Is this a tape worm??

[BmoreBraap]

Hoping this isnt what I expect it to be. One of my fish must have pushed this out this morning at some point. If it is how do I treat or do I need to find the fish and qt him??
http://i.imgur.com/N92mmes.jpg

[jmf3460]

doesn't look like it to me. looks more like a piece of stringy food with a fungus (mold) growing on it.

[BmoreBraap]

Whew, little relieved there. The longest it could have been there is 5 hours since I first left for work this morning so unless they are crapping it moldy, it wouldnt have developed mold in the tank that quick. Maybe one of them got a big chunk of my meat mix. Thats much better than worms! Thanks for the reply

[Second Hand Pat]

Matt, I would try and determine which fish in case further action is needed.
Pat

[BmoreBraap]

Matt, I would try and determine which fish in case further action is needed.
Pat

Will do and Ive been trying but with 7 active discus and not being able to sit in from of the tank all day(wish I could) it may be difficult haha. Anything I should be looking out for specifically?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hiding, not eating, swimming with head down or anything which does not seem right.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Thats definitely not tape worm.

If theres nothing else wrong I would watch without medicating. Btw.. do you feed beefheart mix? That looks alot like undigested fat/grizzle.

al

[BmoreBraap]

Thats definitely not tape worm.

If theres nothing else wrong I would watch without medicating. Btw.. do you feed beefheart mix? That looks alot like undigested fat/grizzle.

al

Thanks for the input, makes me feel better. They are all doing/acting great and eating like crazy. I do still feed a beef mix (Hans mix) 1-2 a day but it doesnt contain actual beef heart. Rest of the time I feed your BWs and occasionally blood worms.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks for the input, makes me feel better. They are all doing/acting great and eating like crazy. I do still feed a beef mix (Hans mix) 1-2 a day but it doesnt contain actual beef heart. Rest of the time I feed your BWs and occasionally blood worms.

Its not uncommon with home made beef mixes(heart and other) that some fat and grizzle makes it into the mix. I used to see it from time to time when I made and fed alot of it. Its just passed thru undigested. If the fish in question is passing normal feces I would do nothing at this point and just watch. If you see it again,then maybe theres some issues.

Best always,
Al

[BmoreBraap]

Well...back with the same question but this time I caught it coming out of a fish. I'm not treating with any meds currently. A few pics below. What are the risks with having tapeworms in a tank, are they "contagious" or will they switch hosts? Never dealt with them before so appreciate any help.

http://i.imgur.com/0PTNDW4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eNiJPNh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mhksTZp.jpg

[brewmaster15]

Does not look like a tapeworm.Tape worms are segmented
Its possible its hexamita ..or a bacterial issue. Is it the only fish affected?

[brewmaster15]

See this article..
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/internal/tapeworms.shtml

[BmoreBraap]

Does not look like a tapeworm.Tape worms are segmented
Its possible its hexamita ..or a bacterial issue. Is it the only fish affected?

As far as Ive seen yes this is the only guy affected. This is also the first time I've seen this from him and have not siphoned anything similar out. If it makes any difference they have been eating live black wroms lately trying to entice a picky eater...
How do I verify hex and should I be removing him from the tank, or treating the whole tank? Thank you for your help Al.

[brewmaster15]

Since its the only fish affected and we arent sure with what. I would move the fish to a hospital tank. It will give you a better opportunity to observe and treat if necessary. First make sure its eating well. If its not that could be part of the problem.

What are all the foods you currently feed?
Al

[BmoreBraap]

I currently only have 1 other QT tank that is full of community fish that will be going into the same tank eventually. Is it OK to put him in there with them or is that way too risky?? Need a QT tank and then a separate hosp tank?

Current foods: Live black worms (only for the last 3 days), your FDBW and Hans beef/seafood mix. The community fish get flakes that the discus rarely pick at.

[Filip]

I currently only have 1 other QT tank that is full of community fish that will be going into the same tank eventually. Is it OK to put him in there with them or is that way too risky?? Need a QT tank and then a separate hosp tank?

Current foods: Live black worms (only for the last 3 days), your FDBW and Hans beef/seafood mix. The community fish get flakes that the discus rarely pick at.

Putting him with other fish from different source can further compromise his already weakened immunity .
Put him in a different QT tank -10/20g if you have one.

[BmoreBraap]

Putting him with other fish from different source can further compromise his already weakened immunity .
Put him in a different QT tank -10/20g if you have one.

I Don't but looks like I will soon...

[CANAMONSTER]

Add prazi pro right away. Full treatment then wait 4 days the do a second treatment.

[BmoreBraap]

Yea looks like I'm def going to go for med treatment, the guy showing the white poop is now off feed. That makes 2 of my 9 not eating and showing same behavior, only saw one with the white poop though.

Two main questions:
1. Which medicine should I use since What I read points to Als suggestion of hex, Metroplex or PraziPro?
2. Should I just Qt the 2 in question in a 20 gallon? Or do I need to treat my entire 125 gallon including all community fish? I assume that means removing all chemical filtration also.

[CANAMONSTER]

Do a Prazi Pro treatment and see if it works. It won't hurt healthy fish. Two treatments with 4 day break in between.a sign that the prazi is working is they should start eating like crazy in the first 2 to 6 days

[Filip]

Yea looks like I'm def going to go for med treatment, the guy showing the white poop is now off feed. That makes 2 of my 9 not eating and showing same behavior, only saw one with the white poop though.

Two main questions:
1. Which medicine should I use since What I read points to Als suggestion of hex, Metroplex or PraziPro?
2. Should I just Qt the 2 in question in a 20 gallon? Or do I need to treat my entire 125 gallon including all community fish? I assume that means removing all chemical filtration also.

1.I would listen to Al's advice on this one.
Symptoms do apply to Hex and Metronidazole 400 mg per 10 gallon treat along with elevated temps. 31-32 C And daily +80%WC:s is the way to go for Hex.

2. Treat just the two affected discus in the QT BB tank , leave the rest in your display if they still eat .
Avoid treating the display tank with any med. whatsoever, especially if its not a empty BB tank .

Good luck and report your results if you will.

[BmoreBraap]

That exactly the treatment I went for(Als recommendation). Got them in a 20g QT and just started the metro treatment. Will report back! Thanks for the help

[Filip]

That exactly the treatment I went for(Als recommendation). Got them in a 20g QT and just started the metro treatment. Will report back! Thanks for the help

Great Matt .I'm hoping for a quick 2 week recovery .
I've read you mentioned Metroplex(seachem product) for treating . If you use that instead of metronidazole keep in mind that their instructions are far underdosed from the recommended 400mg/10gall discus treatment dose.

[BmoreBraap]

Great Matt .I'm hoping for a quick 2 week recovery .
I've read you mentioned Metroplex(seachem product) for treating . If you use that instead of metronidazole keep in mind that their instructions are far underdosed from the recommended 400mg/10gall discus treatment dose.

I did notice that thanks Filip. In fact their recommended dose is only 125mg per 10 gallons and also says it's only 70% metronidazole and 30% additives. I went ahead and ordered some pure metronidazole while I was at it since Im upping the dose so much. Hopefully we see some improvement soon

[BmoreBraap]

More concern today. Noticed my big leopard has what looks like a large white spot or damage on his tail. Parasite or damage, what do you guys think?

http://i.imgur.com/OWziVYC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rLbU7Ez.jpg

[RogueDiscus]

The split makes me think damage.

[BmoreBraap]

The split makes me think damage.

Man I really hope so. Starting this hobby with sick fish with hex is stressful enough! Im about to do a large water change, would you recommend dosing with paraguard in case?

[RogueDiscus]

I'll let others chime in on meds. I don't use them much and am not an expert. I rely on water changes to do the job.

[BmoreBraap]

I believe the tail issue turned out to just be damage. This monring there is no more white, just a clean split on part of his tail. I assume he either got into it with the Alpha(hes omega) or decided to fight some drift wood

[BmoreBraap]

Just a little update. Been 2 weeks now that the 2 fish have been in QT getting metro treatment and WCs daily. One of the fish physically looks a lot better(white line on his body gone, some white marks on his fins gone) and is even acting a bit better, bullying the other guy a bit. BUT I cannot get either of them to eat anything or even show any interest in food at all. For the one fish its been over a month with no food, the other guy almost 3 weeks. I have tried garlic scenting the food and no response. Any suggestions on getting them to eat and how much longer should I keep dosing the Metro? Thanks all

[Phillydubs]

What are you offering?

[brewmaster15]

Matt, sometimes no matter what you try they will not turn around if they are too far gone. Their organs start to shut down. This may be the case. The fact that one is looking better and acting better in encouraging though. From our pms, the first week was largely at the 250 mg/10 gal , which is the lowest level treatment, not always affective. Assuming you bumped up the dose to 500 mg per 10 gal as we discussed, I'd give it another week if you really are attached to these fish and want to save them . If you were not able to bump up the dose, then I would consider throwing in the towel .:( Its probably too far in advance to do anything as it is, fish that have not eaten in weeks are often stunted irreversibly or waste away die..

al

[BmoreBraap]

Phil-Hans meat mix, what they have been on for their entire lives I assume! So I figured go with what they know and I've seen them eat.

Al-Thank you very much for all your help, here and through PMs. Somewhat of a bummer to hear though :( For the most part I had the dose at 4-500mg per 10 gallon, For 2-3 days tops I dropped it down when I was concerned about only being able to change about 8 gallons, PMed you and bumped it right back up after you suggested using other tanks water.
Im in this far with these guys and bought the 500g of Metro so I'm going to see if anything else improves, its the least I can do and I'm already setup to do so. I will post back in another week of Metro treatment and still try to feed them ED.

This forum really is a fantastic place and you guys have helped me through every step of this journey, good and bad. So thank you all.

[Phillydubs]

Maybe try some blood worms or something, peak their interest?? Just to see? Cant hurt

[BmoreBraap]

Another update....no improvement. Both fish are now starting to loose some color. One is more active than the other and constantly pecks at the other guy. 5 weeks today no food and 0 interest in food. Tried FDBW, Meat-mix, garlic scented meat mix, flakes...nothing. temp is at 86 and dosing 1000mg of Metro daily in the 20 gallon with at least 50% change. So I think it's getting to that time. Not sure whats worse, letting them starve themselves or just euthanizing them :(

Worse news....my 2 alphas or alpha and omega in my display tank are also now going off feed and both seem to sit in the corner a lot, very worried. If those 2 stop eating and go into qt also, it would make 5 out of 10 of my first discus got sick and died, beyond disheartening not to mention the hurt on the wallet....just sucks.

I may have jumped the gun but when I saw my alphas acting this way, I immediately dosed the tank with Prazipro and Metro and plan to dose again today after their WC. Is this OK? I just want to give these guys a fighting chance if they are also sick and may be able to treat them. And this is all still happening after I went out and got an RO unit for them. I was trying to gradually intoduce the RO with my tap that they have been in for a few months but I think today I'll bump up the RO to tap mix to 50:50.

Any other tips or suggestions? This journey is starting to head down a bad path and I've genuinely been trying my best with these fish. My wife even makes fun of me that I take better care of the fish than I do myself!

[brewmaster15]

Matt,
Can you post current photos of all the fish please?

thanks,
al

[Ash92]

Sorry to hear about your fish mate how long you had them ? Did u deworm them when you first got them?

[BmoreBraap]

Al here they are. Couldn't get very good pics of the 2 in QT due to the tank placement and lighting but they both look worse than ever and are turning very dark.


Leopard(2-3 days off feed, seen him pick at stuff on the driftwood/sand a few times nothing more)- http://i.imgur.com/IC47lVp.jpg

Fire Red(Ate today but has been skipping meals/acting extra skittish and sitting in a corner a lot. Used to be the most out going) http://i.imgur.com/vEy4vx0.jpg

Flachen x Snakeskin (5 weeks off feed, 3 weeks metro treatment.)- http://i.imgur.com/3PjVQ81.jpg

Red Turq (3 weeks off feed, 3 weeks Metro treatment)- http://i.imgur.com/747EnfM.jpg


Let me know if you guys think I should be adding anything else to my Main display tank or just keep up with WC adding more RO daily. Thanks as always

[DJW]

Matt, do you have enough RO to raise it up to 80%? I'm thinking that if the tap water really is 35ppm nitrate then half that is still on the high side and is probably working against you. Keep in mind that if the new water being used for WC is 18ppm then the tank will not be 18ppm, it will always be 18ppm higher than it would otherwise be if the water had none.

[BmoreBraap]

Yea actually that is my plan or at least a 75:25% (RO/DI:Tap) mix. I just wasnt trying to go too quick with a huge PH swing all at once and gradually work the ratio up. Also like we talked about I'm a bit limited atm with my well pressure and the RO unit until I get that booster pump.

[brewmaster15]

Matt, .in the photos of the hospitol tank..non eaters...at the base of the sponge filter...whats that whiteish yellow stuff? Are these fish still passing that stuff in their feces?

Al

[BmoreBraap]

Matt, .in the photos of the hospitol tank..non eaters...at the base of the sponge filter...whats that whiteish yellow stuff? Are these fish still passing that stuff in their feces?

Al

I had the same thought for the first day or 2, but it's actually the white metro powder that hits the bottom balls up into that white gunk you see within about an hour of dosing.

[BmoreBraap]

Is there anything else I should be adding to either tank?

I seriously can't get over how skittish all these fish have become, they literally book it the second I'm near the tank and wedge between anything they can and don't move until I leave. I truly don't understand it as they all used to be outgoing and come to the front of the tank a month ago. Now the most outgoing fish scatter like roaches when the lights come on, it's infuriating.
The GBRs and tetras in the tank all could care less when I'm at the tank and they used to be the skittish ones.

Could this all be from my Notrates? I just don't understand how after 3 months of hours in front of the tank daily they have gotten 5x more skittish....

[BmoreBraap]

Quick update to anyone that was following:
A few weeks has passed and a lot has happened! A few weeks back I was really loosing hope and getting frustrated. After medicating with several things without success, 2 fish in my hosp tank hadn't eaten for up to 5 weeks and then the same sypmtoms appeared again in my display tank with my other discus. Listening to one of Als many suggestions, I sent the 2 fish in my hosp tank off to VT to be tested by a marine professor for any/all diseases & parasites.
Long story short it turned out to be a bad infestation of capillaria. Although I had to sacrifice the 2 fish, it was beyond worth it to find out without question what was going on with my fish. Best part was that it was treatable.

Fast forward to today, I just finished up my 2nd Levamisole treatment a few days ago and ALL my fish are back on track in every sense. Eating, active, pecking order re established, shyness going away. Couldn't be happier at the moment. I will say though the levamisole is one hell of a harsh medication. It takes my discus about 3 days to recover and start to eat and not hide and dart from everything. Also if any of you buy your levamisole from subquaria.com, DO NOT follow their recommended dosage. It is about 4x more potent then it should be and I never could figure out why they were the only company that had a warning that it will kill Cardinal tetras and scaleless fish. Now I know why with that dosage! Using the VT docs recommended dose (identical to Als @ 2ppm) all of my cardinals and cories survived.

So thank you to all who helped me through this long stressful ordeal, it has all been a big help. Now hopefully this is my last update in this thread haha

[Second Hand Pat]

Matt, glad everything has worked out.
Pat

[DatDiscusDude]

If I may ask, what does something like that cost to send fish out for such a service?

[BmoreBraap]

Thanks Pat....

Discusdude, the labs themselves are $65 for up to 3 fish. But you also need to factor in over night shipping because they need the fish alive.

[Jack L]

why does the fish need to be alive?

[Jack L]

Well...back with the same question but this time I caught it coming out of a fish. I'm not treating with any meds currently. A few pics below. What are the risks with having tapeworms in a tank, are they "contagious" or will they switch hosts? Never dealt with them before so appreciate any help.

http://i.imgur.com/0PTNDW4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eNiJPNh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mhksTZp.jpg

so this WAS a worm being passed?

p.s. i just found your thread, sorry for problems but glad you shared experience.

[BmoreBraap]

To be honest Jack, I have no idea if that is an actual worm or not. The lab reported back that I had Capillaria worms which as far as I'm aware are completely microscopic. That exact fish was one of the ones tested and no other worms or parasites were present. I did treat for Hex at first due to the white stringy poo, but there were no traces of it.
As for the fish being alive, its required because some parasites/diseases will die with the host, so in order to be 100% sure they need the fish alive. The unfortunate thing is that this is the ONLY sure way to know exactly what you are dealing with. Every thing else is a best guess and then a matter of luck that you guessed right.

[Jack L]

i found this when searching on it
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa091

thanks for follow up info. it was good you were able to get to the bottom of it.