what cause 2-3 weeks fry die and how to prevent this happen

[jerry1973]

hi, everyone. i just new to breeding discus. last May I got my first batch fry about 60 after 3 weeks they start to die every day, the end of that only 18 survived.because that was my first time breed them , didnt know what was happened, then I search some different discus forum, most says fluke, gill parasite. and one hobbist says he had same problem but once he use " TRUMP BAKTOCURE"(aqua med from Hongkong) the problem is gone, no more dead fry. so I got one bottle meds in hand .
15/oct I got second batch egg hatched and got 40+wriggle , this time i focos on w/c , 100% w/c change daily, everything good untill 29/oct one fry leave the group stay alone, next day stay same,from 31/oct first fry dead,after 1/nov and 2/nov , only 5 fry left, of course i used " TRUMP BAKTOCURE" but not working.
twicw situation all same, at begining frys leave the group then they get dark, very weak, cant swimming properly, after that just found them dead.
is anyone can explan that and how to avoid that ?
thanks

[Albanets]

Look up '4 week syndrome', it might be gill flukes

[John_Nicholson]

Could be flukes, could be bacterial, could be internal parasites finally had enough time to accumulate in the fry. There is no one problem that leads to this. It could be multiple things. If you have a fish pathologist around send them some of the fish and find out what your problem really is.

-john

[fisher]

Best treatment for breeding pair is :
1 - clean pair with short path dosage is 2 ppm/ p.p / 4hour in day 1 , 4 , 7 . And after every treatment add 1 table spoon salt/40 liter .
2 - day 10 , 13 ,15 ,30 from fry free swimming add 1ppm/ pp / for just 1 hour .
It work with me very well .
I send fish Photos is treated with this method now is 18 month old and in very good shape .103706
103707
103708
103709
103710

[jerry1973]

thanks all for reply, I will look into that. fish pathologist and microscope will tell whats cause, but i need take while to find someone do that.
so meanwhile i gona try fisher's recipe, its work for you, i hope it works for me as well. will start treament tomorrow. fingers cross

[nc0gnet0]

protozoan. Most likely feeding too much food and not cleaning filters frequently enough. 2x daily water changes is much better.

[jerry1973]

protozoan. Most likely feeding too much food and not cleaning filters frequently enough. 2x daily water changes is much better.

I was doing 2 w/c daily, it was small batch frys, I reduced water in the breeding tank , only about 50 lt water in the tank, I was change 30lt in the morning and 30lt in the evening and wasn't feed heavily, because they just start eat bbs and not all of them , and disaster happened

[jerry1973]

Hi, fisher. I read how to use pp from forum, but us gallon measurements just confuse me, we use liter here. I not sure if I am right, for 2ppm dose, is mean for 100 litre water add 0.2 grams pp?

[Rod]

Hi, fisher. I read how to use pp from forum, but us gallon measurements just confuse me, we use liter here. I not sure if I am right, for 2ppm dose, is mean for 100 litre water add 0.2 grams pp?

1 mg/l = 1 ppm

[jerry1973]

1 mg/l = 1 ppm

thanks

[twocat]

My fry are not making it. I cleaned this tank 2 x a day since they were laid on November 24th. 75%water change 2 x a day, wipe down and sponge filter cleaned every day. I did a treatment 0f protozoan a week before they were laid. I found one dead 3 days ago, 2 dead yesterday so I did a treatment of protozoan for one hour. Today 4 more are dead so I did a treatment of protozoan as directed on the bottle (1 tsp per 20) and left it in the tank. This tank has been kept clean.

I plan on changing the water tonight and doing a new treatment of protozoan. The fry all seem to be doing well when you look at them. they are eating BBS and are still with their parents.

There are 70 fry left and I plan on moving there parents out next week. the tank is a 20 gallon.

Any suggestion on what I need to do?

I am hoping that this will be my first successful batch.

Mark

[Willie]

Maybe we should start with some data. What are the symptoms (prior to death)? Are they hanging near the water surface or sinking to the bottom? Are they gasping (breathing rapidly)?

Willie

[twocat]

They seem fine. swimming next to the parents, not gasping. Eating BBS. eating some off of the parent. Each morning I wake up and a few are dead. None of the fry are swimming funny.

Mark

[warblad79]

Maybe the parents started killing them because they are getting irritated...I usually removed the parents after 2 weeks...I have a pair that would dash and killing the fry...if I were you I would observe them very carefully. That's how I learned breeding...if you just keep posting you will get all kinds of advices from different sources...try to avoid any medication if you see a weaker fish cull it right away. If you more fish started getting sick and dying cull the whole batch which only means they are weak fry.

[twocat]

Thank you

[Willie]

There are no obvious symptoms, so I'm not about to recommend any medication. I would try to wean fry onto beefheart as soon as you can. They will take minced beefheart as early as 11 days free swimming. Once they're on beefheart, you can remove the parents and watch them grow.

Good luck, Willie

[twocat]

I have been feeding the parents beef heart but I will start cutting back on the bbs. I lost 2 overnight but hopefully this issue will stop.

Mark

[CliffsDiscus]

Primary slime disease and secondary overfeeding
with bbs.

Cliff

[Albanets]

I think I know. If they started dieing after you started with BBS, you might have scooped some shells with BBS. When fry eats shells, they die. Collect BBS carefully, using light (BBS is attracted to light, while shells float to the top.)

[Alta]

I had the exact same issue. When my baby discuses reached over 4 weeks old I started having several deaths every day. I eventually figured out my problem and it was bacterial. My harvesting method for hatching baby brine shrimp was flawed and introducing bacteria into my hatchery ie BBS. When I took my airstone out to gather BBS, it would lay in contaminated water from the hatchery. I was using the cheap San Francisco Bay hatchery. It is a black box with a hole in the center where you would place a vial of water and the shrimp would swim into. I would have to take out the airstone to put the vial, it was then it fell into waster water that would sit in the bottom of a spare tank to hold the hatchery. Well I fixed that problem. I treated the tank with erythromycin and the babies stopped dying off. Got to be careful of feeding contaminated food that is for sure. I was doing 20% water changes using RO water every day, cleaning waste, running a UV sterilizer but no luck in stopping the slaughter. Such a shame I had over 60 healthy baby Blue Diamonds, now I am down to 5. This was my first batch so now I know what to look out for. Keep that food and tank utensils sterile. Hope this helps someone.

[brewmaster15]

9 out of 10 times people are either introducing shells when they feed baby brine shrimp or they are inconsistent with feeding.They get busy with life skip a few meals or slack off because something comes up and then they feed maybe too much and the fry over eat.


The other culprit is nitrite poisoning and it usually goes hand in hand with the other one. People tend to think their tanks are cycled when they raise fry... and they are for tiny fry on the back of a pair.But sometimes when fry grow fast and you feed alot and maybe miss water changes you will get micro spikes of ammonia and nitrites. The nitrites are absorbed and internalized and lead to brown blood disease and death. Consistent large water changes are really your best defense here as it removes the ammonia products..

hth,
Al

[warblad79]

I had the exact same issue. When my baby discuses reached over 4 weeks old I started having several deaths every day. I eventually figured out my problem and it was bacterial. My harvesting method for hatching baby brine shrimp was flawed and introducing bacteria into my hatchery ie BBS. When I took my airstone out to gather BBS, it would lay in contaminated water from the hatchery. I was using the cheap San Francisco Bay hatchery. It is a black box with a hole in the center where you would place a vial of water and the shrimp would swim into. I would have to take out the airstone to put the vial, it was then it fell into waster water that would sit in the bottom of a spare tank to hold the hatchery. Well I fixed that problem. I treated the tank with erythromycin and the babies stopped dying off. Got to be careful of feeding contaminated food that is for sure. I was doing 20% water changes using RO water every day, cleaning waste, running a UV sterilizer but no luck in stopping the slaughter. Such a shame I had over 60 healthy baby Blue Diamonds, now I am down to 5. This was my first batch so now I know what to look out for. Keep that food and tank utensils sterile. Hope this helps someone.

20% WC per day is not enough...I would normally do 150%-200% twice daily up to 12 weeks old. I would lose some but not anywhere near 10 or more. But most of them are runt or cull so it's OK. Also I don't used RO because its strip all the nutrients and water should be aged for 24 hours for stability.