Help with sick discus

[andreasch]

Hello,
i know i make this post in the wrong section, but am not allowed to write a post under "disease" forum, and i really need help.

I have a 600 liters planted aquarium with discus (and some clown, tetra, ramirezi). I have the discus for months, and the last fish i added was some tetra 2-3 weeks ago.

Few days ago (on Thursday) 2 of my discus showed signs for fungus on them, so i started a treatment using waterlife Protozin. Yesterday one of my healthy discus, looked like breathing heavy, opening his gills more than normal. Also he wasnt eating since yesterday. I didnt finish my fungus treatment yet. Today is the last day of the treatment. What i shall do? Do you know what is this, and what caused it?

I made water tests and thats the results:
NH3 , NH4 = 0
NO2 = 0
Cl = 0
PH = 7,5

Thank you very much

[andreasch]

103822

not sure if this can help, but thought to upload a photo as well

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Andreas, you can create a thread in the emergency room section and I moved your thread to that section of the forum. Here's a link to the disease questionnaire http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete. Please complete the questionnaire.

We have found most meds are not effective in a planted tank. Best to remove the fish to a bare bottom hospital tank in order to treat effectively.
Pat

[andreasch]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

The problem appeared 2 days ago. One of my discus looked like heavy breathing, opening his gills wide open. The only thing happened on the aquarium the last days, is that I started fungus treatment (using waterlife protozin) because I have seen fungus signs in other discus. Fungus treatment finished last night.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Heavy breathing
Not eating
No energy. Just hiding in corner of aquarium under some plants.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

I didn’t use any medication for it, because I was doing another treatment when the problem appeared. And I have no idea what treatment to do anyway


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

Tank size : 600 liters
Tank age : Tank is brand new. 1 year old
Fish : 7 discus (5 around 10cm, 2 at around 5cm), 3 clown fish 10cm, 1 ghost knife fish, 15 neon tetra, 12 rummynose, 10 sharpae tetra, 3 ramirezi

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

10% water change per week

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

Tank is in use just 1 year now. Tank is planted with sand substrate, 50cm deep.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

Don’t understand what this question means, but the ph of water is 7,5

8. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____ 29 C

- ph _____ 7,5

- ammonia reading ____ 0

- nitrite reading ____ 0

- nitrate reading ____ 0

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____

Using tap water

9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

Last fish added 3 weeks ago. Last plants added 1 week ago

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[Second Hand Pat]

Andreas, I would suggest increasing your water changes to 50% daily. Clean water is generally the best remedy with discus.
Pat

[jmf3460]

Andreas, I would suggest increasing your water changes to 50% daily. Clean water is generally the best remedy with discus.
Pat

Andreas, I agree 100% with Pat here. Another thing to point out, you have a zero nitrate reading is this for sure? If so are you sure your tank is cycled? In a cycled tank one should have some nitrates that measure to something. Water changes keep them very very low but literally zero might mean you have a mini or a start cycle going on.

At the very least, do a huge water change for the next 5 days and see if it helps.

[Phillydubs]

Also... I assume your tetras or the last fish added were direct adds to the tank...

Seems like you may have introduced some nasties in that tank and its getting the discus

[andreasch]

i will make the huge water change the next days like u suggested and see what happens. About nitrate ill repeat the test and let u know the value i get. maybe i made a mistake on my first measure. My last tetras were indeed added directly to the tank, but that was like 3 weeks ago. How u recommend to make my future fish additions to my tank to ensure i dont add some nasties to my discus?

One more question. Due to the fact that i dont have a hospital tank in order to transfer my sick discus in case of a sickiness, and i do the treatment straight into the aquarium, do you recommend the use of UV system in cases of treatment? To ensure that my healthy discus dont get affected ? I know the continues use of UV destroys discus immune system and i dont wanna use it, but if i use it in short term and only when needed is safe and beneficial?

[jmf3460]

i will make the huge water change the next days like u suggested and see what happens. About nitrate ill repeat the test and let u know the value i get. maybe i made a mistake on my first measure. My last tetras were indeed added directly to the tank, but that was like 3 weeks ago. How u recommend to make my future fish additions to my tank to ensure i dont add some nasties to my discus?

One more question. Due to the fact that i dont have a hospital tank in order to transfer my sick discus in case of a sickiness, and i do the treatment straight into the aquarium, do you recommend the use of UV system in cases of treatment? To ensure that my healthy discus dont get affected ? I know the continues use of UV destroys discus immune system and i dont wanna use it, but if i use it in short term and only when needed is safe and beneficial?

regarding adding fish directly to your tank without quarantining them: I think everyone wishes they could trust even the most reputable of fish stores and online sellers that their fish are free of disease, but the bottom line is why risk it. why risk a $100 discus health over a $2 tetra. not having a quarantine tank isn't the hugest of deals but I think eventually everyone learns the hard way that its best to quarantine and treat all new fish

regarding UV: no, in my experience and opinion, UV is useless. Unless you have free floating algae in your water column, it has no benefit that isn't trumped by good fish husbandry. In other words, large daily water changes and keeping your tank clean is way better than having a UV.

[andreasch]

the problem with my discus continues, and actually now all my discus are just hiding in the corners of aquarium under plants, and not coming out even to eat.
I dont see any signs of fungus / white spots on them. The only thing i noticed is that they flick their fins sometimes, and 1-2 of them rarely scrape on plant leafs. Is these signs of some internal parasites maybe?
My water parameters are all good, i took also sample to petshop to check it for me. i use Waterlife vitazin, and brighwellaquatics Discus Code, to help them but dont see any improvement. Am doing 20% water changes daily.

What u suggest me to do? I was thinking maybe to start treatment with Waterlife Sterazin in case they have some body flukes or internal worms. What is your opinion?

[jmf3460]

Andreas, is it feasible for you to try a different water change regimen? Like would you be willing to try an experiment? I propose you up your water change to 50% daily for 2 weeks an do nothing more but report back in two weeks and monitor progress. Would that be something you are willing to try?