Prime dose whole tank

[matt2426]

Hi I was wondering do you just add enough prime to the amount of water your taking out or do you dose the amount of the entire tank everytime you do water changes wasn't sure if by do 50 percent water changes if I just dose half or the whole tank thanks alot

[pitdogg2]

Hi I was wondering do you just add enough prime to the amount of water your taking out or do you dose the amount of the entire tank everytime you do water changes wasn't sure if by do 50 percent water changes if I just dose half or the whole tank thanks alot
If you dose the water before it goes in you just dose for the amount of water. If you dose after the water is in the tank you dose for the entire tank amount...clear as mud right lol

[matt2426]

why is that yes clear as mud lol

[pitdogg2]

It you have 100gal. tank and change 50. You must dose for the 100 gallons or the prime will be too diluted the work properly. If you dose the 50 before it goes into the tank you will have the proper amount in the 50gal. of water. If you do a search you will find it's been discussed here with emails from Seachem explaining very clearly.

[matt2426]

Ok thanks

[Willie]

It you have 100gal. tank and change 50. You must dose for the 100 gallons or the prime will be too diluted the work properly. If you dose the 50 before it goes into the tank you will have the proper amount in the 50gal. of water. If you do a search you will find it's been discussed here with emails from Seachem explaining very clearly.

Not arguing that's what Seachem says, but this makes no sense scientifically.

If you change 50 gallons of water in a 100 gallon tank, you'll have half the amount of chlorine or chloramine in the water. Why do you need to double the dose? I've certainly never done that.

Not look for a fight here, but this smells of marketing hype.

Willie

[pitdogg2]

Not arguing that's what Seachem says, but this makes no sense scientifically.

If you change 50 gallons of water in a 100 gallon tank, you'll have half the amount of chlorine or chloramine in the water. Why do you need to double the dose? I've certainly never done that.

Not look for a fight here, but this smells of marketing hype.

Willie
Willie,
While I have done the same as you I did argue that fact and several here who most likely have more degrees than a thermometer stated chemistry doesn't work like that. While technically there is 1/2 the chlorine or chloramine there is now only a 1/2 dose of remover. As I stated that dose will work if it is used before the water goes into the tank. Guess I was lucky. I also had switched to Safe and when a little over 1/4 teaspoon does 100gallons why cry over a few granules. Better safe than sorry with the high dollar fragile fish like Discus.

[DJW]

Larry Bugg asked a Seachem rep about this a few years ago. Here is the response.

Hey Larry,

Sorry I am just getting back to you, I have been out of the office at a show. We are very happy to sponsor such events and I am glad that it was a success. Just wish I could have made it, especially for the auction!

To address the dosing of water conditioners, we must first look at how they function. All water dechlor or conditioners function by employing a reducing agent. This compound reduces and binds with assorted molecules to render them harmless. In the case of chlorine, a reducing agent will break the bond between the two atoms resulting in two chloride atoms. The same happens with chloramine only this results in three chloride atoms and a nitrogen. Most conditioners, especially Prime and Safe, also bind with other compounds to render them harmless. Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are just a few of the common compounds that are effected. So, when you add Prime to a solution containing ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and chlorine, some of the Prime will break apart the chlorine and some will bind with the other compounds. So, if you are doing a water change in a tank that contains a fair amount of nitrate or some other compound, some of the conditioner will be utilized to detoxify these and will not be available to break apart the chlorine or chloramine. If you treat the water before adding it to the aquarium, the conditioner will remove any of the chlorine and chloramine. Any remaining conditioner will then bind with other compounds when added to the tank.

So... if adding water to the tank before treating, it is best to treat for the volume of the entire aquarium. This ensures that there is enough of the conditioner available to remove any chlorine or chloramine, without being effected by any ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate currently in the water. Think of it this way, when treating water before adding it to the tank, there are less harmful compounds to be detoxified. When adding it to the tank first, the conditioner will have more than just chlorine and chloramine to detoxify and therefore will require a larger dose. With Prime and Safe being as concentrated as they are, this typically requires little product but, is a great way to ensure your fish are safe.

Hope this helps, let me know if you have any additional questions or need me to clarify anything.

From post #83...
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?97726-TOO-MUCH-PRIME-WITH-WATER-CHANGES!/page6

[Filip]

Not arguing that's what Seachem says, but this makes no sense scientifically.

If you change 50 gallons of water in a 100 gallon tank, you'll have half the amount of chlorine or chloramine in the water. Why do you need to double the dose? I've certainly never done that.

Not look for a fight here, but this smells of marketing hype.

Willie

Maybe Safe interacts and got neutralised by some other materials in tank water other than chlorine \chloramine ?

Until we get to test and measure chlorine \chloramine with home test kits ,I think we are left on mercy of Seachem chemists and their " wisdom"?

[Willie]

Larry Bugg asked a Seachem rep about this a few years ago. Here is the response.

..So, if you are doing a water change in a tank that contains a fair amount of nitrate or some other compound, some of the conditioner will be utilized to detoxify these and will not be available to break apart the chlorine or chloramine....From post #83...
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?97726-TOO-MUCH-PRIME-WITH-WATER-CHANGES!/page6

Certainly if you're doing lots of water changes, especially 100% ones, nothing else would interact with Safe. So it shouldn't matter whether you add Safe to the stored water before or after adding it to the tank. The rep may not be familiar with the fanaticism of discus keepers!

Willie

[pitdogg2]

When I was active at the American Cichlid Association site before they went belly up we had a great thread that a Seachem scientists came in on. I had emailed Seachem about the very question here and like Larry got a very detailed response. He then went further and joined the ACA and explained in depth of how Prime/Safe works and what they actually turn the atoms into. Of course we all brought up the fact that Seachem just wanted to sell us more to which he stated in reality that is not the case but we want you to understand the chemistry behind our product and want it to work 100% correctly for you. They also sell drugs but don't want us to OD the fish to sell more product. Seachem was very straight forward and really all we had to do was reply and bump the thread and they were right back with honest answers to our questions. Short answer if you going to question a few millimeters of prime or granuals of Safe then feel free to do as you will after all they are YOUR fish. God knows I've killed many in my ignorance.

[pitdogg2]

Certainly if you're doing lots of water changes, especially 100% ones, nothing else would interact with Safe. So it shouldn't matter whether you add Safe to the stored water before or after adding it to the tank. The rep may not be familiar with the fanaticism of discus keepers!

Willie

Yes in this you are correct, but you know this was not the original question. Go to monster fish keepers site some of those folks have 1,500-10,000 gal. aquariums they are not doing 100% daily water changes. The ACA was owned by MFK's ...

[Willie]

...Short answer if you going to question a few millimeters of prime or granuals of Safe then feel free to do as you will after all they are YOUR fish..

All I know about this matter is what I have read in this thread. Somehow you've twisted my question on the science behind their claim and accused me of being cheap.

Willie

[Jack L]

Hi I was wondering do you just add enough prime to the amount of water your taking out or do you dose the amount of the entire tank everytime you do water changes wasn't sure if by do 50 percent water changes if I just dose half or the whole tank thanks alot

i do amount of WC and i also use SAFE instead of Prime, cheaper.

[LoGeek]

Prime DOES interact with other things in the tank according to Seachem, hence it's better to dose in separate barrel or using a dose corresponding to tank volume.

[pitdogg2]

All I know about this matter is what I have read in this thread. Somehow you've twisted my question on the science behind their claim and accused me of being cheap.

Willie

I've twisted nothing. But I see where you left out the fact in my post I stated I did only treat the water I changed AFTER it was in my tank and in my ignorance I killed many fish...
So who is twisting what Willie?

[Phillydubs]

I've twisted nothing. But I see where you left out the fact in my post I stated I did only treat the water I changed AFTER it was in my tank and in my ignorance I killed many fish...
So who is twisting what Willie?

Ok Boys! Lets get this thread back on topic and stay on the original topic. If you guys want to discuss personal tests or experience, please do so via PM or start a new thread for that.

Thank you

[DJW]

Certainly if you're doing lots of water changes, especially 100% ones, nothing else would interact with Safe. So it shouldn't matter whether you add Safe to the stored water before or after adding it to the tank. The rep may not be familiar with the fanaticism of discus keepers!

Willie

Yep, there are clean tanks and there are filthy tanks, and in the wide world of fishkeeping the filthy ones greatly outnumber the clean ones. Many of the people who use Prime consider a water change to be a dangerous undertaking.

My well water is terrible but at least I don't have to fuss with conditioner. I would probably forget to add it every time.

[matt2426]

thanks for the responses I didn't mean to start an argument lol but I think I get it now

[eros111]

Does anybody have any idea as to HOW LONG after we add these products, does it take to perform it's intended function - is it instantaneous, 10 mins , 30 mins or longer ?

[Skip]

Does anybody have any idea as to HOW LONG after we add these products, does it take to perform it's intended function - is it instantaneous, 10 mins , 30 mins or longer ?

probably pretty quick.. (i am using metric units of time)..

[Jack L]

I've used it for nitrate relief, it acted as fast as i could test

[pitdogg2]

Does anybody have any idea as to HOW LONG after we add these products, does it take to perform it's intended function - is it instantaneous, 10 mins , 30 mins or longer ?

Pretty instantaneous. If it took 30 minutes or longer there would be many complaints of suffering or dead fish.