Why does my male keep eating the eggs?

[remy554]

:huh:
My male Discus keeps eating all the eggs and doesn't even attempt to fertilize them. I made this video can anyone tell me if my tank setup is off. Or if you can tell anything is off with my Fish.

I do a 50% water change daily.
I make my ready water the night before.
I use prime, discus buffer, epsom salt, normal salt to treat the water.
I feed a homemade beef heart mix + frozen brine shrimp/blood worms in a rotation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAtHtJPuC-I



103901

[warblad79]

Any reason for treating Epsom salt, normal salt and discus buffer?

[Larry Bugg]

Is the pair or the male proven? How do you know it is a male?

[remy554]

I use the Discus buffer to lower my HP and soften my tap water.
Epsom, to add some mineral content to the water and help remove toxins from the fish.
Normal salts, to help the fishes slim coat and it also softens the water. I have very hard water.

[gators111]

It's probably not your tank setup. I've been having the same problem with one of my males. He eats the eggs almost directly from the ovipositor. But he's not even a year old yet. I was hoping he'd get it right after watching the other males do it right, but nope. Just give it time, practice and patience.

[remy554]

Yes, I bought my fish advertised as a "breeding pair" from a breeder online. He is still selling the same type of discus, as "breeding pairs" today, I just checked his website.
I have had the pair for 8 months.
This is the first time I have owned discus. So when I received my "breeding pair" I didn't realize how small they were (about 3").
The fish are much larger now, just over 6". To figure out just how big the fish are, I marked out lines on the glass with a dry erase maker and ruler.
The one fish that I know for sure is female has laid eggs six times with no help from the other fish. I have sat and watched the whole thing five times.
The bigger of the two fish is the one not doing anything and is the one that I think is the male. I think this because, the color is better(no dark spots) I have convinced myself that his fins are the shape of a male discus. But most people say there is no perfect way to sex discus other then seeing the fish lay eggs.

Any advise would be appreciated!

[remy554]

I have been learning patience. I could pass as a monk by now!

[Larry Bugg]

If they were 3" when you got them 8 months ago and are now 6" then we can surmise that their growth rate was probably normal which in tern means that at 3" they probably 4 months old, or there abouts. At this age there is absolutely no way they could be sold as a breeding pair. You simply can't sex discus at that age. Looking at the fins to determine sex will work about 50% of the time. Since you gave us some indicators that put their age at just about 1 year old it may very well be a male and female and the male is just too young. Females mature much faster than males. It is not unusual for a male to be 3 or more months behind the female in maturity. Or you may have two females.

[LizStreithorst]

Dump all the buffers and chemical salts that you have been adding to the water. They are not good for the fish.

[remy554]

Do you add anything to your water?
If so...
1 What?
2 How much?
3 How often?

:idea2:

[Second Hand Pat]

Do you add anything to your water?
If so...
1 What?
2 How much?
3 How often?

:idea2:

What are you doing for water now? Are you using tap, RO or a mix. What are your water parameters like; ph, KH, GH and TDS? I agree with Liz that adding Epsom and regular salt is not needed.

I will also suggest that if you bought the fish at 3 inches as a confirmed pair that the fish were misrepresented by the seller or the seller does not have a clue about discus.
Pat

[kris2341]

im rather curious as to who this seller is now, since he apparently has a website

[remy554]

I don't want to put him on blast just yet. My fish could still breed. But I'm am MAD that he sold me juvenile fish advertised as a breeding pair when they weren't even big enough to spawn. When I think of a "breeding pair". I think of an (ACTIVE breeding pair) you know, already laying eggs not eight months away from having a successful spawn.

I have always been an animal lover. I even once told my Mom that she was as pretty as a horse, because I thought horses were so awesome.

But saying that I did buy these fish to breed and make some extra money to support my FAMILY. Now eight months and two thousand dollars later no fry!

I know that I am the closest that I have ever been. I feel like if I would have gotten my fish from someone else...

I know it takes time for anyone.

I'm proud of myself and all of you. These fish need a lot of care, it is no easy task.

Thank YOU!!!

[kris2341]

But I'm am MAD that he sold me juvenile fish advertised as a breeding pair when they weren't even big enough to spawn. When I think of a "breeding pair". I think of an (ACTIVE breeding pair) you know, already laying eggs not eight months away from having a successful spawn.

I am pretty sure many others on the forum feel exactly the same way as you in this regard. When we think of breeding pairs, we think big discus 6"+ that have been laying and properly fertilizing eggs, so this is false advertising

As an animal lover, i can truly say that you have gone the whole distance so far, even to the point that perhaps your method of water preparation is a tad excessive. But it obviously works if you are able to get them to a respectable size and shape as i see from the video! good job!

As far as water though, you will eventually want to look into your TDS or GH/KH along with the pH as even though you are using a pH buffer, you might have too high of a hardness for the eggs to develop properly even if they ever got fertilized properly.

[Larry Bugg]

But saying that I did buy these fish to breed and make some extra money to support my FAMILY. Now eight months and two thousand dollars later no fry!


There is no extra money to be made from breeding discus. In the long run the cost of food, water and electricity are higher than what you will make.

[DJW]

The Discus buffer makes the water harder, and so does the Epsom salt. Regular salt doesn't soften the water. These salts have some specific temporary uses, but adding them on a regular basis serves no purpose.

[kris2341]

The Discus buffer makes the water harder, and so does the Epsom salt. Regular salt doesn't soften the water. These salts have some specific temporary uses, but adding them on a regular basis serves no purpose.

yeah i wasnt sure if the discus buffer actually softened the water if the starting water was higher than what it goes to. always thought it was a buffer for remineralizing RO water.

[DJW]

Discus buffer artificially alters one aspect of the water, the pH, while increasing the TDS. In nature, low pH water is typically soft water, with the acidic pH being more like a side-effect of softness rather than being by itself a magic bullet.

From Seachem tech support:

"Some people do report having better luck with successfully breeding discus in water with lower total dissolved solids (TDS), so if the issues persist and don't appear to be behavioral (eating the eggs/fry, babies or parents ignoring the other, aggression between parents, etc.), then you could try adjusting your water to see if this makes a difference. Any additives will increase the total dissolved solids, even buffers which won't increase the general hardness, so the only way to decrease the TDS would be to dilute the buffers..."

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/under-the-sea/2479-high-tds-when-preparing-water-for-w-c

[Galvatron]

Sound to me like "breading pair" was misrepresented. It's near impossible to tell the sex of a 3 inch juvie.
Yes, I bought my fish advertised as a "breeding pair" from a breeder online. He is still selling the same type of discus, as "breeding pairs" today, I just checked his website.
I have had the pair for 8 months.
This is the first time I have owned discus. So when I received my "breeding pair" I didn't realize how small they were (about 3").
The fish are much larger now, just over 6". To figure out just how big the fish are, I marked out lines on the glass with a dry erase maker and ruler.
The one fish that I know for sure is female has laid eggs six times with no help from the other fish. I have sat and watched the whole thing five times.
The bigger of the two fish is the one not doing anything and is the one that I think is the male. I think this because, the color is better(no dark spots) I have convinced myself that his fins are the shape of a male discus. But most people say there is no perfect way to sex discus other then seeing the fish lay eggs.

Any advise would be appreciated!

[gators111]

A breeding pair at 3"? Sounds like something fishy is going on. You also might want to check out Joey's (King of DIY) video on youtube about making money on discus breeding. I'm raising my first batch, and it's work. I can only imagine if I had numerous grow out tanks going.

[warblad79]

Breeding is fun but lots of work...in my case I don't see any bigger profit from it, just enough to sustained my hobby and gaining experience. Due to the fact that pretty much everything here in the US are expensive..

[CrazyAngels]

Breeding is fun but lots of work...in my case I don't see any bigger profit from it, just enough to sustained my hobby and gaining experience. Due to the fact that pretty much everything here in the US are expensive..

I completely agree with this statement. you would have to have an entire farm of discus in order to ever even get close to a profit. in my case I spend over $500 a month in water and electricity, so any money I make from my breeding fish is only to keep the food and equipment in working order with some spare hardware in case anything fails. I don't even get close to making a den't on the electric and or water bill, I do it for the love of the hobby and to provide good quality fish to the local market that they can enjoy, not to make a profit.