Sump leak

[HappyFace]

I've had a really horrible week. My brand new (1 year old) Advanced Acrylics 90 gallon custom sump sprung a big mystery leak last week. We couldn't figure out exactly where the leak was coming from. I drained the sump and bioseeded my 2 hydor cannister filters and set them up. They are each rated for up to 150 gallon tanks. Our tank is 200 gallon.

I called the manufacturer of the sump and they shipped me some liquid to seal it. I also ordered silicone so I could use that over what they sent me. One of the Hydors stopped working on day two. Four days into the sump failure my beloved, gorgeous white pearl discus died. R.I.P. Legolas. He was my favorite. All the long finned panda corys died and not having the corys cleaning the ground caused the tank to get dirtier. I ran out of testing fluid, no longer have our water storage tank to do water changes. I tested the levels with a strip tester and they weren't great but didn't seem lethal however I don't trust cheap strip testers.

I took the rocks out so there would be nowhere for food and debris to accumulate and I cut the fish feedings down 70%. None of the other fish have died since I cut down the feedings. The discus and angels started fighting a lot.

After draining the sump my husband made a larger 5/8" drain line to replace the 1/4 inch hole we had. That's something we had been meaning to do for awhile. The tank is setup for continuous water exchange so the larger drain line will allow larger volumes of water exchanged and less chance of flooding due to a clogged line.

Today I was finally able to fill the sump after waiting for the silicone to cure. So far it's not leaking. Right now the tank is receiving 8 gallons per hour of fresh water coming in so it will be receiving 4-5 complete water changes per week. The old 1/4" line only would allow 3 GPH to drain. This weekend I plan to get a high quality water tester kit to test the parameters, although the levels should be perfect with all the water changes this week.

The tank looks so empty and sad now. All we have are 5 discus, 3 angels and 2 small plecos. Tomorrow I will put the rocks back in. Maybe it will help lessen the stress levels of the fish to have places to hide behind.

Pic of Legolas, the white discus, below. I really miss him. He was always first to hand-feed and had a laid back personality. I'm so sad. :(

[two utes]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, and especially the loss of your white pearl discus. I remember seeing pictures of it, and it was beautiful. Hang in there. You still have some beautiful discus there, and you can rebuild your stock. Good luck

[Neptune]

I hate bad days! Hope you are on the uphill side!

Just FYI. silicon does not stick well to acrylic. Over time it may start to let go?

Did you use the glue they sent first? It was probably a very thin watery substance and they supplied a needle applicator to dispense it?

[HappyFace]

Thank you Joe, :)

[HappyFace]

Thank you Neptune. Yes, I used the liquid first. I put a lot on all around the tank bottom edges and up the corners and gave it 24 hours to dry even though they said give it 3 hours. Then I used a very thin layer of silicone.

[Lido]

I am really sorry to hear about your favorite fish. It sounds like you're back in business though. I am glad you could safe most of the fish.

[HappyFace]

Thank you Lido

[rickztahone]

Thank you Neptune. Yes, I used the liquid first. I put a lot on all around the tank bottom edges and up the corners and gave it 24 hours to dry even though they said give it 3 hours. Then I used a very thin layer of silicone.

This would have been weld on 4 or 16 that they sent. You want to apply it with a needle in the affected area. I am really surprised that they did not send you a replacement sump. They should vouche for their work. I know many reefers that would have had a cow and let the whole world know of their failure to take care of a customer.

[HappyFace]

Thank you Rick.

They never offered a new sump. Even if they did it took a long time to receive the first one I'd hate to wait months for another one. Our sump won't come out anyways. We slid the sump in the side that is now up against the wall. The other side has a metal piece preventing it from ever being removed. We never planned for something like this happening.

I am just sad for my loss of fish at this point. It looks like the person I purchased Legolas from has more of the XL Mother of Pearl diamond discus so I plan to purchase 2 of them once I can save the money. With shipping it's $540 for 2 of them. :(

[rickztahone]

Thank you Rick.

They never offered a new sump. Even if they did it took a long time to receive the first one I'd hate to wait months for another one. Our sump won't come out anyways. We slid the sump in the side that is now up against the wall. The other side has a metal piece preventing it from ever being removed. We never planned for something like this happening.

I am just sad for my loss of fish at this point. It looks like the person I purchased Legolas from has more of the XL Mother of Pearl diamond discus so I plan to purchase 2 of them once I can save the money. With shipping it's $540 for 2 of them. :(

Well, I am not sure what part of the world you are from but you can always see if anyone close to you is planning on buying discus from the same seller. If so, you can split shipping with that person. I've done this a couple of times in the past.

[HappyFace]

Should I ask the sump manufacturer to help me pay for my losses?

Below is a video I took right after the leak before I turned off the pump and drained the sump. Please ignore the drum sound it's my son's toy. The video shows that all the lines going to and from the sump are dry, the entire open side of the sump is dry but the side-back sump area and all around the back bottom of the tank is wet. The pump was running when I took the video.

There is some bowing around the bottom wood of the tank, swelling at the screw holes and also the wood floor has a tiny amount of bowing so this leak probably had existed for awhile before it became large and apparent. I will need to sand, fill and repaint the tank corners and screw holes. The boat paint I use (Rust-Oleum 206999 Marine Topside Paint, White) yellows a little with age so I will have to repaint the entire bottom, doors and canopy for it to match...and probably the floors too since it's all the same paint I used and I want everything to match. My goal was to have the tank look almost "built in" by using the same paint for floor, stand and canopy.

I'm estimating the total loss including the 1 discus with shipping ($315.00), 7 long finned panda corys with shipping from gunpowder aquatics ($170.00) and at least 8 quarts of new paint on amazon ($136.00) totals $620.00. :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INnD687DZOU

[HappyFace]

That's a good idea Rick. Thank you. I don't know any discus owners in my area though.

[HappyFace]

I contacted them earlier to see if they might reimburse our losses hopefully they respond. I sent them a video from when we emptied the sump and lifted it up, all the wetness underneath towards the back side of the sump.

[Jenene]

I am so sorry for the loss of your beautiful fish. My white Albino Platinum is also one of my favorites. I would be crushed if I lost him. He is the smallest but has no issues holding his own with the big guys in the tank. They really win over a place in your heart. I really hope the rough patch is passed and your sump will be good to go- although I think the worry about another issue will remain in the back of your mind as long as you own that sump. They should really have replaced it.

I hope the next post is all good news of healthy fish and a dry floor...

[HappyFace]

Thank you Jenene. I'm sorry for your loss too. :(

Yes, it will always be a worry. I really don't want a new sump though because we would have to tear everything down to get the old one out. I just want this one to not leak and I would love to have our damages and losses covered.

When I called them the first thing they said is that leaks are usually caused by the sump not being level. :/ I took this video below to show both the tank and sump are perfectly level. My husband build the stand and canopy. He's in construction and has been a welder for over 25 years. He is the person who draws everything out and does the math on projects at work because he's a perfectionist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STgBgwI7QQQ

[rickztahone]

Do you know where the leak is exactly?

[HappyFace]

Not exactly but I do know it was in the pump return side of the sump at the back. That's where it was super wet. I put the liquid sealant they sent me all around the inside bottom perimeter of the entire sump and up all 4 corners and even up the baffles.

[HappyFace]

Are there multiple reasons that a sump on a level stand would leak a year after purchase? Could the sump have a design error (stress points?) that will cause it to be weak and more prone to leaking in the future?

[rickztahone]

Are there multiple reasons that a sump on a level stand would leak a year after purchase? Could the sump have a design error (stress points?) that will cause it to be weak and more prone to leaking in the future?

Only time will tell. I personally would have had them replace the tank. These sumps aren't cheap and they should stand behind their products. Dealing with a sump leak is a nightmare as you are well aware, and you pay more for a well made sump like this to avoid these issues. Seems like a manufacturer flaw.

[Jack L]

uggggg, sorry for you.
i hate to see this. this is my fear with my sump.
the fact that it developed leak over time...even worse, as you think its all squared away.


TFS, but you've prompted me to buy a water alarm to put under my tank, so at least i'd get an alert of a problem.

[Jack L]

and i would not trust one that leaked again, but my guess is it is along the seam.

[Neptune]

Could your pump be causing vibration that is causing a seam to fail?
are you using a submersible just resting on the bottom?

[HappyFace]

Could your pump be causing vibration that is causing a seam to fail?
are you using a submersible just resting on the bottom?

The pump has rubber feet.

[HappyFace]

That makes sense the design is beautiful but the manufacture failed. I'm regretting not having asked them to replace the sump with a new one.

[HappyFace]

uggggg, sorry for you.
i hate to see this. this is my fear with my sump.
the fact that it developed leak over time...even worse, as you think its all squared away.


TFS, but you've prompted me to buy a water alarm to put under my tank, so at least i'd get an alert of a problem.

That's a good idea Jack. Thank you.

[HappyFace]

The tank water parameters must be back to good. My discus pair laid eggs this evening and the angelfish that got his fin ripped off from fighting has a tiny fin regrowing. No one is fighting anymore. They all appear to be very happy.

[HappyFace]

Sorry I've been sick and unable to respond to posts. Advance Acrylics only covers their products for 1 year. It has been over 1 year but under 2 years since I purchased my custom sump from them. Despite it being a manufacturer defect they do not cover it or any damages resulting from their product failure. They did send me a liquid repair product to seal the leak.

From now on I recommend for people to purchase used tanks and sumps, preferably ones that they see running in good condition. I have a 500g tank and 100gal sump with custom stand and canopy that I purchased used for less than 1/3 price of new. I didn't even see them running but they work great, have been running for over 1 year without any problems. The tank does bow (most huge tanks do) but it doesn't leak. Unless you need a custom size, why pay more for a new sump that fails after a little over a year?

[JBurgo]

You're right to be mad. If they were worth their salt, they would back their product up. When you buy a high end product your expectations are different to when you buy cheap things. People take notice when companies don't back their products `shortly after warranties run out`, that's really bad credibility. They're happy to take top dollar. I don't think they could be responsible for other water damage, but they should definitely back up their product in this circumstance.

[Jack L]

your post got me thinking about how i had my sump setup. i put it on some old pads to noise isolate it. but after your issue, i was concerned the bottom of the sump wasn't evenly supported. i emailed the manufacturer and they manufacturer got back to me and said they recommend placing sumps on on a even surface, like a piece of foam to even out pressure points. bulk reef supply sells a neoprene foam pad for that purpose.

just wanted to pass it on.

i also bought this
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JOK11K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

might consider it for your setup.
i did some testing. i have it on a paper towel instead of just on its base, as the paper towel makes is more sensitive buy absorbing water and completing the circuit.

[HappyFace]

your post got me thinking about how i had my sump setup. i put it on some old pads to noise isolate it. but after your issue, i was concerned the bottom of the sump wasn't evenly supported. i emailed the manufacturer and they manufacturer got back to me and said they recommend placing sumps on on a even surface, like a piece of foam to even out pressure points. bulk reef supply sells a neoprene foam pad for that purpose.

just wanted to pass it on.

i also bought this
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JOK11K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

might consider it for your setup.
i did some testing. i have it on a paper towel instead of just on its base, as the paper towel makes is more sensitive buy absorbing water and completing the circuit.

Hi Jack.

Thank you for your suggestion. We made sure that our stand is level on all sides and at all angles.

I'm actually concerned if you put something underneath the sump it might cause the sump to be uneven. What if one side of the sump is heavier than the other because of the pump or substrate or the pressure of the water draining down? I'm more comfortable with the sump being on a very sturdy level surface to begin with.

[Jack L]

i don't think the pads give that much, or a rigid foam sheet would give.
but, if it is evenly supported, that is the goal i believe. the way i had mine, it wasn't, it was on pressure points, so probably not the best situation.

anyway, thanks for sharing you issue as it got me rethinking what i had in place

hope your issue is behind you!