Is 84 Degrees Warm Enough for Discus?

[CammieTime]

So the 150W Ehiem heater I purchased for my 45 gallon grow out tank is not quite powerful enough to get the tank to 86 degrees. Full blast the heater makes the thermometer top out at 83.9 degrees - is this warm enough for Discus? The tank is in the basement and that thankfully has consistent temperature, but it is cooler down there in the winter and warmer in the summer. So, even though the temp is 83.9 right now in winter time, that does not mean that the temp can't easily go 86+ degrees in the summer.

My worry of adding another heater to the tank is that when it warms up in the basement the tank will cook. I suppose I could get a 300W heater, but I am not sure if that would solve the problem.

If 83.9 is OK for discus, then I would have some breathing room when the basement warms up in the spring.

[pitdogg2]

82 degrees is fine no need to keep them at 86 unless you are trying to kill ich.

[atlantadiscus]

What is the current air temps in the basement? Not sure I follow your logic on thinking a higher wattage or second heater would overheat your tank in the summer,as the heater has a built in thermostat that would automatically turn it on and off to maintain the temp you set it to?

Have you verified your thermometer is accurate? Cross check it with another thermometer to be sure.

[John_Nicholson]

82 is all you want or need.

-john

[brewmaster15]

84-86F for juvies

80-82 breeders

Those are what I use as guidelines here.

Al

[Ryan925]

I would recommend having a second heater as a backup anyway. If that heater is working 24/7 who knows what it's life span will be. I use a 300w and a 250 in my 75. You could have 1 heater or 5 heaters and shouldn't have to worry about "cooking" tank unless there is a malfunction. Do yourself a huge favor and get yourself and inkbird and connect both heaters to it

[bluelagoon]

150 watt is little too small for a 45 gal.;they would be more for a 30 gal. or smaller size tank.A 200W for a 50 gal. will work.If heaters are to small they tend to go on and off more frequently and even stay on longer than the larger ones;making then burn out quicker.

[pitdogg2]

150 watt is little too small for a 45 gal.;they would be more for a 30 gal. or smaller size tank.A 200W for a 50 gal. will work.If heaters are to small they tend to go on and off more frequently and even stay on longer than the larger ones;making then burn out quicker.

this is even more true if you're trying to keep the tank more than 15-20 degrees above room temp.

[CammieTime]

150 watt is little too small for a 45 gal.;they would be more for a 30 gal. or smaller size tank.A 200W for a 50 gal. will work.If heaters are to small they tend to go on and off more frequently and even stay on longer than the larger ones;making then burn out quicker.

What size heater should I get, 300W?

[pitdogg2]

150 watt is little too small for a 45 gal.;they would be more for a 30 gal. or smaller size tank.A 200W for a 50 gal. will work.If heaters are to small they tend to go on and off more frequently and even stay on longer than the larger ones;making then burn out quicker.

plainly stated in the post:)

But you have yet to answer. What is the ambient room temp that makes a HUGE difference as to what size you need. If your room is 60* and you plan on keep an 82* temp you will need a bigger heater than normal. I use a 250watt in a 75 my room is 68* my tank is 82* works well.

[Jenene]

82 is all you want or need.

-john

John, I have seen you post many times that 82 is the only temp to keep Discus at. I am just curious and not trying to stir the pot but every other post I have seen for growing them out is a bit higher than that. When you gave that advice a while back I turned my heaters down and noticed their appetites dropped noticeably. I kept it there for a week to see if they just needed some time to adapt. They did not. I raised it back to 84 and they went back to their hearty appetites. I now keep it there. They are not yet adults but healthy and growing nicely and just seem to do better in warmer water.
I have seen your enviable fish room and I know you are an experienced keeper. Do your tanks stay at 82 even in the warmer weather in Texas?
Again, I am just trying to learn why some seem to do fine at that temp while mine did not thrive and other experienced keepers suggest warmer water as well for growing out juvies. Would really appreciate your thoughts on this.

[John_Nicholson]

In summer my tanks will get above 82 but I do what I can to keep it down. Lots of people think they will grow larger fish at a higher temp but that is only partially true. At 12 months their fish might be bigger but at 24 mine probably will. Keeping them hot will make them eat more and grow faster for a little while but at what cost?

-john

[adrian31@outlook.com]

In summer my tanks will get above 82 but I do what I can to keep it down. Lots of people think they will grow larger fish at a higher temp but that is only partially true. At 12 months their fish might be bigger but at 24 mine probably will. Keeping them hot will make them eat more and grow faster for a little while but at what cost?

-john

Newbie here. Sounds like that might be the best way for their overall health and growth, but in my case @ 82F one out of seven of my Discus wasn't eating at all, two others were barely picking at food. The non-eater was spitting out food ( going on 3 weeks) was getting ready to treat for Hex until someone said to raise temp to 84F-86F. I raised it to 84.5F and immediately the non-eater started eating, the picky ones were ravenous. This all happened when I got my first group for my 180gal. Yes I did start feeding AL's FDBWs around the same time but I think raising the temp helped save my fish. All my fish are now eating alot and doing well, I feed 3xday.

[Jenene]

In summer my tanks will get above 82 but I do what I can to keep it down. Lots of people think they will grow larger fish at a higher temp but that is only partially true. At 12 months their fish might be bigger but at 24 mine probably will. Keeping them hot will make them eat more and grow faster for a little while but at what cost?

-john

Thanks John for your perspective. I am not sure I would call 2 degrees more - hot and I am not trying to grow gigantic fish. I just want to know that they are eating well and enough to stay healthy to grow to respectable adult size. As an after thought, to be honest I set my inkbird controller at 84 but with the +1 or -1 it is almost always exactly at 83.3. I do appreciate your thought process. Picking the brains of the people who have done this for a very long time is a great way to learn. I appreciate it. Thank you.

[Jenene]

Newbie here. Sounds like that might be the best way for their overall health and growth, but in my case @ 82F one out of seven of my Discus wasn't eating at all, two others were barely picking at food. The non-eater was spitting out food ( going on 3 weeks) was getting ready to treat for Hex until someone said to raise temp to 84F-86F. I raised it to 84.5F and immediately the non-eater started eating, the picky ones were ravenous. This all happened when I got my first group for my 180gal. Yes I did start feeding AL's FDBWs around the same time but I think raising the temp helped save my fish. All my fish are now eating alot and doing well, I feed 3xday.

Kenny, that is what I saw as well but to a lesser extreme. They just were not moving as much and were not showing a lot of interest in food. They ate but not like they do when they are just a bit warmer. One thing I have learned is to watch them they can pretty much let you know if they are not happy.

Glad to hear they are all doing well. At this point I feed 3 meals as well. They do love the home made beef heart mix. :grin:

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Kenny, that is what I saw as well but to a lesser extreme. They just were not moving as much and were not showing a lot of interest in food. They ate but not like they do when they are just a bit warmer. One thing I have learned is to watch them they can pretty much let you know if they are not happy.

Glad to hear they are all doing well. At this point I feed 3 meals as well. They do love the home made beef heart mix. :grin:

Jenene:

As I mentioned, raising the temp did appear to help three of my fish but the other four were eating fine and even grew in those first ~3 weeks. I can't disagree with John's post that keeping Discus @82F is best, I just wonder if he encounters fish that have a hard time at the lower temperature and if so how he resolves that.

Kenny

[Jenene]

Jenene:

As I mentioned, raising the temp did appear to help three of my fish but the other four were eating fine and even grew in those first ~3 weeks. I can't disagree with John's post that keeping Discus @82F is best, I just wonder if he encounters fish that have a hard time at the lower temperature and if so how he resolves that.

Kenny

Just ask him Kenny! It sounds like he is happy at a solid 82 for everyone. John are you out there?

[Fish Tank Travis]

I just wanted to mention that I read on my heater's box that it is not good to keep it at its max adjustment. If I remember correctly, it mentioned that the reliability of the heater drops and could cause it to get stuck on easier.

As far as another heater maybe cooking the tank, as another member mentioned, the heaters' thermostats will keep this from happening, provided they're not faulty. You could put 5000W worth of heaters in the tank and it would not get higher than the set temp.

[Fish Tank Travis]

One thing I don't understand is how people have several degrees of temp fluctuation between winter and summer ambient temps. It seems to me that the tank temperature shouldn't change, just that the heaters would run less. Can anybody else explain why this would happen?

[bluelagoon]

Usually it's because folks are not using enough wattage for the volume to heat.A proper heater should keep your tank from fluctuating.That is what the built in thermostat is meant to do.Always go a little bigger if you're not sure.

[NeonTetra]

I dont know if anyone mentioned above, it is important to have an aquarium cover for the stability of temperature, if you dont have a cover you have less stability and temperature fluctuations will be more common, also with a cover you will save more electricity :)

[bluelagoon]

I dont know if anyone mentioned above, it is important to have an aquarium cover for the stability of temperature, if you dont have a cover you have less stability and temperature fluctuations will be more common, also with a cover you will save more electricity :)

+1

Also,cool draft from opened windows and doors.

[Ryan925]

Usually it's because folks are not using enough wattage for the volume to heat.A proper heater should keep your tank from fluctuating.That is what the built in thermostat is meant to do.Always go a little bigger if you're not sure.

+1

Properly sizing heater is key to maintain temp. It is difficult to maintain a consistent temp of your heater is working 24/7 trying to keep up. This will also shorten the life or your heater. Ideally you want that heater kicking on occasionally to make small adjustments.

I run a 300w in my 75 and have a 250w as well in there as a backup. That's probably more wattage than I need but I don't see them on often. In the winter my house is usually kept around 68 and temp maintains at 82 or 84 wherever I have it set. I usually see heaters on early in the morning when I go to work. Both heaters are controlled by an inkbird as a safety. I have versatops on my tank also.. Temp is never more than. 5 degrees off

[DJW]

If I don't get up in the middle of the night and shove more wood in the stove, this old house will sometimes get down to 56° in the winter. I think I'm using three times the recommended wattage. I have several STC-1000 controllers, they do a great job... cheap too.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Just ask him Kenny! It sounds like he is happy at a solid 82 for everyone. John are you out there?

:)

John,

Any further insight on the topic would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
kenny

[John_Nicholson]

I have already stated my preference for 82. Above 85 the fertility of the male starts to decrease. That alone tells me the species is not really engineered for temps above that. Also the hotter the water the faster bacteria will grow. Since bacterial infections is one of the issues with discus why make it worse. I do see lots of fish that appear to have bacterial issues and idiots all over the net suggest cranking up the heat...I am sure discus resalers appreciate it...LOL....Also you have the cost. While I am not using all of them now my fish house has 24 75 gallon tanks plus a few oddballs. It gets expensive heating that much water. I grew up around livestock and still breed horses. I have seen lots of people power feed young horses to try and make them big and strong only to watch them break down young because of structural issues. I think the same can be applied to almost any animal. I believe that trying to grow discus in extra hot water and then feeding them 87 times a day is just asking for discus with shape issues, that die young, and ultimately smaller adult sizes.

-john

[NeonTetra]

I have already stated my preference for 82. Above 85 the fertility of the male starts to decrease. That alone tells me the species is not really engineered for temps above that. Also the hotter the water the faster bacteria will grow. Since bacterial infections is one of the issues with discus why make it worse. I do see lots of fish that appear to have bacterial issues and idiots all over the net suggest cranking up the heat...I am sure discus resalers appreciate it...LOL....Also you have the cost. While I am not using all of them now my fish house has 24 75 gallon tanks plus a few oddballs. It gets expensive heating that much water. I grew up around livestock and still breed horses. I have seen lots of people power feed young horses to try and make them big and strong only to watch them break down young because of structural issues. I think the same can be applied to almost any animal. I believe that trying to grow discus in extra hot water and then feeding them 87 times a day is just asking for discus with shape issues, that die young, and ultimately smaller adult sizes.

-john

+1

[adrian31@outlook.com]

I have already stated my preference for 82. Above 85 the fertility of the male starts to decrease. That alone tells me the species is not really engineered for temps above that. Also the hotter the water the faster bacteria will grow. Since bacterial infections is one of the issues with discus why make it worse. I do see lots of fish that appear to have bacterial issues and idiots all over the net suggest cranking up the heat...I am sure discus resalers appreciate it...LOL....Also you have the cost. While I am not using all of them now my fish house has 24 75 gallon tanks plus a few oddballs. It gets expensive heating that much water. I grew up around livestock and still breed horses. I have seen lots of people power feed young horses to try and make them big and strong only to watch them break down young because of structural issues. I think the same can be applied to almost any animal. I believe that trying to grow discus in extra hot water and then feeding them 87 times a day is just asking for discus with shape issues, that die young, and ultimately smaller adult sizes.

-john

Hi John,

Thanks for all the info, I certainly agree with your logic. My rationale for initially keeping my Discus @ 82F was the decrease in bacteria at the lower temp. , didn't even consider that this would be better for their overall health & eventual adult size.

Kenny

[BmoreBraap]

Cammie...didnt go through all the other posts so if this was already mentioned sorry, but the Eheim jager heaters need to be calibrated sometimes. To do that, if your tank is not at the temp you set it at after 24 hours, you need to adjust the red dial(theres a small switch on the back to adjust it)to set it at what the tank temp currently is. So if you have it set for 86 and it is 83 and no longer heating, readjust the dial to 83, then reset the blue thermostat to 86 again and it should heat more. I learned this too late when I could not get my identical 300w heaters to work together.

[Willie]

You certainly can make discus more hungry at 84F, but is that hiding an appetite problem? Why aren't they eating at 82F?

I keep my fry at 84 - 86F, but turn it down for larger fish. My breeders and near breeders are sitting at 80 - 82F. I'm not saying that my way is better than your way, but I doubt that there is such a thing sd the perfect temperature. An acceptable temperature range is more likely.

But back to Cammie's original question on heaters. It's only December and we're still above zero (barely). You should get a couple of backup heaters for January and February. Better to do it now then pay retail when the one dies.

Willie

[Rifleman]

Kenny, that is what I saw as well but to a lesser extreme. They just were not moving as much and were not showing a lot of interest in food. They ate but not like they do when they are just a bit warmer. One thing I have learned is to watch them they can pretty much let you know if they are not happy.

Glad to hear they are all doing well. At this point I feed 3 meals as well. They do love the home made beef heart mix. :grin:

Is that beef heart mix posted some where or a secret ?

[DJW]

Secret recipe:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?110292-How-I-make-beef-heart&highlight=