LF Discus tank advice - 40 gallons

[Superxan]

Hey all SD members!

I've been keeping fishes for a few years now (never a Discus). My last setup had a couple Iridescent sharks and a Suckerfish which outgrew my tank size (over 2 ft in length each, they've been there for 5 years now and I recently moved them to a big pond with many other Sharks and Carps at a nearby restaurant), it was a bad choice getting these sharks as my aquarium size was quite small for these guys but little did I know about them back then. Prior to these I've kept assorted small/medium size fishes in the same tank for a few years.

I must admit I had very little knowledge and probably got away with it for most part, with very little causalities.

I've got bitten with the Discus bug now and have been lurking these forums past few days. I have been reading a lot of information regarding Discus and fishes in general and there is heaps of information to still read !!! I've read most of the stickies in this section and many other posts as well.

My Goal: To raise a bunch of healthy and active Discus fish in my tank along with a few smaller colorful fish for display only, I have no plans to breed them as of now.

Current tank information:
Dimensions - (L)3ft x (W)1ft 3"x (H)1ft 8"
Capacity - 160 liters (42 gallons)
This tank has recently(3 weeks) been cleaned up and running.It currently houses a variety of Tetras & Guppies with few plants, driftwood, gravel of 3 inches depth.
Filtration - Internal submersible filter with sponge media.
Heater - Temperature set at 26.5° C (78° F)
Lighting - Running on 3 x 2ft LED lights
WC regime - 30-40% every 3/4 days.
pH range - 7.5-8 (Water source is bore well)
The regular tap water is 7-7.5 pH but I'm not very sure how good it is, there is chlorine in it (I can store it and age if required).
Do not have a water test kit to measure Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate levels yet, will be getting it shortly.

Prior to getting Discus, the following will be done:
Remove all the existing substrate and use pool filter sand (less than 1" depth)
Minimal plants with small pots or no plants at all.
Temperature set at 29° C (84° F)
Add more driftwood.
Add Canister filter (Sunsun brand?)
WC regime - 40-50% every 2/3 days
Check and maintain Ammonia- 0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate to low levels.
Feeding regime - A variety of pellets, flakes, freeze dried worms etc.. 3 to 4 times a day

Expected stocking level:
4 or 5 Discus fish of 3" or 3.5" size along with at-least 10-12 smaller fishes (Cardinals / Rummynose / Lambchop Rasboras) and an Albino Bristlenose Pleco.

I realize the tank is quite small for discus to grow, I plan to upgrade to a bigger tank in 6-8 months time but not immediately. For now I'm willing to put in extra effort to make up for this lack of space.

Q: Is this a viable setup for Discus ?

Q: What other measures or changes I need to make, in order to keep them happy?

Q: Is it a good idea to add a Male Betta fish with this setup? Are there any other compatible fishes that can be considered?

Q: Is there any additional filtration type or media I need to use for this setup?


Any advice/information is more than welcome :)

Thanks for taking time to read through my post!

[Mattgoanna]

Hi
I keep all my Discus in 3x18x18 tanks. I only keep one or up to 5 small adults per tank. My advice would be go for a pair if you can (you don't need to breed from them). I find that with a group of 5 discus I need to use a canister as well as an internal filter and need to do at least 50 percent water changes twice a week to maintain appropriate water quality. In the long run it is safer, cheaper and less work to purchase adult fish. Growing out discus is a lot of work and you may end up with fish you don't like - shape, colour and temperament.
Best tank mates are corydoras sterbai x4, cardinal tetras x12 and bristenose catfish X1. Do not use royal whiptails or gibbiceps catfish. You can include anubias or java fern plants on you drift wood. Only use just as much sand as it takes to cover the bottom (as little as possible). Don't over do the lighting or you will spend your time cleaning algae and the discus and plants I have recommended don't need it.
Just a note on keeping a pair - the behaviour of a bonded pair is much more graceful than keeping a group. They will regularly greet each other and the only other fish I can liken this behaviour too (in such a graceful way) is sea horses.
Hope this help and no doubt others will jump in.
Matt

[Mattgoanna]

Some pics for you for inspiration

[Superxan]

Thanks for giving your input Matt, appreciate it !

Those Discus and the tanks look very neat, I have something similar on my mind.

Right now I'm leaning towards having a bunch of smaller discus but if I do find a decent adult pair I love, I'll definitely get them over the smaller ones.

How long would, say 3" Discus take to grow to 5" size under the right conditions ?

Also, what filter media would you recommend for a Canister filter?

Cheers!

[Mattgoanna]

Growth will depend on water quality and feeding, but I would think a good 12-18 months is realistic.
Seachem matrix or ceramic noodles and some filter wool will do the trick. I have never just used matrix to fill the filter as it may slow the flow of the filter a bit much, but only a guess.
If you are going to use sand and plants etc., stay away from pigeon blood discus unless they are one of the strains known to be free of peppering.

[Superxan]

Pigeon Blood was on my top#1 list :eek:, hopefully I'll find some decent ones here.

I was thinking if I get 5 or 6 Discus of 3" or 3.5" initially, I can probably upgrade my tank in 6 months or so and it shouldn't affect their growth much.

Going to do the substrate change the coming week and gradually setup everything focused on Discus.

Would like to post pics of the Discus available with the local seller here, to get an opinion on its condition and quality, experts here can judge them the best.

[Superxan]

Visited LFS today and was told pool filter sand they have contains Silica and it isn't good for Discus. Is this true?
Also the sand he showed was kinda transparent-white, almost like sugar, like the image below
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He recommended getting ADA La Plata Sand instead - http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/shop/ada-la-plata-sand-8kg/

Thoughts?


I picked up a Pleco today, a small fella (1.5"), can anyone help identify if it is actually Albino Bristlenose Pleco ?

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Now, once I set the tank up and get all the parameters right, I intend to purchase Discus. The same store and a few other LFS around have Imported (Malaysian) Discus, they are quoting 40-45$ USD for a 3" Discus.
I've had a local breeder from a different city send me pics & videos of Discus he supplies to many other people, they seemed quite nice and more importantly much more reasonable 10-20$ USD for a 3"/3.5" Discus locally bred. What would be a better option for a first time Discus keeper?

Can you'll help me with checking the quality of the Discus from the local breeder?
106006106007106008106009106010106011106012


Thanks a lot !

[Second Hand Pat]

I do see a couple issues in the pictures. In the third picture the one on the far right is super skinny. In the fifth picture look at the fins. This fish had fin rot in the past.
Pat

[Superxan]

Thanks Pat, newbies like me would make bad decisions if not for experts like you around :) (I've found a couple of breeders who have assured better quality and reasonable prices for Discus locally, so this issue is taken care of)

Picked up SunSun 303 canister filter, additional filter media, API Master test kit, white sand, loads of Driftwood, etc...

Tested my water and have the following results:
Source - pH - Ammonia - Nitrite - Nitrate
Tank(Borewell) - 8.4 - 0 ppm - 0 ppm -20 ppm

Direct Borewell - 8.0 - 0.25 ppm - 0 ppm -10 ppm
Direct Tap water(aged) - 8.0 - 0.25 ppm - 0 ppm -0 ppm
Mineral water can - 6.6 - 0 ppm - 0 ppm -0 ppm

Mineral water cans I need to add atleast 8 cans (20 litres each) to a full tank.

Ideally using Tap water or Borewell is preferred but they are showing a very high pH, is it better to use Tap water along with a conditioner or stick to Mineral water (expensive and additional work required to top up) ?

I have fishes in my tank right now, if I need to move from Gravel -> White sand, what is a good way to go about it?
(Drain tank water to a large bucket, move fishes and internal filter into it and then move the fishes back to tank with new substrate?)

For the canister filter I picked up Ceramic rings, Bio-balls, additional fine sponge & activated carbon, anything to not use or use in addition to these?

Thanks!

[Mattgoanna]

Just siphon out the gravel with water changes. Wash sand and place in a small container and submerge in the tank and tip out. Just make sure your sand does not increase pH given your challenges already.
As for your water, I would start will a pH of 7 and slowly increase via water changes once you get the discus. You may find they do ok - just don't push you luck and do it slowly. I often increase my pH if worming my fish and they don't seem to mind. Your other option would be to try and age water with black water extract and see if the pH will drop, but it will colour the water with tannins.
Contents of the canister are fine. I try and keep carbon out of the canisters and use it in my in tank filters so I can change it more regularly.

[Mattgoanna]

One final note. Many of us have purchased cheaper fish over the years in the hope of growing out some stunning fish. Most of the time you end up spending more replacing them in the future when something better comes along. Spend the money and buy the fish you will want to keep. As previously mentioned, if you are going for a natural looking tank, stay away from pigeon bloods as they can end up with peppering. Blue diamonds, cobalts, rose reds and red turks are always nice and won't end up with peppering.

[Second Hand Pat]

I would not worry about a ph of 8.0. When I have my fish in full tap the ph is 8.2.
Pat

[Superxan]

Thanks guys!

I went ahead and changed the substrate today, gravel was 2.5 inches thick and it had a lot of gunk and disturbing the substrate made it very muddy. I moved the fishes to a large bucket with the tank water and filter, made a big big mistake of not covering the bucket :bomb:
Didn't realize these small guys were jumpers, they seemed fine when I moved them and by the time I was done clearing all the gravel and WC, a few of them had jumped out and died :( :( :( soo damn saddening... learn new lessons everyday.

I got the canister filter running without the activated carbon, it kept releasing the blackish residue even after numerous washes, so I decided to skip it for now.

Water looks very clean at the moment, looks empty without the plants but much brighter due to the sand.

I've put all the Driftwood in hot water since a week now but it still didn't look clean enough to add it to the tank yet, I guess I'll wait a little longer to add them. Any chemical I can add to disinfect the wood or fasten the cleaning process? I'm unable to use any brush or scrub to clean it thoroughly.

Current reading of my tank:
Source - pH - Ammonia - Nitrite - Nitrate
Tank(Borewell) - 8.2 - 0 ppm - 0 ppm -10 ppm
The pH seems to have dropped to 8.2 from 8.4 (with gravel+plants), hopefully its due to the substrate change. I'll keep measuring this week, if its going back to 8.4+ I'll probably mix a mineral water into the tank as well (50:50).

I'm soo excited to get Discus once the tank is stabilized.

One of the Discus importers informed me to maintain TDS <120ppm and pH doesn't matter at all. Now, I need to get a TDS measuring device :p

[Mattgoanna]

Is the wood growing fungus or something on it? If when you scrub it you are getting brown / black colour on your scrubbing brush it is unlikely that will change - but it is not generally a problem.
Sounds like you are getting there.

[Superxan]

Yeah, previously when I added driftwood there was a white layer growth on it (I had boiled it for a day), it looked ugly. I took it out scrubbed it and it it still showed up again but it was less this time, picture below

106145

The driftwood pieces I added in tank today, they were immersed in hot water for over a week, hope it doesn't grow back that white stuff again.

My tank's pH has reverted back to 8.4 again!

Picked up few Ramirezis today (Golden Balloon, Veil tailed Electric Blue & Veil tailed GBR) , drip acclimatized and added to the tank. The last 2 Serpae tetra survivors have been aggressively fin nipping most of my other fishes to death and I noticed them even more today, they weren't even intimidated by the larger sized GBR (over 2.5"), I had to move them out of the tank :(

How long do I need to keep the internal submersible filter in the tank to help grow the BB?

The current state of my tank (W.I.P) -
106146

[Superxan]

I'm back with more updates and more questions :grin:

TDS in Tank(Borewell) showed around 420-440 ppm few days back. I figured this is on the higher side, so I've decided to stick to tap water(120-135 ppm) permanently. I've been doing PWC every alternate days, my tank's TDS is around 280 ppm as of today, it should come down around 180 by this weekend.

Current water parameters:
Source - pH - Ammonia - Nitrite - Nitrate
Tank - 8.2 - 0 ppm - 0 ppm - 5 to 10 ppm

One of the Electric Blue Ram was on the verge of dying before I made a switch to tap water, he/she has recovered, all are active and seem happy.

Some of the adult GBRs have marked their territory, they chase all other GBRs out of their areas very aggressively but it doesn't seem bad, no injuries etc...

My current stock in tank: 4 x Long finned German Blue Ram, 4 x Long finned Electric Blue Ram, 4 x Golden Balloon Ram, 2 x Rummynose Tetra, 3 x Endler Guppies.
I will be adding atleast 6-10 x Rummynose Tetras & 6x Sterbai Corydoras shortly.


Q: Am I ready to get Discus this weekend ?

Q: A confirmed pair vs 5-6 of 3" sized Discus considering all the above factors ? (I will upgrade my tank in 6-8 months)

Q: Are there any particular hardy strains suitable for beginners ?

Any other advice/suggestion most welcome!