Help me decide on my new discus setup !

[kadi]

Hello! :)


My name is Adrian, I live in Poland and I would love to start my adventure with discus fish.

I have around 10 years of experience with keeping aquarium fish, there were highs and lows, used to have 10 aquariums in my living room, but as of now I am back to the starting point.
I tried planted tanks, kept most of the popular fish but never had the opportunity to go for the discus because of their price/availability/requirements etc.
Recently I have made renovation in my room, almost everything is done but there is still empty place for the aquarium. I have 150cm of space, so that will probably be a 450L~~120gallon tank (150x50x60h).



I have read few articles from simplydiscus, watched youtube video about keeping discus and the key points that I have noticed are:

-high quality of water
-water changes every day
-get good quality discus on the start
-bare bottom/sand
-stability of parameters
-quarantine for the new fish/plants
-good filtration


Technical stuff:

My future tank:
450L / 120gallon
150x50x60h

Thinking if it is worth going for the optiwhite glass, that will be additional cost that I can transfer into more fish/better quality but if the final effect is worth going for it I might consider that option.
Lightning:
I am not sure if T5ho or LEDs are the way to go, I am thinking about LED lamp with basic automation(sunrises etc).
The only products that I have found and read about were LED lamps made strictly for plant growth (razor 420r, zetlight, also custom DIY leds) which are pretty expensive, as for the budget lamps that would do fine for both fish and basic plants I have no idea yet , most of the people suggest that LED tapes are not worth it and generally not good enough, I have no experience with this and I will be looking more into this topic.

For the filtration - I am thinking about canister filter, anything with recommended brand that fits into 120g, Eheim, JBL, Tetra, Aquael, In adition, I might go sponge filters for the first year while growing discus but in the end I would rather keep them away from tank as they are looking bad for the display tank IMO.

I am planning to go bare bottom or sand for the start, sand would probably look much better than empty glass but if it is much easier to grow them out in bare bottom I will stick with BB, I will also add few driftwoods and plants like amazon swords/anubias.

As for the water, I can do daily water changes of 30-40%, but the less the better for me, I understand that feeding and water changes are key to sucess while growing new young discus.
Looking forward to any suggestion with automated water pumps as running around the house with buckets, wasn't the most enjoyable thing to do.

My water test with JBL EasyTest straight from the tap:

107386

Another test after 2 hours:

107387

I would prefer not to have any additional filters like RO that helps with water parameters if I can get away with it...

Fauna

I am planning to have around 6-10 discus fish with bottom fish like corys and maybe addition of neons or any other small fishes.

I am thinking of buyng my first discus fish from either Stendker or Piwowarski.
The other idea is to buy some cheap fishes from localbreeders at much lower price and get some experience with them.


My aquarium goals

My goal is to have beatiful, healthy big fish in an enjoyable to watch tank.
I am not planning to breed discus and I am not into any competitions (YET !!!).


My final questions and thoughts:


- is my water quality decent enough to keep discus?
- can I throw tap water directly into aquarium while doing WC?
- do I need sponge filters in addition to 1 big canister filter?
- is it worth buying optiwhite glass aquarium just for the discus fish that I am planning to keep or it's better to save that money into higher quality fish/equipment
- is it worth buying fish from well known sellers while starting first discus tank or it's better to start off with group of cheap fish with small defects and gain some experience with them?
- should I invest into T5 or LED lightning system? should it be expensive or it has no impact in keeping discus?
- what are the main goals to keep them healthy and big (other than recent WC/regular feeding)
- should I go BB tank or can I go with sand and some easy to grow plants?
-where should I invest my money into? (high quality fish? good quality lightning? special equipment?)

Basically if you can recommend any well made product that is good enough for keeping discus in a 120G tank (starting from Lightining->filter->water pumps) I will be really thankful.


Looking forward to your ideas and suggestions also forgive my english as it's not my native language.

Cheers !:p

[rickztahone]

Hello Adrian and welcome to simplydiscus. I would suggest getting a liquid test kit instead of the strips. Not sure how available these are in Poland but I'm hoping you have some.

It looks like you've done a good bit of research which is very refreshing to see.

[Ryan925]

Sounds like you really have done your homework. That's definitely a great place to start.

Lighting doesn't matter so much as discus don't really care although they would prefer not to have really bright lights. Since it's a display tank I would say go led and something adjustable so that you can choose your desired look.

I would say as long as you have a canister rated for the size of your tank you would be fine. Some will tell you sponge filters are the only way to go but some of us just don't care to see them in a display tank.

Definitely start with quality fish. That will give you best chance for success.

As far as water aerate for 24 hrs and test ph. See how much of a swing. That will let you know if tap is OK. Some of us use straight tap others have to age.

I would avoid plants for starters.

Wc...well simple answer you will hear over and over is the more the better. Trying to get away with just the minimum will likely not get toy optimum results. Consider things to make water changes easier so it's not such a chore. A python and small external pump are well worth it.

Good luck

[JBurgo]

Everyone's financial situation is different, but in my experience.. Every time I've taken the cheaper option on aquarium components, I've either regretted it or had to go and buy the better component later (on top of the cost of the cheaper one I bought in the first place). The initial outlay will seem huge at first, but it's the worst place to skimp and save in the end. Actually, `ongoing costs` are where you want to try to save money if you can, which includes medicating and trying to save poor quality fish.

The better the glass, the better your fish will look when you start to get crystal clear water.
The better your lights, the better and more colourful your fish will look.
The better your filtration, the better your water quality will be.
The easier your filtration is to maintain, the more likely you will maintain it (I'd look into sumps for this reason- personal preference).
The quieter your system is, the easier it will be to live with, especially for other people in your household (here's what I do for quietness: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?127767-8-foot-Wild-Tank-and-Sump-plus-Water-Changes&highlight=).
Simple to operate, high quality equipment, easy to maintain, with quality fish. Larger fish are hardier but more expensive.

The most difficult thing, as you have suggested already, is that unless you `see and hear` the high quality equipment `actually running in an aquarium` yourself first, it's very difficult to know which of the high end stuff to get. Some of the high end stuff that you pay big dollars for, really aren't necessarily what they're cracked up to be.

One more thing.. you'll see 90-100% daily water changes, straight from the tap, and all sorts of water change techniques and recommendations. Some good advice here is to `go slow with that`. Take care with `everything you put in your tank`. Including livestock and water. Everything in there `you put in there`, especially if you're starting out. If you do a 90-100% water change and the water isn't `right`, you could kill your fish.. it's that simple. If you did a 30-50% change with the same water, you may still have a chance because it's diluted. Age and aerate your water (at least at first). Do less water changes at first (2 a week instead of daily), and build up to the bigger stuff. Everyone has different water, you need to give your fish a chance to tell you if they like what you're doing, in small increments. If they go dark, hit the bottom or they loose buoyancy, start hiding and their slime coat falls off, look into your water change method and preparation.

[nate c]

Hello Adrian and welcome to simplydiscus. I would suggest getting a liquid test kit instead of the strips. Not sure how available these are in Poland but I'm hoping you have some.

It looks like you've done a good bit of research which is very refreshing to see.

^x2 the research comment:D
i would purchase 5, 4 inch stendker fish and try some of the silk plants at first. I would then introduce some potted live amazon swords ,java moss leave them potted and watch the plants carefully.good luck

[Filip]

Czesc Adrian and Witamy to Simply discus :) .

You have certainly done your homework and pinpointed the most important aspect for succesfull discus keeping .

Since I sense that you will get serious in discus keeping , I would advice you to start with a healthy and quality discus . You dont want to waste I.e. 7 months of discus keeping to just realise that your cheap discus are not like you have wanted them to become . Piwo and Stendk. Is the way to go unless you have some trustworthy local breeder you can count on.

Grow out or a big discus ? This is a really important decision you have to make .

Filters . I'm fairly satisfied with my canister , sumps are even better , but any other good and big filter with sufficient turnover for your voulme will do the trick.

WCs . Most important aspect of discus keeping .
Try to find an experienced discus keeper in you area and ask him about the possibility for straight tap WCs .
Straight tap is a thin ice so only someone with same water as yours who have" been there-done that "can tell you if its harsh for discus or not.
PH swings and microbubbling should be your most important aspect when considering Straight tap vs aged water .

Lights. Discus don't care about lights , so buy whatever give you viewing pleasure .
Led with red and blue lights are the best for getting better colouration out of your discus and they can be combined and dimmed in many ways and effects. T5 s are more of a planters choice IMO.

Optiwhite front glass. All the way my friend if you can afford it . My friends discus tank with optiwhite glass looks like theres no water in it .The difference in visual clarity is night and day.

Try to write your parameters . I don't know which is which in JbLs strip tests.

Start with BB tank utill you get to know the things , and you can always put some once you feel confident to do so . You can have driftwood and potted plants for aesthetics if you like .
Starting with bigger discus is always easier , but more pricey too so knowing this , do whatever suits your wallet .

Good luck Adrian , and please keep us updatet with your progress.

[JBurgo]

Lights. Discus don't care about lights , so buy whatever give you viewing pleasure .
Led with red and blue lights are the best for getting better colouration out of your discus and they can be combined and dimmed in many ways and effects. T5 s are more of a planters choice IMO.

I certainly wish I got dimmable lights, an automatic day cycle would be even better. Lights turning on and off abruptly makes them skittish.

If I was getting a tank made, I would definitely go for Optiwhite front glass.

[Kyla]

also want to chime in and say i too wish i had gotten the dimmable LEDs that can turn on gradually, my guys hate it when the lights blast them. plus if k cpuld control the output on my LEDs i would turn it way down, its too high and grows algae everywhere and i barely have it on during the day.

[kadi]

Thank you all for the great suggestions and warm welcome, :D

I won't quote everyone of you but I have read each post carefully and taken every advice into consideration.

I know that gentlemen don't talk about money but I would be more than happy to ask some experienced hobbyst if the suggested aquarium setup is well-priced.

I have been to one of the recommended aquarium store in my neighbourhood and that's the estimate price of my aquarium setup that was proposed to me:


1. FullOpti white aquarium ready for sump (built in holes for water overflow etc.) ~~ 580$.

I am thinking if it's worth going full optiwhite with sump or just cut the cost and go for front optiwhite only

2. sump ~~ 150$

3. aquarium stand(frame with veneer and color of my choice) ~~ 350$

4. full cost of plumbing/hydraulics ~~ 80$

5. programmable LED lightning ~~ 250$

6. anything else that I need ? :confused:


I have recently finished my studies so I am a bit tight on budget (which means that I'd like to spend as low as possible while still maintaning high quality in my build)
Is it overpriced or that seems fair enough to go for it? Should I look somewhere else? Which of the stuff would you rather build yourself to cut down the cost and if so, is it worth it?

I choose to go with sump because of customable setting, high volume of filtration, even if its a bit noisy that's not a huge deal for me.

I have read almost entire Stendker sticky FAQ about their discus just to confront some opinions and what astonished me the most is that they suggest to go with 1 WC per week.
I believe I can achieve that with good filtration such as sump, still, the most important part is reading my water with test kits so regularity of WC could differ from time to time.

I prefer to spend a bit more cash upfront and have a nice running, future-proof tank setup rather than build low quality elements that will require me to invest money all the time or spend more time on WC/cleaning, repairs etc.

example of that would be spending more cash on a good quality filtration and saving let's say atleast 3 days without WCs thanks to higher water volume/superior filtration compared to sponge filters

What do you guys think about this? :)

[JBurgo]

You need to ask someone in Poland whether it's a reasonable price. I think it's hard to make a comparison internationally.

If your sump isn't `quiet - silent`, you're doing something wrong, or getting the wrong advice. Look up my system: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?127767-8-foot-Wild-Tank-and-Sump-plus-Water-Changes I recently made a noisy sump system into an absolutely silent one.

From advice I have received: With Discus, water changes aren't just about reducing Nitrates, they also remove other pathogens that aren't measured in the water test kits. I do 2x 50% water changes a week with my wilds, and I run Purigen, which I would consider an absolute minimum, any less wcs will increase maintenance in other areas, sludge and algae, dirty sump, etc. Because I do minimum wcs, I do other forms of daily maintenance (regular vacuuming and slow feeding) that take just as much time as a wc though. By the time it takes to test your water to see if you need a wc, often you might as well have just done a wc.

[warblad79]

That's a very well detailed research but trust me discus are not that complicated at all.

[Lido]

As far as pricing goes I am unable to give you a compare pricing with Poland. I am going to assume "optiglass" is similar to our US trademark starfire glass. In the US you can get a pre drilled 100 gallon 3 side starfire for around $500 US depending on the manufacturer, thickness of the glass and style of tank. I would recommend only having the front panel optiglass, you rarely will use the side panels for viewing, unless they directly face a high traffic area.

Also as mentioned if your overflow and sump are built correctly you shouldn't have any issues with noise. The wood stand cost can also be highly variable due to the type, cut and quality of the wood being used.

[discuspaul]

Sounds like you really have done your homework. That's definitely a great place to start.

Lighting doesn't matter so much as discus don't really care although they would prefer not to have really bright lights. Since it's a display tank I would say go led and something adjustable so that you can choose your desired look.

I would say as long as you have a canister rated for the size of your tank you would be fine. Some will tell you sponge filters are the only way to go but some of us just don't care to see them in a display tank.

Definitely start with quality fish. That will give you best chance for success.

As far as water aerate for 24 hrs and test ph. See how much of a swing. That will let you know if tap is OK. Some of us use straight tap others have to age.

I would avoid plants for starters.

Wc...well simple answer you will hear over and over is the more the better. Trying to get away with just the minimum will likely not get toy optimum results. Consider things to make water changes easier so it's not such a chore. A python and small external pump are well worth it.

Good luck

Good, straightforward, simple advice here - and very good overall advice from the several others.
Just get quality fish from a well respected source, and of the largest size you can afford.

Minimize & simplify all your equipping plans as much as possible initially, until you become well familiar with your discus' traits & behaviors, and you become fully familiar with the necessary routine for keeping them well & healthy.