Paul's 1st discus tank

[Paul Sabucchi]

Hi to all, finally the loooong and slooooow countdown to February 2018 has started then ,God willing, I will celebrate my 1st 1/2 century by getting some discus. These last few months I have been swatting both here and on some local (Italian) forums as there are obvious differences in how to keep these fish compared to all the others I have.
I saw an irresistible bargain and took home a lightly used 24x24x43 in. for 100 gal. currently outside for cleaning, checking and plugging the hole for the sump overflow.
Plan is to get 10 or so juvies about 3 in. direct from a good breeder (hopefully Francesco Penazzi who, as advised by a member of this forum, is one of the top Italian breeders, 2nd in the reds at the last France Discus). The tank will be kept BB at least untill fully grown, at least 50% daily water change. Tapwater TDS 90 ppm, KH 3, pH 7.5 (after 24 hours), Chlorine 0 and nitrate 0 on Sera liquid tests. Filter will probably be a Jebao 304 (currently happily running 3 of them) completely loaded with biomedia and a sponge prefilter in the tank, so it can easily be rinsed as I vacum the bottom. Should I double the filters from the start or only as the fish grow?
Heating will be through a 300 w in-line (Hydor or SunSun) with a 300w Eheim Jager backup all overseen by an STC 1000.
As my tapwater is pretty decent can I age the tapwater for just 12 hours before using it?
Here is the tank, with an oak branch I may use once the growth phase is over.
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/Paul_Sabucchi/20170329_182053_zpslf2a7hpj.jpg (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Sabucchi/media/20170329_182053_zpslf2a7hpj.jpg.html)
As for the variety of fish, not quite sure if to go for all the same or go for a "colour theme" like Red Melon, PB and pissibly Red Rose (that being non PB could lead to peppering but not keen on breeding at least to start) or maybe instead a blue theme (blue diamond, Turqs and Heckel/turq cross). I have a decent generator to cover for powercuts (snow took the powerlines down again this einter).
Any advice really welcome. Ciao

[Filip]

Congratulation on your new discus project Paul .
From your plan I think that youve done your homework and you sound pretty prepared for succesfull discus raising .
Why waiting another year to get your discus ?
I didn't understand so you plan to mix different sources /breeders for discus , or you plan to get them all at once from one breeder?
Try not to mix different sources.
Francesco Pennazi is a sound name in discus bussines and he has some stunning Heckel crosses , along with many other strains and great looking discus.

As for filters, if you do plan to run 2 jebao for the long run , you might just run them both right from the start . Too much filtration cant hurt , just be carefull with restricting too much water flow .

About aging. I think 12 hours will be enough if you manage to aggitate water more , for example with a strong filter pump instead of just an airstone .Better agitation =faster outgassing and PH stabilizing.

This wood with white deposits looks like it was sprayed with pesticides.Be careful of that.

I like your "colour theme " idea . Just be sure to get discus from a single source instead of mixing them .

Good luck Paul .

[Paul Sabucchi]

Thanks for your advice. I'll wait because this way my 50th birthday will be memorable, I will use the intervening time to set things up best I can, mostly to make water changes as easy as possible so to encourage me to do plenty of water changing. The tank will be in our master bedroom, by my side of the bed where we already had a smaller tank, (that will make 3 tanks in the bedroom and 3 in the living room) but I had drilled holes in the wall for the hoses so the filters can go in the adjoining kitchen. Will probably have a T on one of the hoses to the filters so at the turn of 2 taps the tank water drains straight to my veggie plot, and I can easily fill tha ageing tank (I always leave a headpump rather than an airstone in the ageing tank) in the kitchen and then pump the water back via a T in a return hose.
I would definitely not mix fish from different breeders, heck if the breeder advises against it I would even scrap the idea of the colour theme and stick with one colour, and yes I really would like to get the fish from Francesco (I always check his facebook page to see what he is up to - as he has a good day-job he breeds because he is passionate about producing top quality fish to show). The white patches in the oak branch is just lichen growth, I felled that tree on our land last month and I am sure none of our oaks have ever been treated with chemicals, the trees are even a good 200 yards from our fruit trees that I give the bare minimum of chemicals as the fruit is just for our consumption. That oak branch anyway would only go in the tank once the fish have done most of their growing. Still undecided about preventive medication during quarentine, over here folks don't tend to do it especially if the fish are going in a tank of their own but I will probaly follw Al's advice and do levamisole, praziquantel and metronidazole to be on the safe side. Ciao from Italy and Grazie for your advice

[Neptune]

The gray is probably lichens. I see it all the time on my oaks. But either way it is not good for your tank. Those lichens will break down to fowl your water quickly. I would strip all the bark off an oak branch. And to go one step further, oaks have a high tannin content. They will leach out of that piece for a long time- boiling will help, unless you want them in the tank. Some people do.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Thank you for the advice, I was planning to remove the bark and anyway it should peel off easy as I would not put any decoration in the tank untill the fish have done most of their growing, so the branch has over 2 years to dry out! It would be nice to be able to boil sone of the tannins out but a bit difficult to find a 45 x25 inch pot, even around here where folks still grow their own tomatoes to make their own jars of sauce, that get boiled in big, but not big enough, pots. Ciao from Italy

[gluedandscrewed]

2 years waiting to complete your set up Paul? must be the most patient person in the world!!!! 1 month to buy old 100 gal tank, disassemble, replace the front glass, reassemble the tank,, build a wooden cabinet for it, build a 3D background with waterfall,(Styrofoam, cement, paint and epoxy resin) plant the tank, fill with water, put in 9 discus and enjoy..(no waiting for months to cycle tank) fish have been in for a month, growing nicely, feeding like damn piranhas, calm, not bothered by me being around the tank on in the tank. So much for the convoluted procedures of the many self proclaimed "experts"

P.S. the wife must a saint also!!!

[Paul Sabucchi]

I get you, but I have to admit I have a few other "pet projecs" to keep me entertained: 2 x 100 gal Mbuna tanks, 60 gal "southamerican", 50 gal Oranda, 12 gal Oto "Cocama" and CRShrimp, not to mention 3 horses, 25 dogs -from 3 maltese to 3 great danes, 12 cats, 3 pet pigs, Serama and Brahma chickens and Runner ducks! I have to slow down the pursuit of my bucket list or else I'll struggle to cope; mind you now the wife is developing an unhealthy interest for flowerhorns, she is going about the house with a tape-measure... Ciao

[gluedandscrewed]

I am humbled!!!! just how much of the adriatic coast do you own???years ago spent a bit of time on the other side of the boot,,,,in what we referred to as the armpit of europe

P.S... should have known better than give the wife a tape measure

[Paul Sabucchi]

Not a lot, just 10 acres of hilly land half way down the length of the boot (makes for great views but it is a bugger to farm!) I am sincerely hoping that realizing the beauty of discus the wife will see the error of her ways... I mean... A freaking flowerhorn!

[gluedandscrewed]

you will have to educate us dumb americans,,, flowerhorn?????? and if you are wondering, Napoli we termed the armpit,

[Paul Sabucchi]

Flowerhorn is a kind of hybrid concocted first in Malaysia crossing various cichlids mostly of central american origin. The main feature is an enormous nuchal hump
https://youtu.be/K8Y76xpdUrQ
I get why you called Naples the armpit, never been too keen to go there myself but every 2-3 years they have a decent fish show so may have to make an effort. Ciao

[Paul Sabucchi]

Hi, still attempting to make my mind up about what strain to chose. I will probably go for a red theme. Here are francesco Penazzi's Red melon, sin, rose and cover. Would it be ill advised to mix the melon with the other (non PB) reds?

[DatDiscusDude]

Paul, it looks like you have some great offerings and some lovely red to choose from... Are those the strain names? So the second one is "Red Sin" if so, those are gorgeous and would be my choice! The fourth pic is nice as well, but I love that deep red of pic 2....

Most will say not to mix a PB and a non-PB because of the genetics and possible breeding. If they were to mix, the chances are that the offspring would be heavily peppered and not so desirable. If they will be in a community tank with no plans to breed then you can do whatever is pleasing to your eye and what you like to see.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Thanks for the advice, Francesco got 2nd with one of hisjkred melons at the last France discus so really difficult to take a pass on them, but on the other hand I suppose here now red melons are getting "a bit too common". I am not planning to breed (mainly because I have no room left for growout tanks and little time to spare for looking after the offspring). Having said this, as my tapwater is pretty soft (90 ppm) there is a chance the fish may breed and it would be a shame if the result would be peppered "mutts". I'll try to post more photos of these fish he is breeding. On a different note I think I will go for a Schego 300w titanium heater controlled by an Stc 1000 buuuuut as the tank will be close to a radiator I had another of my crackpot ideas, having a circuit to warm up the tankwater by running along the radiator...
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/Paul_Sabucchi/20170330_161913_zpshftg3vir.jpg (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Sabucchi/media/20170330_161913_zpshftg3vir.jpg.html)
So if hypothetically I would luke to keep the temperature between 28 and 29 C I would have an Inkbird 308 set at 29 to make sure that above that temperature both heating methods are shut off, have an Stc 1000 with the probe on the radiator so when it is hot it would turn on the pump that runs tank water through a silicone pipe around the radiator and also it would switch off the Schego. The latter would be controlled by it's own Stc 1000 set at 28.5... Let me know if you think it sounds feasable

[CraigJ]

I am sincerely hoping that realizing the beauty of discus the wife will see the error of her ways... I mean... A freaking flowerhorn!

Hi Paul,

I don't know how I missed your above comment, but I think I like your wife! :) I've had Donald for about 2.5 years and he is a fantastic pet;


https://vimeo.com/213108475

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3929/33886220891_f1083bd972_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TCpJTM)

[Paul Sabucchi]

Your Donald looks Fab! The wife is even more taken with them now. At sone point we may have to remove some furniture to fit another big tank, problem is most of tge furniture is full of her stuff and she wants to keep it! Ciao from Italy

[CraigJ]

Well, just remember, even Flowerhorns start out small and only require a smallish tank. No reason you can't put a 40L tank on top of some of her furniture. And if it helps, here is Donald meditation through yoga (either that, or he's waiting for a ship to sail past in order to play Moby-Dick :bandana:).

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2809/34084438115_237a48d984_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TVVDY8)

[Paul Sabucchi]

Thanks Donald looks fantastic. Will keep flowerhorn on the to-do list. Ciao

[Paul Sabucchi]

Sooo...here is me messing about with crackpot ideas about radiators (got bags of time anyway...) and today Francesco Penazzi announced he is going to quit breeding for the forseable future! Good job I got the tank early, I have sent him an enquiry message for a dozen juvies (awaiting reply). Should he say fish are available, if together with the fish I picked up from him a sponge filter, would it be possible to start the tank with no previous cycling? Advice much appreciated

[MarkGSmith]

If you can change enough water you'll be Ok. The health of the fish must be paramount of course and you'll need to be understocked, overfiltered and doing WCs like youre on whiz. I hear good things about some of the active bacteria additives that can be added with fish present and can colonise your filter in less than a week. If you go that route check the date on the bottle; fresh is good, 6 moths old is fair and 12 months old is useless. I'm no expert though so wait for more experienced opinions....I'm verbose because I had a glass of wine! :)

[Paul Sabucchi]

Thanks, still not decided what to do as Francesco seems to have available mostly new and unproven crosses (red cover x heckel is one) so maybe I will go to another breeder, also a lot closer and therecwould be all the time to set the tank up properly; he is most proud of his reds from brown (red rose and red cover). Here is one of his breeders, thoughts?

[DatDiscusDude]

Paul,

That is a lovely fish you posted! Those are available?

This is a tough decision. In the end.. It is really your call and personal preference.

To answer your first question, you can easily start and cycle the tank with fish. Even easier with the seeded sponge from the supplier if you are starting fresh. That being said and as you have been advised above. You will really need to bust your hump to stay on top of it and keep the water good and all of that fun stuff. Plenty of people here have started tanks up on a whim and just keep doing big daily or twice daily WC. You become the filter at that point until your filter of choice can catch up.

I understand the need and desire to have a tank full of a well known breeders stock. Especially if said breeder is calling it quits. Yet, I feel like that luster may wear off after a few weeks months. If you aren't happy with the fish, in the end, who cares where they came from. You need to look at these fish daily, care for them daily and you need to be happy with how they look. Ill take a fish I consider nice or pretty from a no name over an eh fish from some head honcho breeder any day.

At the end of the day it comes down to your gut and your taste. Go with what you find visually appealing and what will motivate you to give the best care. Discus are a long term commitment. These fish can live a long time with the proper care and environment so remember that as you choose. Do I want these fish for the next 5 years? 10 years?

[Paul Sabucchi]

Thanks for your advice, I aggree with what you said. Although the well known breeder who will be clising down has won loads of trophies I am not entirely convinced by what he has on offer now while the newer breeder although not competing in international shows does have a solid reputation and being a lot closer it means I could go and have a look first before I decide what to buy. Also with no rush I can set the tank up with a proper fishless cycle. Thanks for helping to make my mind up

[DatDiscusDude]

Happy to help and glad to hear it cleared some things for you...

Like I said, it seems like you can't go wrong, that being said, why not go as RIGHT as possible! LOL...

I get that the closing down guy is well known, however, his past trophies will not be in your tank. Not the trophies nor the fish who won them. If you ask me, a breeder is only as good as what he has in his tanks. He could have won all the awards in the world. If the fish in his tank aren't near that caliber then like I said at the end of the day you will not be happy, you will loose interest and in turn the fish will suffer...

Take a breeder like the famed Piwoarski - Some people flip for certain strains, other strains are eh...

Like I said, these aren't cars, we aren't driving around with a big logo or something. The fish don't wear a label that says, " I may not be that nice, but I am from famed breeder XYZ" and everyone suddenly forgets the fish isn't that pretty and raves about the breeder!

I think you are making the right call... Go see with your own two, take your time and set your tank, get fish that appeal to you and in the end you will be very happy.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Set-up continues, decided rather than paint the ourside of the tank to try coloured yoga mats, arrived yesterday. Decided to play it safe, cream for the bottom and mid blue for the back and one side. I put the bottom (cream) mat smooth side up while for the sides i left the ribbed side on show to see if it would add a little visual interest. I don't dislike it!
Really happy to have a 100gal bedside table! Dogs are ok with it, one of my great danes (spoilt rotten - she is a rescue and is deaf) keeping my spot warm during the day at night sleeps on the ottoman with her head tucked under the tank.
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/Paul_Sabucchi/20170428_122825_zpsranfwrm8.jpg (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Sabucchi/media/20170428_122825_zpsranfwrm8.jpg.html)
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/Paul_Sabucchi/20170428_130918_zpsa7mkqkqr.jpg (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Sabucchi/media/20170428_130918_zpsa7mkqkqr.jpg.html)
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/Paul_Sabucchi/20170428_124107_zpsdwuquivj.jpg (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Sabucchi/media/20170428_124107_zpsdwuquivj.jpg.html)
Tried the oak "tree" for fit and then celebrated with a tinny of ichnusa, a nice Sardinian beer and hopefully the only kind of "ich" to ever come anywhere near the tank.
Next step will be sorting the filter and plumbing so to make water changes very easy, fit a TC420 to dim the LEDs and and sorting the heating.
Sometime soon I should be invited to see the facilities at the breeder of the Red Rose in the photo above.




Ciao

[Ryan925]

Set-up continues, decided rather than paint the ourside of the tank to try coloured yoga mats, arrived yesterday. Decided to play it safe, cream for the bottom and mid blue for the back and one side. I put the bottom (cream) mat smooth side up while for the sides i left the ribbed side on show to see if it would add a little visual interest. I don't dislike it!
Really happy to have a 100gal bedside table! Dogs are ok with it, one of my great danes (spoilt rotten - she is a rescue and is deaf) keeping my spot warm during the day at night sleeps on the ottoman with her head tucked under the tank.
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/Paul_Sabucchi/20170428_122825_zpsranfwrm8.jpg (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Sabucchi/media/20170428_122825_zpsranfwrm8.jpg.html)
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/Paul_Sabucchi/20170428_130918_zpsa7mkqkqr.jpg (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Sabucchi/media/20170428_130918_zpsa7mkqkqr.jpg.html)
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h413/Paul_Sabucchi/20170428_124107_zpsdwuquivj.jpg (http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/Paul_Sabucchi/media/20170428_124107_zpsdwuquivj.jpg.html)
Tried the oak "tree" for fit and then celebrated with a tinny of ichnusa, a nice Sardinian beer and hopefully the only kind of "ich" to ever come anywhere near the tank.
Next step will be sorting the filter and plumbing so to make water changes very easy, fit a TC420 to dim the LEDs and and sorting the heating.
Sometime soon I should be invited to see the facilities at the breeder of the Red Rose in the photo above.




Ciao

Very interesting piece of wood and can't go wrong with a nice tall can. Being from the Pacific north west we have amazing craft beer

[Paul Sabucchi]

Most of the big name Italian brands of beer (peroni, moretti, poretti and even that sardinian one) are now owned by Heineken or some other big multinational. There is a decent micro-brewery 5 miles from here but I live in wine country, drinkable plonk is cheaper than petrol if I could run the car on medium-dry white I'd be laughing. Ciao

[Jenene]

The wood looks amazing Paul (as well as the beer!) I love the dramatic twists and turns in it. The way it sits on the bottom will make it so easy to clean under. Mine sits up on little "feet" and I can fit a hand under it to clean. Makes maintenance way easier.

Looking great! Can't wait to see some livestock in there!

[bluelagoon]

The only thing that concerns me is the bark on the wood.It should be removed.It'll break down much faster than the hard wood underneath and can be a bit messy,especially if there is any sap left in it from not being completely cured.

[Jenene]

The only thing that concerns me is the bark on the wood.It should be removed.It'll break down much faster than the hard wood underneath and can be a bit messy,especially if there is any sap left in it from not being completely cured.

I was wondering about that too but no one had mentioned it up until now. Paul, was the wood completely dead and dry? Could you peel or sand the bark off?

[Paul Sabucchi]

Thanks for the advice, I am going to strip the bark to avoid problems but as I felled the tree only 2 months ago the bark is still really tough to remove (any tips welcome), I will leave the branch to "bake" through the hopefully long hot Italian summer and see if it comes off, I know that it comes off easy from oak left a couple of years and I have been advised anyway to put as little as possible in the way of decor untill the fish are grown (as I am planning to grow out juvies it will take at least 18 months). Eventually I would like to have some epiphitic plants (Bucephalandra?) to provide foliage on the topmost branches of the "tree" and just a thin layer of amber sand on the bottom but tempted as I am by the pursuit of an aesthetically pleasing tank I do not want to compromise the correct growth of the fish by prematurely placing in the tank items that get in the way of keeping a clean tank and pristine water conditions. I really value all the information and advice from this forum, thank you again to everyone!

[Paul Sabucchi]

Hi, I had ordered for this 100 gal tank a 300w Schego Titanium heater but there is a problem with supply so only 250w or 600w available. So optoins were either 2x250 or 1x600. I went for the 600w, thinking that these heaters are supposed to be as reliable as it gets I din't need the redundancy of having 2 heaters in the tank and the extra juice may help if I need to bump up the temperature. I am happy with the setup I have in other tanks with an STC 1000 and an Inkbird 308 for extra safety (and the audible allarms)

[DatDiscusDude]

Did you decide which route to go with the fish?

[Paul Sabucchi]

Decided to stick to the original plan and wait for my 50th birthday in February to get the fish. I am really looking forward to enjoying these fish and would rather take my time, dot my T's and cross my I's :confused: and try to avoid major screw-ups.
Now that Penazzi is not breeding anymore I still have the breeder an hour or so drive away. In the photo are two of the breeding pairs he is giving away so hopefully the ones he is keeping should be better. In the mean time I keep looking around for other options
Unfortunately the other really good breeder (SG discus) is in Milan - at least 12hour round drive and I can't be absent for that long. They do ship to some shops within range but I would like to see what I am getting.
In the mean time with the heater I should be getting a large sponge filter to use as prefilter and some Bucephalandra plants that I will start growing out in (one or two -if I decide to try emersed as well) separate 10g tanks, this way by the time the fish are fully grown and I can put my oak in I may have enough plants to give it a bit of a canopy. I still have to get a 60gal bin to age the water and a few yards of hose to make water changes as easy as possible (my veggie plot next spring/summer will be watered like never before!).
In the mean time I keep following the forum to learn as much as possible.
Kind regards

[Paul Sabucchi]

Goodies arrived! Happy with the german titanium heater and big filter sponge but absolutely chuffed with the two Buce plants, so much growth on them for such slow growing plants, and for a measily 3.50 euros each! Will rig up a small tank with blue/red plant growth LEDs, a small pump for water movement and plenty of NPK ferts. Pity I don't use CO2 in any of my tanks otherwise I could probably speed growth up a bit (may try some liquid carbon).

[Filip]

Great purchase Paul .
I gues you can boil a soup or a coffie with this 600w heater if you like to . :) .
Where did you order this heater and the Buces ?
Did the buces survived the long shipping without any damage ?

About your plant growing tank I advice you to make a simple yeast bottle CO2 injection .
It is very easy to be made , and it helps a lot compared to a non co2 pumped plant growth .
If you are too lazy to DIY you can order this cheap bottle caps for yeast Co2 from EBay :

http://m.ebay.com/itm/DIY-CO2-System-Kit-D201-Tube-Valve-Guage-Bottle-Cap-For-Aquarium-Moss-Plant-dui-/171376313316?hash=item27e6d303e4%3Ag%3AHgAAAOxy63F S-ePG&_trkparms=pageci%253Af4a1be59-41eb-11e7-bc32-74dbd180f642%257Cparentrq%253A43d6402c15c0a991b258 97aeffff70cc%257Ciid%253A1


Having separate tank made especially for plant growth is my long desire too .But unfortunately I lack space in my apartment , as well as permits from my wife for another tank in our apartment :) .

Growing them well with NPK and Co2, potted in a rich nutrient soil pots ,and have them ready to use for my discus display tank would be my plan , if I ever have my plant growing tank .
Well cared , deeply rooted in rich soil ,and potted plant is much more resistant for discus tanks , than just buying a plant from a LFS and half way killing it with bleach prior its use .

[Paul Sabucchi]

Really impressed by the Schego heater, you are right it is solid as a military grade weapon and if my electric kettle ever breaks I will have no problem boiling some water for a cup of tea! (not having a built in thermostat you need to get an Inkbird 308 or an STC 1000 temperature controller) I get most of my stuff here in Italy from Aquariumline, probably best online retailer in this country. They only have two vaieties of Bucephalandra but there are many more (this post is by a chap -I think he is Polish- who has/imports/possibly sells most varieties of Bucephalandra you never even knew existed https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/bucephalandra-all-in-one.26970/ ). Ciao

[Paul Sabucchi]

Over the last few weeks I have been narrowing down the choice of strain (pigeon checkerboard and red melon, 6 of each about 4") and the search for suppliers of top quality fish over here in Italy and now that Francesco Penazzi has wound down his fishroom it seems to leave 3 professional breeders, 2 near Naples (Gennaro Nuzzo and AquariumAngri) and 1 near Milan, SG Discus (probably one of the top breeders in Europe) here is a video of their facility https://youtu.be/MAuOWWT0UEE if you can stay awake through the first part about air pumps, heat exchangers and r/o systems once you get to the fish it gets interesting. They do not sell direct to the public so I'll go through a shop in Milan (that also gives the choice of discus imported from NaDiscus in Asia), they overnight the fish sending them at 5 p.m.,I should then be able to collect them from my local courrier depo the following morning at 8. They swear by their packaging but just the same I will not wait for my birthday in February but get the fish around the 2nd half of September when the weather should grant warm but not scoarching temperature. For this reason I have started the fishless cycle seeding the media with (Prodibio Biodigest) starter coultures, ammonia and a pinch of Amminovita P (aminoacids, nucleic acids and vitamins I normally give to my CR shrimp) hoping to speed up things without risking potential pathogens. As the tank is going to be left BB at least until the fish are grown for now there is not a lot left to do, just tinkering with the lighting the bulk of which is from 2x1 meter 3560 x 6000k LED bars while colour hue can be tweaked by 3x90cm 5050 rgb LED bars, all controlled by a TC420 that will also do the timing, dimming, dawn and dusk effects.

[Filip]

Great news Paul. You'll have your discus in less than 2 months . Enough time to get started with your tank and establish a Bacteria colony in your filters . Just don't forget to feed the colonies with ammonia or food until then.

At the end of the SG video I saw some stunning looking Red melons and Checkers in a same tank and they look great together as a combo.
Some high quality fish and facility they have there .A very good place to buy discus from Paul.
I would drive to hand pick mine I I were you though , Napoli - Milano is not a big distance for choosing your own discus .

[Paul Sabucchi]

Problem is SG does not sell direct to the public anyway, you have to go through one of their retailers and I will probably go with the specialist one in Milan (discus is 90%of their turnover) who would overnight - not the cheapest but probably the most reliable. Even if I could go myself to SG from where I live (other side of the boot from naples) it would be a 12 hour round trip and I can't leave all my animals for that long so I will have to do the next best thing and use a retailer with good reputation. Ciao

[Paul Sabucchi]

Ok, the 100gal BB tank is cycled and more or less ready, filtration is by a Fluvall 306 with a large sponge filter in the tank as prefilter, all plumbed to ease wc just by turning a few taps and switching on the pump from the aging barrel. Heating is by a 600w Schego titanium heater controlled by an Inkbird 308 and an STC 1000 for redundancy. Lighting is by 2x cool white and 3xrgb LED strips controlled through a TC420 (set at no more than 8% of max power for now). Thinking of ordering the fish 2nd half of September for temperatures safer for shipping, most likely from a specialized retailer in Milan (The Royal Discus), that only stocks italian fish from SG or Malaysian from NaDiscus. Will be getting SG bred 2.5" red melons and pigeon checkerboard or roadmap. I have a few questions:
1)Should I order 12 in case one or two will need culling as they grow?
2)During growout is it adviseable to keep the tank with only about 60 gal of water in so easier to change a greater % with daily wc (my ageing barrel holds 60 gal + I have another 30 gal)?
3) What size food granules best to order for that size juvies: 1 or 2mm? Thinking of getting Northfin Krill and sone Cichlid formula + some of whatever they have been fed by breeder/retailer.

[Filip]

It sounds like you have everything planed and set very well Poly . I'm looking forward seeing your high quality SG discus swimming in your tank.

At 2.5 inch they will be so tiny and small that you can easily keep them in 40-50 gallons or % of your 100 Gallon tank for the first 2 -3 months to change water more frequent an easily .
About numbers , Yes I would def. start with 12-14 pieces in order to select the best 8-10 for the long run . Be prepared to end up with 2-4 runts out of your batch .

About the food I would Def. start with the smaller grain 1 mm granules -and fed them presoaked and i wouldn't save money to buy a bulk of ther breeders original growing food because they may take some time until they transfer to other food types .

[Jenene]

Wow Paul, this has been quite the work in progress. I had no idea I missed so much of this thread. I thought I had subscribed and will do so now but it was fun catching up on it.

You are so patient and methodical in your planning. I can't wait to see fish in there. You must be really excited knowing how close you finally are.
There is nothing more exciting than getting your discus. I remember the feeling so well. Your time is almost here Paul!

[Paul Sabucchi]

Thanks, it has been a bit of a slow burner but I have plenty of other tanks and a goldfish pond to keep me entertained. On the other hand over the years I have come to appreciate the process of sifting through information to set up a tank avoiding rookie mistakes. This is where forums such as this are invaluable with their cumulated wealth of experience. You are right I am counting the days to when I get my fish but I will have to bid my time as the temperature is going back up to the high 90's. It has been a long hot summer, early June I had some fish overnighted, they were shipped in the afternoon and got here middle of the morning next day but all Dicrossus were poached. Would love to be able to go to Milan and pick the fish myself but a 600 mile roud trip is not feasable. At least the retailer should be reliable. Stocking up on lesser bits and bobs (need to order some Northfin food and some wormers) and I should be all set. As always I am very appreciative of all the goodwill from all the discus keepers on the forum. Ciao e grazie

[Jenene]

You are very smart about taking your time setting up. This forum has taught me so much but more than anything is the lesson of patience. It's not an easy one, but it really pays off in the long run. I am learning. This forum is not only wonderful for discus but also helped me start a reef tank. I found a lot of advice and support here. I gave up on the reef forums. They are much too big and impersonal. Love the friendly atmosphere here.

You are on an amazing journey here. Thank you for letting us join you. (-;

[Paul Sabucchi]

I may try my hand at a reef tank at some point, waiting for more tank raised species to become available over here. Problem is I can't bring myself to swap a setup in a tank, I have to keep the old ones and set up a new one. Currently setting up tank number 7 and planning number 8 (both asia/australia with boraras, honey gourami, rainbowfish, dwarf chain loaches...). I am not really into high-tech aquascaping or strict biotopes, more a middle of the road kind of attitude (maybe just with some effort to theme a tank around a specific continent)

[Jenene]

Sounds like a pretty impressive collection Paul. I will be Googling some of these species to get a better idea of you are keeping. I recognize some of them. You must put a lot of time in on them. I have 3 tanks they keep me pretty busy.

Tank raised marine fish are difficult to find. I have concentrated more on corals that have been farmed or fragged as much as I can. I just have a few fish in there for interest. My pair of Picasso Clowns have big personalities.
I am sure some day you will venture into reef. It is really a fascinating little world in there. A completely different ball game from what I was used to.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Just saw an ad on a Discus Grop, somebody in Bologna is selling 2" red melon juvies (in the photo) from a pair he got from SG (best breeder in Italy), the female is the lower one in the video and the best part is I can get 12 juvies for 100 euros (that is less than 100 bucks), I was not attempting to save money but heck getting the fish I wanted for 1/4 retail price seems to good to pass, hopefully going to collect them Sat 9th. Ciao
https://youtu.be/33Pfi6SNvuw

[Phillydubs]

Wow! What a score man! Must be your lucky day! Will you get to go there and hand pick the ones you want as well??

[Paul Sabucchi]

Actually arranging to go and pick the fish on Sunday 10th. The chap is actually a long standing member of the italian discus forum I frequent and has a good track record of raising decent fish.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Do you think these rolls of wiping cloth are ok to wipe the inside of the tank during wc? Polyester and viscose seem to be the only "ingredients", no obvious smell of chemicals/detergents on them

[Jenene]

I am not sure of the Viskose Paul. I looked it up and it says it is an upholstery fabric. I know things that are use here in the states for upholstery sometimes contain mold inhibitors. Is there any chance you could fins 100% polyester fiber. I would feel safer using that. I may be wrong but would keep looking if it were me.

[Phillydubs]

Why not a good ol fashion paper towell ?

[Ryan925]

I use leftover poret. Works great. Cut it into small sponge sized squares.