Mixing Sources?

[Tribblo]

Hello,
New to posting on the forum but not reading. lol

I've had my first discus tank forovera month now... 55 Gallon, 6 Discus, 10 Glowlight tetra dithers, and 2 BN plecs. Marineland Emperor 350, with plans to make a moving bed media 29 (or 20, planning on 29) gallon sump. 30C, just made the change from gravel to sand, a few bleheri's in there, will probably move over to silk plants.

My main question is about mixing sources of discus... I purchased 4 2" from a breeder in NJ (discusguy.com), and 2 4" from two different LFS. 2 Turquoise, 1 Super Red Turquoise, 2 Super Red, and one that I think is blood pigeon, not sure yet. I'll post pics of my babes in a bit

I skipped QT (which I'll likely get heat for...), but haven't had any noticeable problems concerning changes in behavior or disease. All have good color and are eating well.
Am I lucky or is not mixing sources of discus overrated?

My second question is that in the month+ I've had all of them, I've noticed growth in all but one, my tiny Turquoise from the breeder... He (Let's just assume it's a dude :D ) is probably less than 2 inches big, and hasn't grown much, if at all.
I feed 4-6 times a day, with a 10% water change every 3 days, 50% every 15 days. Even though it's adorable how tiny he is, I don't want him to be stunted and I want the best for all of them.
Should I put him in a separate tank? I imagine that would cause a lot of stress though, and I only have a spare 2.5 gallon available.
Sorry for all the questions :(

[Clawhammer]

Welcome to the forum.

You are very lucky on many fronts. Between lack of QT, mixing sources, and hardly any water changes, I am surprised they are eating and growing. Any way to bump up those water changes to 50% a day?

[Tribblo]

The growing hasn't been much, but they're definitely eating. I feed two types of high protein flakes, Mysis shrimp, brine shrimp (with and without spirulina) and beefheart, and they eat it all.

You mean 50% every day?

[Tribblo]

I did have one that passed, though. I originally bought 5 from the breeder and a red turquoise passed away. He didn't show any signs of anything, until his behaviour was off for a day or two and I found him dead the next morning.

[warblad79]

Sometimes problem would not occur in a next couple of weeks or so. Also if you don't increase your water change I can foretell they could end up pretty badly. Frequent water change is a must for small discus trust me on this because I already raised fry to adult.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Richie and welcome to the forum. Since you have been reading the forum I am sure you have noticed that there are two things young discus need. A good variety of food and clean water. This is how you get discus to grow well and keep them healthy. Many of us mix sources but only after following a fair strict QT process (and using a hero fish). You have been lucky so far but I would really suggest researching both food sources and raising young discus. You will find that most here raise discus in a bare bottom tank as properly feed discus generate lots of waste.

Here's a couple suggested threads. This is a good beginners guide to discus http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?125704-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus and this one is a hour long video by the Al, the owner of the forum and well worth the time to watch http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?122038-Are-you-new-to-discus-WATCH-THIS-VIDEO!.
Pat

[BmoreBraap]

Hey Tribblo-while Im also new here, I have learned a lot from this forum in just the past month. One of the main things being how important clean water is for Discus. The best way it was explained to me is that discus like water as close to our drinking water as possible, soft and clean. Discus have something called a slime coat, which is lot of hormones and they release this into the water-young ones much more so than adults. These hormones are no good for the fish to constantly breath and drink in and cannot be tested on a water test kit like API. So while you might think the water levels are OK, they actually may not be. Not to mention Discus food is VERY high in protein(as well as their poop), a lot of it being actual lean meat and that will literally rot away in the tank causing bacteria etc to form quickly. Thats why it is also important to clean up after their feedings.

You will more than likely see a nice change in your fish if you start doing at least 30% water changes daily, or at the worst 50% eod. Unfortunately juveniles require more care and WC than adults, but the end results will be very rewarding as opposed to someone else growing your fish out for you. Hope this makes some sense, Im sure someone more experienced can clear it up more. Good luck

[Tribblo]

Alright, I'll start to do larger water changes then. I'm already keeping a close eye on the discus but I'll watch them like a hawk from now on to see if there's any problems with them.

[Tribblo]

As for bare bottom, I've been aware of that, but I just need something pretty to look at :p I'm using a gravel vacuum to sucks up their poo daily.

Thank you for all the info guys, I appreciate it.
I'll probably do 50% every other day.

[Clawhammer]

Hi Richie, glad to see you are making modifications. The majority of discus keepers start just the way you did, including myself. Once I started to see the benefits to my fish that resulted from the changes that I made to my tank upon advice from this forum, I further followed advice and did daily water changes and removed the substrate. My fish are now big, strong, healthy, and beautiful. They are near adults, so in the coming months I will add sand and some driftwood back to my tank. Going bare bottom and daily water changes made it possible to get to this point.

There is a lot that can be done to make water changes quicker and easier, especially by throwing a pump or two into the mix. Making my water change a breeze was the best investment I made in my setup.

Good luck to you and I hope to see you around the forums proving updates!

[Tribblo]

Getting a pump is a good idea... maybe Santa will bring me one. :p

[Tribblo]

Is there anything I can do regarding the mixed sources though? Should I isolate the ones from the LFS, or is it too late?

[DiscusRob]

Probably too late, keep and eye on them and keep them healthy. QT all new arrivals.

[Clawhammer]

Is there anything I can do regarding the mixed sources though? Should I isolate the ones from the LFS, or is it too late?

I have not mixed sources before, but I think by this point they have all been exposed to eachother and moving them wouldn't be beneficial. I would focus on providing them clean water and good nutrition. Discus are pretty resilient if these things are provided. Also keep a close eye on them and read up about common diseases and symptoms. If one get sick (stops eating, hides all the time, turns dark) then isolation may be required.

[Tribblo]

Probably too late, keep and eye on them and keep them healthy. QT all new arrivals.

I would love to add some more, but I'm already maxed out at 6 in a 55. Unless adding the sump would allow me to get one or two more... is that a good idea?
Would love a golden or melon.

[Tribblo]

I have not mixed sources before, but I think by this point they have all been exposed to eachother and moving them wouldn't be beneficial. I would focus on providing them clean water and good nutrition. Discus are pretty resilient if these things are provided. Also keep a close eye on them and read up about common diseases and symptoms. If one get sick (stops eating, hides all the time, turns dark) then isolation may be required.

I've read up on some of the sicknesses, and will watch closely :) like I said, I had one that passed, but only showed strange behavior for a day or two and then passed.

[DiscusRob]

No, you are pretty much maxed out in the 55, time for another tank;)

[Tribblo]

Based on the guide above, I could probably fit one more, but I want some other opinions.
I'll have to get a bigger hospital/QT tank... probably a 5/5.5, since that's all I have space for. My 3 tanks are in my bedroom

[Tribblo]

Ah, post decided to refresh after I posted that comment.
Sadly I don't have enough room for more needy fish :(

[undel]

I'd eventually love to have both Hans and Kenny's discus in the same tank. They are so lovely.

I've read up on several topics via search, but thought I'd necro this thread as it's most recent. Aside from standard QT for new arrivals, there was discussion about how each strain probably harbors its own bacteria that they're all immune to, but that the fish will not necessarily have developed the immunities that the other group has, so when you mix, an outbreak of something or other is possible.

Everything I've read emphasizes a full 6 week QT and a hero fish. I was wondering if giving both groups a round of antibiotics even if they aren't showing symptoms may be advisable. Pros: Maybe it could wipe out anything they're harboring but not showing symptoms of so there's less for the other group to contract. Cons: It's going to stress the fish.

So I was hoping for a veteran keeper opinion on whether antibiotics are a good idea or not, and sort of what timeline would be ideal to give them a course of it.

My current plan is to have both groups in tanks @ 83 degrees, tap water w prime, tap water ph 7.2, cannister filters with established colonies, every day 50% water change, except when needed to clear out prazipro 100% change.

Day 1: Rest up/Destress
Day 2: Prazipro for one week
Week 2: Levamisole for one day after prazi is out of the water.
Week 3: Prazipro again for one week.
Week 4: Nada. Is this a good time to do a course of antibiotics? Or should I let the darn fish rest?
Week 5: Levamisole for one day.
Week 6: Rest
End of week 6: Enter the hero fish if all looks good.


Would adding an antibiotic be too much medication? If not, what do you recommend. I saw a lot of posts recommending metroplex. I've no experience with this med and previously used kanaplex in my old planted community tank and have a couple tubes of it sitting on my shelf. If I can use what I have, that would be great. But if metro is going to be better, I can pick some up.

I know mixing two groups is a risk, but I want to do anything I can to minimize the risk.