Considering adding Discus to a clown loach tank....Discus newbie questions...

[DONTKNOWYET]

I joined the forum a while back but didn't post much if any as I've never kept Discus yet. I've been an on and off reader though..

Now I have some spare room and its been crossing my mind lately if I should get discus finally....

The tank is a heavy duty Round polyethylene above ground inside pond. Its just over 4f diameter, roughly 2.5f tall. Right now it holds around 200G because its not filled to the top but only to the 2f marker. The tank is black, open top. It has light but its not excessive.. I am a large water change fish keeper.

Right now the tank holds a group of about 7 four years old clown loaches with one exception of an older 8inch max size loach. They are all very friendly and non-aggressive towards the smallest of fish but they play around. The substrate is a thin layer of sand, barely covering the bottom. I have plants but they are in pots spread around and they are short, so there's plenty of water room above. I also have emersed plants overhanging and helping out with biofiltration which I have done for years on my tanks. Only that is one is going to have more emersed than submersed plants.

Here come the newbie discus questions....

I know they love to be in groups but I don't want overcrowding. I just want to take proper care of small number of fish and enjoy watching them. I am wondering...how can I properly pick just a few young discus, perhaps raise them or is it possible to keep just a breeding pair?

The problem here is that after I buy fish, I can't sell them back. Its a small country and the hobby is not huge here. And I get attached to fish. I can't let go, even runts, so I keep trying. But I don't want unhealthy, sick fish that can compromise my other fish.

My fear is diseases. I've had my share over the years and its really hard to remedy....

I can't afford to introduce any worms, parasites or infectious bacterial diseases to my current fish. I've a few other tanks too. I have a general knowledge how to deworm fish and the proper meds to cover all spectrum. Do I need to do that as a necessity to any discus I buy? I've only done that on a per need basis with other fish so far. I just fear discus carry all those nasty things you only read about.....
My fish are healthy and I don't want to wreck my hobby with a bunch of good looking, disease carriers....That's the only thing that has been keeping me away from discus...

All I know about picking discus, is looking at their eye size and compare to their body size. I'd appreciate some genuine comments on picking young discus, or links that provide the information...

What's the minimum number and what is the best number? How long after quarantine, if all goes well, can I introduce them to the main tank?

What else do I need to know that is of immediate necessity?

And I forgot to ask, or I assumed that for the most part they'd get along with clown loaches?

[NEangler]

Discus and clown loaches are not a good mix long term. Tiny clown loaches don't seem to bother discus of various sizes. But the larger ones you have will bother just about any discus of any size ime. Your discus will never feel comfortable during feeding times esp. when feeding from the bottom of your tank which discus love to do. I tried a large group of 5 to 7inch discus with my 4 to 10inch clowns in my 300gal and it didn't even come close to working out. The discus sat high up in the water column nervously in a group at most times. Your discus may get some food here and there, but I don't see them ever thriving and being able to comfortable gorge themselves to grow properly. Clown loaches get active at night where the discus just want to chill. It will stress the discus furthur

[DONTKNOWYET]

Hi NE angler.

Thanks a lot for your comments. I appreciate your input and experience. I am still considering all angles. That's one of my worries. Stressed fish = sick fish.

But I know many claim they've kept the lot together successfully.

My clowns are not really nocturnal. They are more like "dusk" sort of fish. And they've grown with small fish since they were "inchers" and haven't bothered the smallest of fish so far, even for food. I've learned a few tricks over the years feeding different type of fish in a community tank so they get their share and don't bunch up or fight... But if clowns bully discus for no reason, that's another story...You can't get away with that.


Also, I do not wish to grow them in the same tank with the clowns, at least not until I am sure they don't hold any non-stress related/transferable diseases.

[gators111]

NE angler is right. Discus like to blow their food up off the bottom. They'll grab some as it falls, but mostly eat of the bottom. Clowns tend to be too boisterous for them and discus hate that. And they will out compete the discus for food.
As far as breeding goes, no way. A breeding pair should be kept alone. I can't think of a tank mate that would do well with discus eggs and fry. My hatchets, GBRs, and cories all try to get at either the eggs or fry. I've had the fry make it to wriggler stage in my community tank, but once they go free swimming, they are fish food instantly. Most breeding setups are a 20-30 gallon bare bottomed tank painted white on bottom and 3 sides, with a heater, sponge filter and breeding cone. That's it.
As far a minimum number. 6-8 juvies in a 75 gallon is decent starting point. Also, I don't know about your plants, but discus need temps of 83-86 F, or 29 C.

[DONTKNOWYET]

Hey galors111.

Thanks.

The most I hear about it, the most I get discouraged, again....

I do not intend to breed discus. I just want a few happy ones in my tanks, being a pair or a group. The eggs or young can get eaten and they will for sure with any fish around. Yes, clown loaches are egg eaters, so are all the fish I ever kept...

I've kept these clowns for years. They eat around a clock schedule....only when the tank lights turn off and the room light is still on and early in the morning when I get up and the light through the window illuminates the tank They sleep at night and they are most active on room light. Clown loaches really get used to a schedule and are used to feeding when you teach them to do so, at least mine are that way. That's how I've kept the rest happy. I've kept corydoras for years too. They do not eat fry unless it flies in their mouths. They don't eat the tiniest of new born shrimp either..hence they are the best shrimp tank mates...

Do discus feed with lights on? If they do, they'd have hours to explore their food....

The plants inside the tank are crypts and anubias. They don't mind any sort of temps. The rest are emersed.

A newbie question though, why do discus require 29C(83-86 F) if in the wild they are used to lower? Is it to do with how they are brought up in captivity or to do with their immune system not coping a bit lower?

Also, why just a sponge filter in their growing up setup? I know they don't like much flow but at high temps is a sponge filter good enough at getting enough oxygen for either fish or filter bacteria? How much flow can they really cope with and be healthy? I am not talking river like flow but at least decent surface movement and decent canister filtration.

[bluelagoon]

Hi and welcome.I would have to agree.No clown loaches with discus.Yes,I have seen them together;don't believe all you see on the internet.They can get big and seem very active and discus don't like that.Not sure if the loaches will like the warmer water.From what I have experienced discus do better in warmer water.When exposed to cooler water they begin to stop eating and in general stop swimming/or are less active and this could lead to issues.The atmospheric/barometric pressure will put "most" of the needed O2 in the tank;you have a lot of surface area which is a good thing.A filter like a FX6 would work great for a tank that size.

[gunnerschh2]

Hi, I just had to remove a 6'' clown loach from my discus 150 because all of a sudden he started to fight with one of the discus after over a year. I was suprised the discus was so tough & held is own. I would not mix them. Harry

[Kyla]

my school of clowns in my 210gal r crazy active all day and evening. too boisterous for my discus.

the clowns eat vigorously in a swarm like piranhas any time i add food to the tank. my discus would not be able to compete with them for food.

my clowns harass my parrot cichlids, sometimes they will swim alongside and nibble at their flanks. the parrots r tough and will swim in circles and bash them off. my discus would not handle this well.

[DONTKNOWYET]

Thanks guys. Thats what I needed to know. There are too many negatives.

Pity though as they would enjoy the space but I cant risk having stressed fish.

[gators111]

Sorry for not responding earlier. Discus come from the Amazon tributaries where the water is warmer. They breed when the rivers flood and they move into the flooded forest areas, which don't have much flow. But you can't compare a glass box to the largest freshwater ecosystem in the world. Discus in captivity require higher temps, even imported wild ones. As far as sponge filters, I was referring to breeding tanks. Any flow makes it hard for the new fry to attach to the parents and feed off of them. Plus, you don't risk them getting sucked up in the filter. Grow out tanks can be set up differently. Discus can take some flow, however, even in the wild, they tend to draft behind structure such as tree roots and stumps. Hope that helps.

[DONTKNOWYET]

Thanks Gators111.

I understand.

I am in search for new tank mates now...something like a school of outgoing non-aggressive, interesting fish. I want fish that can be happy for years in the conditions provided and can go along with my clownies long term. I can still mess up by accident in the mean time but the long term plan is a lightly stocked tank with clowns, some of my other small fish like corydoras, and a school of top dwelling peaceful enough fish. Right now I don't know what I am going to get after throwing the Discus plan away.

Thank you all for your comments.

P.S. As far as fry go I use pre-filters on all my externals because I keep dwarf shrimp. Otherwise they travel down the tube.... But fish eggs get eaten before they even get to a fry stage. All fish I've ever kept love themselves an egg breakfast...

[bluelagoon]

Google Pinstripe Damba or Paretroplus Menarambo.They might work with the clowns.

[DONTKNOWYET]

Thanks bluelagoon, will do