new to discus, why age water?

[clark12]

yep, i asked why do you age water for water changes? not arguing, i would like to know. very interested in getting discus, this is the start of my research. thanks

[warblad79]

For stability

[clark12]

For stability
please elaborate. I'm still confused on this part. and is it 100% necessary?

[Lido]

Tap water typically comes out at one PH, after settling and airrating it lowers to its stable ph. It is 99% necessary unless you have stable water out of the tap. Like super clean spring water.

[clark12]

Tap water typically comes out at one PH, after settling and airrating it lowers to its stable ph. It is 99% necessary unless you have stable water out of the tap. Like super clean spring water.

you say it will lower it to a stable ph, will this cause a ph swing or is it too small to worry about? my tap ph and my tank are the same 7.6. will it lower it from that or am i seeing this wrong? feeling stupid right now

[Clawhammer]

Water straight from the tap often contains substances that affect pH that will be removed from the water via aeration. Aging allows these substances to be gassed off before the water is in the tank, otherwise, pH would constantly be in flux. Discus are more susceptible to stress from pH change than other fish.

CO2 gas from the atmosphere will concentrate in water, especially when outside temperatures are low. As this gasses off, pH will rise. Water companies sometimes add buffers to water low in KH to prevent pH crashes in the system; as this gasses off pH will decrease.

Test your need for aging by testing pH after 24 hours of aeration vs. straight from the tap. If there is a large difference (more than a couple tenths of a point) aging is beneficial.

[clark12]

Water straight from the tap often contains substances that affect pH that will be removed from the water via aeration. Aging allows these substances to be gassed off before the water is in the tank, otherwise, pH would constantly be in flux. Discus are more susceptible to stress from pH change than other fish.

CO2 gas from the atmosphere will concentrate in water, especially when outside temperatures are low. As this gasses off, pH will rise. Water companies sometimes add buffers to water low in KH to prevent pH crashes in the system; as this gasses off pH will decrease.
now this is making sense. this seems like a huge amount of work when people are saying do 50%-90% a day WC. I'm not scared of hard work but thats a lot more equipment to getting it up from the basement. 55+ gal storage container, bubbler, heaters, pump valves. holy cow. 50% a day with the python is childs play. no other options?

[aweitzelleishman]

I have exactly what you just mentioned. 55 gallon barrel in the basement, a pump attached to a vacuum that leads into my sewage pump, then a pump in my barrel up into my tank. A heater and air stone in my barrel heats and ages the water for 20+ hours before I refill the tank.

It's a lot to think about, but if you shop around you can get some cheaper equipment to make it easier on yourself. My juvies are growing well, from 2.5" to 4" in 2 months, and I'm able to keep up with water changes easily because of the initial investment.

Sometimes I'm in a rush and I forget to fill the barrel, so the water comes straight from the tap. On those days I definitely see more darting and weird behavior, since they're stressed.

[CammieTime]

If your tap water pH does NOT change after aging, then you can simply refill the tank directly from the spigot - just adjust the temp to match the tank. My tap water has a high pH and a lot of dissolved solids, aging has no effect on pH. So, I can fill the tank directly. I bought a hand shower sprayer, connected it behind the shower head, cut the sprayer off and connected it to 1/2 vinyl tubing which I put into my tank. I use a pump to remove water quickly from the tank. No aging barrels, heaters, ect. needed.

Microbubbles are another reason to age your water, water directly from the tap is full of little tiny bubbles that take a few hours to dissipate, and discus don't like these bubbles and they make your sponge filters float.

With discus, the MUST have clean fresh water. They get sick and die without it.

[LoGeek]

Microbubbles are another reason to age your water, water directly from the tap is full of little tiny bubbles that take a few hours to dissipate, and discus don't like these bubbles and they make your sponge filters float.


A filter sponge and a 150micron filter sock attached to the hose will take care of microbubbles. I have been using that after reading about it in a thread here some weeks ago. It really works!

[Clawhammer]

A filter sponge and a 150micron filter sock attached to the hose will take care of microbubbles. I have been using that after reading about it in a thread here some weeks ago. It really works!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHT8KcpVwf8

[clark12]

thanks for the additional replies. I'm going to do a test to double check what I'm saying. first check ph right out of the tap, then fill a 5 gal bucket with an air stone and let sit for 24 hours and recheck ph. this is the correct way right? does a heater need to be in involved? the micro bubble remover setup is awesome. i will also try this to test it out.

[Neptune]

now this is making sense. this seems like a huge amount of work when people are saying do 50%-90% a day WC. I'm not scared of hard work but thats a lot more equipment to getting it up from the basement. 55+ gal storage container, bubbler, heaters, pump valves. holy cow. 50% a day with the python is childs play. no other options?

I can describe my setup for getting aged water from the basement to the upstairs tanks if you'd like.

[clark12]

I can describe my setup for getting aged water from the basement to the upstairs tanks if you'd like.

i appreciate this but if my water tests allow, I'm going to skip the aging and do the sponges to get rid of micro bubbles. if my ph doesn't change, i don't see any reason to age water. except the bubbles, which has been explained. thanks though

[Neptune]

i appreciate this but if my water tests allow, I'm going to skip the aging and do the sponges to get rid of micro bubbles. if my ph doesn't change, i don't see any reason to age water. except the bubbles, which has been explained. thanks though

by all means, keep the task as simple as possible!

[Lido]

by all means, keep the task as simple as possible!


+1 the more simple it is the more likely you will keep up on it. The more you keep up the more successful you will be.

[clark12]

+1 the more simple it is the more likely you will keep up on it. The more you keep up the more successful you will be.


by all means, keep the task as simple as possible!
i thought i would get ridiculed for trying to skip (if possible) aging and keep things simple as possible. thanks guys for the help

[Jack L]

my water swings from 7 from tap to 8.4 after sitting in air 12 hours (give or take)

discus don't care for it, but it flat out kills small fish like black neons.

[Neptune]

i thought i would get ridiculed for trying to skip (if possible) aging and keep things simple as possible. thanks guys for the help

you still might! LOL...
naw skipping aging...no ridicule
skipping water changes ridicule

[CammieTime]

If you can avoid aging water and still have happy discus, then don't bother with the aging. Incorrect temp matching from the faucet, microbubbles, and pH swings are what you need to control for. If you water has the same pH before and after aging, then all you need to deal with is the temp and the microbubbles.

[clark12]

you still might! LOL...
naw skipping aging...no ridicule
skipping water changes ridicule
I'm fine with the heavy water changes daily. i might have to do something about filtration though. i currently have a canister. i don't know anything about sumps but do have the room for one under the tank if its easier.

If you can avoid aging water and still have happy discus, then don't bother with the aging. Incorrect temp matching from the faucet, microbubbles, and pH swings are what you need to control for. If you water has the same pH before and after aging, then all you need to deal with is the temp and the microbubbles.
i currently have 2 tanks up and running, so matching the temp is not a problem. already used to doing that. and the micro bubble have been explained in above posts which is a relief since they happen in the winter months and i live in northeast ohio. it seems like winter for 5 months out of the year

[clark12]

ok, did the water test. aged 24 hours with bubbler. ph is what appears to be .2 difference with the api kit. is this considered a big swing? i wish i had something better to more accurately test with hard numbers and not... is that a reddish orange or a yellowish red. kidding, those aren't the actual colors. but seriously now .2 is worst case difference between tap and aged. thoughts please

[clark12]

@LidoVentura do you have any input on above post? thanks

[xxalanxx]

I didn't have to age water before. I compared the PH from tap water and the age water and they were almost the same. When the winter came, one day I notice the fish acted differently after a water changes for more than an hour. Since then, I started aging water.

I guess your fish will tell if you need to age the water after all. If they like the tap water, then you don't need to. If they don't like it, then you don't have a choice, do you?

[clark12]

I didn't have to age water before. I compared the PH from tap water and the age water and they were almost the same. When the winter came, one day I notice the fish acted differently after a water changes for more than an hour. Since then, I started aging water.

I guess your fish will tell if you need to age the water after all. If they like the tap water, then you don't need to. If they don't like it, then you don't have a choice, do you?
got it, thanks

[Ken K.]

I moved to a new city and started up my 85 gallon discus tank 8 months ago. Ph out of the tap in St. Louis is 8.8-9.0!! None of the LFS sell discus here because the water is too hard and alkaline. However, after setting up my tank, aging it, and putting in some "starter" fish (went with Cardinal tetras as a test), the Ph in my tank is now a stable 6.4-6.6. I have two large driftwoods in my tank, but they are 8 years old and I don't think emitting any tannins. I do not know why my Ph dropped to what discus love. I purchased some discus online, and they are doing so well that two of them paired off and have been mating. I want to start a second tank to breed discus, but I do not know what I did to reach such a low Ph, and am afraid I'll kill off my discus (and anything other than African cichlids). Anybody know how 8.8 Ph out of the tap dropped to 6.6 without any action on my part? I don't want to go the RO route, such a hassle. It's been so easy out of the tap.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Ken, try aging your tap water in a container with aeration for 24 hours. Measure the ph at the start of the 24 hours and the end of the 24 hours. Please post the results.
Pat

[Jack L]

+1

[RogueDiscus]

Hi Ken,
You need to do the aging test as Pat described. It's possible your water source has added alkali to inhibit pipe corrosion, since it is naturally acidic. I think it's sodium hydroxide they add. It dissipates during the aging. Your water provider should be able to tell you. You might have great water if you give it time.

[LizStreithorst]

I agree with everyone else.

[Adam S]

Using a pump can drastically speed up the process. Takes 2-3 hours for my water to stabilize, as I don't bother heating it.