorrow morning.

I was wondering when I need to start to go another route of water changes aren't working? I did my best to take pics, I took pics monday when I got back and I just took pics. It appears as if its healing but very slow, it also seems as if it almost rebroke or the piece that was left fully slit, not sure if that is good or bad. The fish has also been rather dark and not really attacking food but hanging in the back for floaters...

Is it common for fish to get dark and loose appetite when fighting off an injurt, I want to say from past experience yes?

Anyway who can help or cares to chime in I greatly appreciate it. 102685102686102687102688102689102690102691

[Ryan925]

Man what a bummer. Wish I had some advice for you. Hope it all turns out ok.

Seems these odd little injuries can occur quite often but are usually gone quickly with the clean water. I notice little knicks here and there but try not to freak.

All the best Phil

[LizStreithorst]

If the fish weren't so dark I'd think that the only thing needed was lots of good clean water. But your fish is very dark. I'd ask for advice if I were to come home to a fish looking like yours, too.

Without being offered advice, I'd remove the fish to a 20 and treat with Furan 2, Strange that all your other fish are fine.

[RogueDiscus]

Hi Phil,
Bummer! The big guy I'm breeding right now actually cut off almost the bottom half of his tail fin (caudal?) on the edge of a glass top on the way back into the tank, the one time I took him out to measure! It took a while, but it has grown back well. You can tell it's not perfect, but he's not a show fish now anyway. So I'm guessing yours will grow back. I also recently posted about an infection at the base of the ventral fin on one of my Snow Whites. At Al's suggestion, I swabbed it with hydrogen peroxide and it seems to be healing, although slowly. Just ideas.

[LizStreithorst]

That is wire poo I see in the next to the last pic, isn't it?

[LizStreithorst]

That's white poo I see in the last pic, isn't it?

[Phillydubs]

No Liz that's not white poop it's a floating black worm. No signs of white poop.

Also these fish are very dark to begin with he's almost a dark maroon color.

[LizStreithorst]

If that is the case big WC's should do the trick..

[Filip]

Take my advice with a grain of salt Phill but what i would do IIWY is a PP dip for this fish and straight in a new 100% fresh tank with a little salt .
At least it will prevent any secondary bacterial or fungal buildup that ussaly take advantage on the wound and the sterile enviroment will help the rocovery .
i also found PP dip usefull for dark /black discus , for stripping the discus from the excess slime coat which in this case is abused from and filled with bacteria .
If there is any visible improvement after this first dip , you could do another in a few days after the fish recovers from the shock a bit .

Good luck Phill .

[Phillydubs]

Is there a link to do such a dip and where do I order the meds ?

[Second Hand Pat]

Phil, do a salt dip instead, serves the same purpose without having to buy anything. Better yet flag Al with a pm and see what he says.
Pat

[Phillydubs]

Epsom
Salt or like sea salt? Salt water tank salt ?

[two utes]

I'm with you in regards with meds. It dosn't seem too bad, but l would add some salt.

[Second Hand Pat]

Epsom
Salt or like sea salt? Salt water tank salt ?

Normal salt Phil, there is a thread on doing a salt dip http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?70580-How-To-Do-a-Salt-Dip&highlight=salt+dip. The fish needs to go in a clean QT tank after the dip. I would still suggest asking Al about this.
Pat

[Phillydubs]

UPDATE:

I wanted to update all of those who chimed in and helped and also to get some more advice and feedback...

So, after all of your input and a nice chat with Al, I went with the clean water for a few more days. Zero progress and zero appetite. From there I began Furan2 treatment on thursday evening. The fish has been getting daily 100% changes and a furna packet each day.

He seemed to be getting better, color regained... Was approaching food but not eating yet. I had a wedding late saturday night so I went down yesterday am to clean him and I noticed that the fin had fully split. It was connected with a hole earlier, the thin piece that remained split and now it is full disconnected...

Al has been very encouraging and told me he has seen some discus heal up from some nasty injuries and to stay the course.

This seems like a real bad spot for the injury though and I am doubtful... I am very disappointed as this was a lovely fish and one of my all time faves... :(

[Phillydubs]

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[RogueDiscus]

Oh wow Phil,
It was hard for me to make out the size of the hole from you original pics, but I can see it now! But like I mentioned earlier, I had one regrow that much of his tail before. Good luck!

[Second Hand Pat]

Ouch Phil, if part of the body tissue is missing this will be permanent I think.
Pat

[Phillydubs]

Thanks Steve and Pat...

I hope I am as lucky as you Steve... We shall see...

Unfortunately I think Pat may be right...

Crazy how this little hole became this big thing...

Now I am like maybe I should have started treating sooner... I don't know :(

[Dhavalsp]

Ouch, this seems external, if it is growing at a very fast rate, I would just scrape the surface a little and dab the affected area with hydrogen peroxide, use one of those ear buds. do it every day for 3-4 days and it may show some difference. This can be done in addition to any other treatment you are doing.

I have tried this on german rams and it worked.

I hope it bounces back..

[Phillydubs]

Dhaval,

Thanks for the tip and words...

So you remove the fish and just blot it with some hydrogen peroxide? I have never done this but I am willing to try anything...

It is def external, it is a run in with some drift wood that started all this... It doesnt appear to be diseased in anyway or the area doesnt seem to be infected

[RogueDiscus]

The HP is what I did with mine, too. Q-tip. Did Al suggest that?

[Phillydubs]

Steve,

I saw you mention that in your inital response to me. I don't believe Al suggested that... I can try it though, i guess it can't hurt right?

Do you have any before and after pics of your guy? How did it happen again? How long did it take to get back to some form of decency? Did you only do the HP swab or did you use meds as well?

[RogueDiscus]

Here's a link to my thread. It just appeared. I don't have a pic, but it has slowly improved and is now almost completely gone.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?125982-What-do-you-think-this-is

[Dhavalsp]

Dhaval,

Thanks for the tip and words...

So you remove the fish and just blot it with some hydrogen peroxide? I have never done this but I am willing to try anything...

It is def external, it is a run in with some drift wood that started all this... It doesnt appear to be diseased in anyway or the area doesnt seem to be infected

Yup, just scoop the fish out, and dab the place with a Q-tip...the fish will do fine outside the water, scrape the affected surface, if you see any dead or infected area, I think a dry Q-tip will do the trick and remove any dead material...then hydrogen peroxide(H2O2)...dab for 10 sec...wait 5 sec..dab for 10 sec ( you can do one more round of dab if the fish looks comfortable...repeat again next day...avoid gills and eyes , the slime will get damaged but don't worry too much about it,...I think you get the 3% solution, no need to dilute further...

I think this one will grow out completely if it recovers...good luck

[bluelagoon]

Altho,it is a good antiseptic,H2O2 on a heeling wound should not be used.It slows the heeling process down by destroying new tissue.Iodine might work better in this case.I had a discus that got burned on a heater and this looks like the same kind of wound.It grew back and appears to look normal but it took about a year or so.H2O2 can be used initially but not continued applications.

[Phillydubs]

Thanks for the info Mervin...

I am going to stick to my furan treatments for now I think. I hope he starts to eat soon because he isn't now that I see...

This may seem weird, but right now he is in a 10 gallon, it was all I had spare. I am dumping buckets of water in to fill it. I try to dump slow but I noticed if some water rushes in, I guess the current moves the fins a lot. Could I be causing more damage doing this... I need to go with a slower pump over maybe....

[bluelagoon]

Furan II is what I would have gone with.

[Phillydubs]

An update on 2AHolez... that's his new gangsta street name... FYI

I got him to eat tonight and his color seems good...! I am happy that he has eaten and I hope this is progress!!

[rickztahone]

Don't feed so much that there is food left over. I never feed during medicating

[Ryan925]

An update on 2AHolez... that's his new gangsta street name... FYI

I got him to eat tonight and his color seems good...! I am happy that he has eaten and I hope this is progress!!

Nice to hear Phil and great street name. Think the other fish will be putting some respeck on his name if he recovers lol

[Phillydubs]

Really Ricardo?

I thought t would help him fight by getting food in him?

Ryan they best or else !

[rickztahone]

Again, it is how I have always administered meds. When the meds are over I try often a little food to see if they have gained back some appetite

[woopaul5]

Best of luck to you Phil!

[bluelagoon]

I've always found it better to put meds in their food if possible.Especially,if you have an internal bacterial infection in the gut or is systemic/in the blood.I soak antibiotics in black worms for 10 minutes prior to feeding.I found this has worked good for me.