Should I get a 12 footer?

[JBurgo]

I know I shouldn't, right? But.. there's this tank.. and it's only a few suburbs away.. and it's within my means.. and it has such potential!

It's gotta be 75-80cm high, and it'd have to be 2ft wide, and did I say it was a 12 footer! That's around 1800L, or 3x my current tank.

Huge water changes, even at 50% it's huge, and I'm paying for my water here, but I mean.. at the end of the day water is `affordable`, even a lot of it.

What's people's experience with extra large tanks? What's the bottom line with water changes if I were to do that? With my current stocking in 3x the water, can I add a refugium and get away without such massive water changes. I mean, changing that much water just seems a bit ridiculous to me, particularly seeing as I have no intention of changing the stocking level presently.

I guess I'm asking for people's experience with very large, heavily understocked Discus tanks.

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[pastry]

I actually dream of having a loooong tank. Not too wide or high but long. In your case, I would still pull the trigger. That's about 475 gallons so yeah, big water changes but like you said, it's all about stocking levels too. What water changes would you be able to do weekly?

[JBurgo]

I really have no idea because I haven't been in the ballpark of that size, I mean it's got a 6ft tank as a sump too. My thinking is that the minimum I could consider would be to turn the tank over once a week, with 2x 1000L changes. Remembering of course it'd be understocked by a fair way. I'd have to get a 1000L water tank for aging to even achieve that. I wouldn't really want to be pumping thousands of litres through it unnecessarily though, like I said, I don't know what would be needed in this situation.

[Jenene]

I honestly can't answer your water question but I know if I had a tank that large I would be so tempted to stock it up. If you have the discipline to keep the stock low that would be an impressive attribute!

Keep us in the loop. We can live vicariously through you if you take the plunge!

You would ditch the rainbow gravel though, right?:p

[JBurgo]

I honestly can't answer your water question but I know if I had a tank that large I would be so tempted to stock it up. If you have the discipline to keep the stock low that would be an impressive attribute!

Keep us in the loop. We can live vicariously through you if you take the plunge!

You would ditch the rainbow gravel though, right?:p

And.. I'd be there for hours with a razor blade getting that blue paint off the back!!
The taste is hilarious for someone with the ambition to go so large isn't it?

I think I could keep the stock where it is, I mean I'm pretty happy there, would be nice to see them in some space though, hey. It's probably just a daydream.. but then how do the youngsters say.. yolo or some such :) .

[Willie]

It won't be understocked for long! :o

[Kirbs]

I'd do it! Especially if you've got the space for it!

[jdhuyvetter]

yes

[JBurgo]

It won't be understocked for long! :o

OK, yeah, I do know how that works.. and you could be right, I am a human, and I'm a fishkeeper :) .

But all things being equal, and supposing I manage a super-human-fishkeeper effort, what could a wc schedule look like here.. I know it's not going to look like 100% daily changes.. Does it increase your ability to maintain water through a refugium and such? Or am I going to be smashing through extraordinary amounts of water.


I'd do it! Especially if you've got the space for it!

Well, I kinda do.. I mean my current 8 footer is a better fit for the bedroom (where it is), I couldn't fit the 12 footer in there and still make it through the door.. maybe the tape measure's faulty, I could always try anyway! It'd have to go in the living area, and there's only one wall where it could go. I'd have to move a few things, and make a few decisions, but it could happen.

Then I'm stuck with the issue of `what do I do with my current 8 footer`. That's really nice where it is, but.. can I maintain both, and would my wife let me keep both if I could.. I might be in trouble for longer than a few weeks this time. One of the problems for me is that the place where it would go is less appealing to me.

The positions are actually back to back, and the devil on my shoulder is whispering things like.. `You could join the systems together through the drywall and maintain the lot through the sump under the big tank, blah blah blah.. your wife won't mind.`


yes


I know right. The title of the thread should be.. `How many mates will I need to lift it?`

[Jack L]

yes

[Clawhammer]

You could go for a swim with your discus in that tank!

[alron2]

If you can pull this off and stay happily married I have a question, "Does
your wife have a sister that would be interested in coming to Alabama,USA"?
Ron

[JBurgo]

If you can pull this off and stay happily married I have a question, "Does
your wife have a sister that would be interested in coming to Alabama,USA"?
Ron

My wife thinks I should ask the question on the `My husband's getting another fish tank` forum.

[Filip]

Jason , if you stay with your current bioload and feeding regime and you triple the water volume I would assume that you can cut back on WC frequency x 2 or x 3 from what you change now . More water is more dilution so I think that you can safely cut back on the WCs without comprising your discus.

[Jack L]

FWIW, now that i'm not growing out discus, and feeding less, i've been able to reduce my WC schedule. i've also added water lettuce to the sump, and that could be helping too.

[pastry]

Jason, where the pics? Did you not get it yet? :antlers:

As for the wife... my wife and I call them "crack deals"... so what does SHE want? :idea2:

[JBurgo]

Jason , if you stay with your current bioload and feeding regime and you triple the water volume I would assume that you can cut back on WC frequency x 2 or x 3 from what you change now . More water is more dilution so I think that you can safely cut back on the WCs without comprising your discus.

FWIW, now that i'm not growing out discus, and feeding less, i've been able to reduce my WC schedule. i've also added water lettuce to the sump, and that could be helping too.
I know when we're talking about 100% changes on here, we're talking about much smaller tanks, and quite high bioloads. There's got to be a difference when it comes to quite large tanks, when the water becomes more sustainable, and needs less changes, particularly if the bioload stays relatively smaller. Thanks for the advice. I think the main thing holding `me` back is the idea of the amount of water I'd possibly be going through. But it does make more sense if the stability of the water allows for less frequent changes. The problem is still that in order to affect water quality, the changes (in my thinking) would still need to be large percentages when they happen. Or would it be a case of smaller percentages more frequently in this case?


Jason, where the pics? Did you not get it yet? :antlers:

As for the wife... my wife and I call them "crack deals"... so what does SHE want? :idea2:

Don't worry, I have a subtle plan.. I ask for this one (12x4x2.5).. and then she's happy when I compromise with the first one! Win Win!!

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[HarryDk]

I would say YES all the time, bigger is better :D, let worry about water change when you actually have it :P. Helpful? :D

[alron2]

Jason, where the pics? Did you not get it yet? :antlers:

As for the wife... my wife and I call them "crack deals"... so what does SHE want? :idea2:

That is what my wife would do to my head if I tried to bring home a 12 foot tank, Crack my head!

[JBurgo]

That is what my wife would do to my head if I tried to bring home a 12 foot tank, Crack my head!

I'm sure there's wives on here who's husbands would do the same too ;)

My wife's actually very good with the hobby, she enjoys the fish, she feigns interest in the technical aspects.. She even allows the 8 footer in the Master Bedroom! I'm probably not getting away with this one though, unfortunately. Although both those tanks I posted in this thread are for sale and within reach, also by my measurements either would fit through the door. The bigger one is actually cheaper.. probably because it doesn't have all the ornaments!

Wouldn't they be cool though. The second one's actually growing on me more!!

[adrian31@outlook.com]

If I had the space I'd get one this large.

I currently have 10 Discus in my 180gal tank. At each of my two feedings (filter off) I immediately put the Python in and let the siphon drain under it's own power. When tank is about 30% empty I quickly suck up any waste/food and refill, feeding time over. I find this method very doable.

I love having a large tank. I think I'd love having a 475gal even more. IMO you could change water on a pro-rated basis, i.e., if you have 10 discus in your 475gal tank, then change 50 gallons water per day, which would be like changing 50% of water in a 100gal daily. But of course it all depends on how many feedings. You could use some best practices, ex/ feed less messy food only on one side of tank to make cleaning easier.

TL;DR: go for it.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

I'm sure there's wives on here who's husbands would do the same too ;)

My wife's actually very good with the hobby, she enjoys the fish, she feigns interest in the technical aspects.. She even allows the 8 footer in the Master Bedroom! I'm probably not getting away with this one though, unfortunately. Although both those tanks I posted in this thread are for sale and within reach, also by my measurements either would fit through the door. The bigger one is actually cheaper.. probably because it doesn't have all the ornaments!

Wouldn't they be cool though. The second one's actually growing on me more!!

8-footer in the master bedroom lol! Wow she sounds awesome:) Good deal.

[DatDiscusDude]

If I had the space I'd get one this large.

I currently have 10 Discus in my 180gal tank. At each of my two feedings (filter off) I immediately put the Python in and let the siphon drain under it's own power. When tank is about 30% empty I quickly suck up any waste/food and refill, feeding time over. I find this method very doable.

I love having a large tank. I think I'd love having a 475gal even more. IMO you could change water on a pro-rated basis, i.e., if you have 10 discus in your 475gal tank, then change 50 gallons water per day, which would be like changing 50% of water in a 100gal daily. But of course it all depends on how many feedings. You could use some best practices, ex/ feed less messy food only on one side of tank to make cleaning easier.

TL;DR: go for it.

I was going to chime in with something similar. Sites such as this preach the more water the better, etc. In theory, this is great and easy to grasp, clean fresh water should never hurt your fish. However, most of this preaching comes from those growing fish out, feeding large quantities of food, sometimes in smaller sized tanks. So those factors make for messy tanks that require the big WC.

Once you have full grown, hopefully healthy fish, with less feedings, the rate at which water must be changed goes down drastically. You, like myself, have wild discus, which, in my experience, actually prefer the slower, less frequent changes. It has been talked about quite often, that these large changes contribute to whirling, etc. I noticed it first hand, my fish seemed to appreciate changes every other day to every 3rd day of 50% then daily 50-100% changes.

The fish will truly tell you and if you know your fish, it will be so easy to see changes in them. You can also test the water and see where your breaking points are and at what rate the chemistry begins to decline.

I'd take the trial and error approach and be ready with water on hand at all times and just see and react. I feel like I went from changing water daily or 3-4 times a week to maybe twice a week. My fish seem happier and so am I !

[Jack L]

still yes

[JBurgo]

If I had the space I'd get one this large. I love having a large tank. I think I'd love having a 475gal even more.
I've got to say that I definitely want to, and will some day, even if it's not today. As an experienced 2nd hand tank buyer, I am a bit concerned with ending up with someone else's problems too. I mean, I definitely have in mind exactly what I'd do if I was starting from scratch, and in either case with those tanks, it's not exactly that.

I mean, at the moment I'm compromising and wasting time during maintenance with my 8 footer, due to dealing with someone else's design problems. So I'll probably refit the whole sump and plumbing soon. This is only going to be compounded with an even larger tank.

I've been influenced a lot by Takashi Amano's designs, I don't think you can tell because my tanks are an absolute low tech cringe-worthy attempt, but my point is: I'd like to have a low to the ground (knee height) tank, going up to around head height, influenced by the shape of his tanks. That could be up to 4'x4'x12' at 5000 L or 1400 US Gallons. If I plumbed through the wall, I could use the entire underneath of my present 8' tank as a sump for both tanks, running them off one system. Of course, that's an absolute pie in the sky dream, but my point is, do I drag in someone else's problems now, or shoot for what `I might make` myself with a 5 year plan?

@DatDiscusDude Your experience with Wilds sounds a lot like mine.

@Jack Believe me, I'm still very tempted, someone else's problems still have a lot of potential!!

[William1]

I agree with the dude. Adult wilds don't need 90% water changes or whatever. My one bout with whirling disease was when I increased feeding and water changes because I read on here how much others do it. Went back to my regular routine of 20% a day and no problems since.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

I mean, at the moment I'm compromising and wasting time during maintenance with my 8 footer, due to dealing with someone else's design problems. So I'll probably refit the whole sump and plumbing soon. This is only going to be compounded with an even larger tank.

Appears you have much to consider, I didn't realize you already had some experience with big tanks. My 180gal is acrylic, and the largest I've had, but due to my experience with many glass tanks, I'd personally never want a glass tank larger than 55 gallons.

[Jenene]

If I had the space I'd get one this large.

I currently have 10 Discus in my 180gal tank. At each of my two feedings (filter off) I immediately put the Python in and let the siphon drain under it's own power. When tank is about 30% empty I quickly suck up any waste/food and refill, feeding time over. I find this method very doable.

I just tried your feeding and draining at the same time Kenny. I would have thought the food would get sucked out before they could eat but putting the hose in the opposite corner from where I tossed the food worked great. Multitasking in this hobby is a win. Thanks for the tip.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

I just tried your feeding and draining at the same time Kenny. I would have thought the food would get sucked out before they could eat but putting the hose in the opposite corner from where I tossed the food worked great. Multitasking in this hobby is a win. Thanks for the tip.

No problem Jenene, I've actually been doing this for a while now, it cuts out the extra step of pumping out water, and my fish are completely comfortable with the siphon tube.

Right now waiting on a water level alarm that I ordered which sounds an alert at two levels (low and high) that you can set. This should be a godsend can't wait to see how well it does.

EDIT: I'm getting so tired of my water changes turning into 'also clean the entire floor' when my tank overflows. I know there's a better way...:)

[Clawhammer]

I guess a tank that big needs to be in the basement... I would constantly worry about my foundation!

[Jenene]

No problem Jenene, I've actually been doing this for a while now, it cuts out the extra step of pumping out water, and my fish are completely comfortable with the siphon tube.

Right now waiting on a water level alarm that I ordered which sounds an alert at two levels (low and high) that you can set. This should be a godsend can't wait to see how well it does.

EDIT: I'm getting so tired of my water changes turning into 'also clean the entire floor' when my tank overflows. I know there's a better way...:)

Let me know how that works for you Kenny. I have overflowed so many times. It goes straight to the basement into my husband's "man cave" inches from his giant television. That is so not cool...

[Jenene]

I guess a tank that big needs to be in the basement... I would constantly worry about my foundation!

I was just mentioning this giant tank to a neighbor out of envy. One gallon of water weighs 8.34 pounds. So the weight of just the tank and the water would be 3,961.5 pounds! That is a lot of weight concentrated in a 12 foot spot!

[bwssr]

I want to see pictures of this tank with Discus in it. Soon.

[Jenene]

I want to see pictures of this tank with Discus in it. Soon.

Me too!!! It is killing me. It is going to be a discus keeper's dream!

[adrian31@outlook.com]

I guess a tank that big needs to be in the basement... I would constantly worry about my foundation!

No homes have basements here since the entire Island is limestone rock, some areas are lucky to have a thin layer of topsoil. Makes for a good foundation though.

[Jenene]

No homes have basements here since the entire Island is limestone rock, some areas are lucky to have a thin layer of topsoil. Makes for a good foundation though.

A good foundation for a 475 gallon tank Kenny. You're next.

[JBurgo]

I was just mentioning this giant tank to a neighbor out of envy. One gallon of water weighs 8.34 pounds. So the weight of just the tank and the water would be 3,961.5 pounds! That is a lot of weight concentrated in a 12 foot spot!
Metric is so much simpler: 1800 L = 1800 Kg.. I just did that in my head just then :)


No homes have basements here since the entire Island is limestone rock, some areas are lucky to have a thin layer of topsoil. Makes for a good foundation though.
We don't have basements here either, but I am on a cement slab.

I only empty my tank to the volume of my aging barrel, so it could never overflow my tank, it would run the pump dry though. I have a shut off valve attached to the hose when I fill my aging barrel, when it reaches the top it lets off a scream and shuts off, my barrels are in the bathroom so if it failed the water would just go down the drain.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Let me know how that works for you Kenny. I have overflowed so many times. It goes straight to the basement into my husband's "man cave" inches from his giant television. That is so not cool...

Good way to signal him when he's ignoring you (as every guy does from time to time, believe me I know) :)

I'll let you know how it works.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

A good foundation for a 475 gallon tank Kenny. You're next.

My wife just might move out that day, as the tank is coming in. She'd never have it unfortunately.

[Jenene]

[QUOTE=JBurgo;1256938]Metric is so much simpler: 1800 L = 1800 Kg.. I just did that in my head just then :)
/QUOTE]

I need to get on board with all of you metric people. The US should switch- it works for the rest of the world- then I would have to learn it. :huh:

So by your last post you have the water, and the slab to put it on. Your stars are aligned my friend...

[alron2]

My wife just might move out that day, as the tank is coming in. She'd never have it unfortunately.

Another trustful man.
Ron

[JBurgo]

Have you guys seen these (it's what I use for a shut off valve). You could rig it to your tank on a hose fitting:
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[adrian31@outlook.com]

Another trustful man.
Ron

Sorry

[pastry]

8 ft'er in bedroom? So what did you have to give for that? No hanky panky per month for each ft? Diamond necklace? Appendage?

Hell, if I saw a 12 ft'er after that... I'd RUN!!!!!!!!!!!

So did you get it yet or what? Just put ice on it... applies to any of the three :antlers: