Permits for importing Discus to the US?

[Gymrat]

First, let me preface things by saying I used to breed zillions of Angelfish and a handful of Discus in my youth, while attending college and had the good fortune of being able to unload all my fry on a local breeder/wholesaler. Fast forward three plus decades and I retired this year at the age of 55 and bored to death already. Looking to get back into things on a smaller scale, but now profit isn't really my motive. I remember the hard work involved with the industry, and I didn't retire recently only to slave for myself. That being said, I am going to at least get started in a big way, and I'm certainly not wanting to pay retail prices.
As I consider a handful of exporters, I keep reading about permits, licenses, health certificates, for different countries. Only last night did I start doing any sincere research on this. Between my love for a few evening beers, and my rapidly declining reading comprehension skills, I'm more confused than ever before. Do you need permits or any of the above to import tropical fish to the US? I would appreciate any information on this subject.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Pretty sure you have to be licensed with the Dept. of Fish and Wildlife and also do an import application for each shipment. I'm sure they have varying requirements for different countries you might import from. I would give them a call to inquire about the process.

[Second Hand Pat]

Look into what your state requires also.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

discus to the US?

First, let me preface things by saying I used to breed zillions of Angelfish and a handful of Discus in my youth, while attending college and had the good fortune of being able to unload all my fry on a local breeder/wholesaler. Fast forward three plus decades and I retired this year at the age of 55 and bored to death already. Looking to get back into things on a smaller scale, but now profit isn't really my motive. I remember the hard work involved with the industry, and I didn't retire recently only to slave for myself. That being said, I am going to at least get started in a big way, and I'm certainly not wanting to pay retail prices.
As I consider a handful of exporters, I keep reading about permits, licenses, health certificates, for different countries. Only last night did I start doing any sincere research on this. Between my love for a few evening beers, and my rapidly declining reading comprehension skills, I'm more confused than ever before. Do you need permits or any of the above to import tropical fish to the US? I would appreciate any information on this subject.



DON'T do it!:devil: You'll have more fun playing the stock market and may make money at it! :) Seriously without knowing much about your experiences with Discus that the best I can offer you as advice. I typically cringe when new members come on board here with a post like this. Theres so many obstacles in your way in the USA to succeed with Discus on a large commercial scale... and even among those that claim success, they often aren't really that successful or even around that long. Its honestly not a good way to spend your hard saved dollars..but if you try it, I do wish you the best sincerely.


To answer your question...

There is a permit from fish and wildlife that you will need to import. You should also have a business liscence with the state you live in and may need to have a permit there to deal with livestock.

If you are going do this, you should check with your local airports to see if they authorized entry points... if you have to drive 6 hours each way after they have been in boxes 20 + hours it can be a hassle at best or a nightmare at worst. Importers do best close to major airlines.

As for your supply options...you may have some in mind, but many of the best ones only work with a single importer here in the USA or possibly several and these often have substantial import requirements.


I'm not trying to come across as a buzz killer here but I am trying to paint an honest picture from someone thats been in the hobby a few years.

best always,
al

Ps.. Welcome to SimplyDiscus!:)

[DatDiscusDude]

Correct me if I am wrong OP but are you just looking for a good way to buy great quality stock for a breeding program? Or are you looking to become a fish importer/exporter in some way and make a full blown business out of this?

I think we all may be getting mixed up on the terminology here and it is bringing back some mixed answers...

Based on the fact that you are trying to do this for fun and as a past time and you are not looking at this as a profit venture, which I believe you clearly state. I don't see why you would need to have a license if you just want to get great fish to breed and maybe sell locally to clubs, LFS or hobbyist. Unless you really think you could save that much $ by not going through say a sponsor or some established importer/seller who already has all the business end handled.

If thats the case I would say look at the sponsor page here, or maybe even see if you can link up on an order so you can get exactly what you want. To buy the permits and do all that to import say 10,20 even 30 fish. I can't see it being worth the hassle and the investment unless you plan to make some type of full blown business out of it.

[brewmaster15]

Correct me if I am wrong OP but are you just looking for a good way to buy great quality stock for a breeding program? Or are you looking to become a fish importer/exporter in some way and make a full blown business out of this?

I think we all may be getting mixed up on the terminology here and it is bringing back some mixed answers...

Based on the fact that you are trying to do this for fun and as a past time and you are not looking at this as a profit venture, which I believe you clearly state. I don't see why you would need to have a license if you just want to get great fish to breed and maybe sell locally to clubs, LFS or hobbyist. Unless you really think you could save that much $ by not going through say a sponsor or some established importer/seller who already has all the business end handled.

If thats the case I would say look at the sponsor page here, or maybe even see if you can link up on an order so you can get exactly what you want. To buy the permits and do all that to import say 10,20 even 30 fish. I can't see it being worth the hassle and the investment unless you plan to make some type of full blown business out of it.

The questions stem from this...


That being said, I am going to at least get started in a big way, and I'm certainly not wanting to pay retail prices.
As I consider a handful of exporters, I keep reading about permits, licenses, health certificates, for different countries

The ops statements here indicates that he either is looking to work with exporters or does not understand how the market works with Discus having been out of it for 30 plus years. Hence the response geared toward someone that wants to start a hatchery or business of sort ...That is how I read it at least. it may help if the OP clarified their intent, and what they mean by a "big way"

al

[Gymrat]

[QUOTE=brewmaster15;1261728]DON'T do it!:devil: You'll have more fun playing the stock market and may make money at it! :) Seriously without knowing much about your experiences with Discus that the best I can offer you as advice. I typically cringe when new members come on board here with a post like this. Theres so many obstacles in your way in the USA to succeed with Discus on a large commercial scale... and even among those that claim success, they often aren't really that successful or even around that long. Its honestly not a good way to spend your hard saved dollars..but if you try it, I do wish you the best sincerely.


Well said, actually over the years I have been a buzz kill to many of the YouTube videos that promote "Make Big Money Selling Your Tropical Fish." I am acutely aware of what it takes to be a breeder as I was very successful doing so in my youth, well before the internet. Maybe "very successful" was a stretch, but it paid all my bills, tuition, and college partying binges until I graduated and started my career. That being said, I was very fortunate to have had a Chinese immigrant/wholesaler in my neighboring town that was desperate for every fish I could produce! I raised both Angels and Discus artificially and he would take them off my hands shortly after they became free swimming as he could devote more time to feeding them and growing them out much quicker than I could due to my school schedule.
As I mentioned in the above, I am acutely aware of the work that goes into this. I want to dabble in breeding and cross breeding as simply a way to keep me busy in retirement. I've quickly grown to realize through 5 months of retirement you can only hang out at the gym so long, take a few vacations, or go sports fishing so often without being bored. I want and need a hobby to give me something to piddle with a few hours a day. That being said, I also intend to rely upon slave labor. I have a 14 yr old grandson who is as nerdy as I was at his age. I intend to get things up and running, but intend to delegate a lot of the labor to him. He is very internet savvy, and all the Ebay and Aquabid sales will be his responsibility. Of course, with supervision. All profits besides the packaging costs will be his to keep. I'll foot the bill for food, water and utilities. I want to give him a taste of working "somewhat" for himself, while providing myself a hobby that will consume some of my downtime. With regard to wanting to import my initial fish, I'm certain I can save a few bucks, get some quality breeders, and give my grandson a few "grown out" fish to flip while waiting on fry.
With regard to the costs, once again, this will be more about giving me something to do with my downtime. I'm also fortunate that over the years life has treated me well. At the very least, I will save money by not taking vacations every few weeks like I have been. :)

[brewmaster15]

Thats helps give a clearer picture.... can you give us an idea of how many Discus you plan on purchasing to start off. It may not be feasible to buy direct from a quality overseas exporter if the numbers are not sufficient, and as I said in this day, most good exporters have arrangements in place or very large min orders. Also the shipping and box charges could really rack up. You may be better off working with an importer here, give them a list of what you want and see what they can do as price discounts...Our sponsors represent some seriously good exporters, I'd suggest talking with them,

al

[brady]

It seems to me, as a long distance observer, that you would be better off going to one of the sponsors on this site, buy the quantity of fish you have in mind
and go on from there. It would be far more doable and you would be starting off with some good fish without all the hassle.
Just my opinion.
Jay

[Gymrat]

Thats helps give a clearer picture.... can you give us an idea of how many Discus you plan on purchasing to start off. It may not be feasible to buy direct from a quality overseas exporter if the numbers are not sufficient, and as I said in this day, most good exporters have arrangements in place or very large min orders. Also the shipping and box charges could really rack up. You may be better off working with an importer here, give them a list of what you want and see what they can do as price discounts...Our sponsors represent some seriously good exporters, I'd suggest talking with them,

al

Actually just started looking at the sponsors here. I have already looked at some of the box order minimums through exporters from China and Malaysia. The discounted Chinese and Malaysian prices make up for the extra cost of domestic fish along with their UPS and Fed Ex rates. Also talked to a local small importer in Houston (about an hour from me) who said he would consider letting me get in on one of his shipments to defray some of his costs. Later this afternoon I'm going to look into some Florida Breeders. Was going to leave tomorrow morning for a couple of weeks of fishing and bikini observation in Panama City Fl. May postpone my trip for a few more days and see about driving a day further south and perhaps visit some Fl breeders and load up my pickup truck for a nonstop trip back to Texas. Would like to see another nice operation.

[Discus-n00b]

IMO it's just not really practical. This is all not even factoring in getting through Customs. Correct forms, dotted I's, crossed T's and all....it can be a headache. You could have everything in line and if Customs says we'd like to look at the box or we'd like to hold the box they are going to do just that. It is the US Government we are talking about after all. You are at their mercy with this. Especially if you have no prior relationship with the port of entry. What if your fish sit in Customs for 24-36hrs on a random hold? Someone like one of the sponsors who does it monthly or more will usually know the officers/officials, have no issue with paperwork as they could do it in their sleep, and probably clear pretty fast just on the prior relationship alone. Personally speaking, I just don't think it'd be worth the hassle or risk. I would rather buy from someone that does the dirty work and gets quality fish into my hands after they've settled and been QT, it's worth a little extra money to me. It also gives you a point of contact in case something goes wrong, easier to get your fish replaced or a problem solved than trying to reach out across oceans again. Talk to them and tell them what you are after, see what they can do for you. Trying to cut the middle man in this case to save what would probably amount to pennies or potentially nothing in the bottom line for a one time order seems like it could be a recipe for disaster. So my personal advice would be to search out what you'd like, pay retail or try and haggle them down on price (easier with local breeders trying to move stock vs importers), get you some breeding stock and have some fun.

If you were trying to set up an actual flipping operation where you didn't plan to breed or cross or do whatever I'd say hey try it out and try to import, but for a one or limited order situation to get breeding stock I personally wouldn't find it worth it. Seeing other operations is always a good plan, gives you ideas for yourself and who knows something may catch your eye and then you've found your source.

[DatDiscusDude]

What I really want to know is if you are adopting any new grandchildren????

[brewmaster15]

What I really want to know is if you are adopting any new grandchildren????

Lol..


added to what Matt said,
if you do opt to try and import a box or two from China or Malaysia direct you really have no idea what you will get sent. Its hard enough forging a relationship when you are importing 10,000 ...20000 dollars at time. Anyone here that has tried importing as a business will tell you that. You wire over the funds for your small order and chances are you will get low quality, maybe sickly fish depending on who you buy from. You may not even get fish. Assuming all goes well and you get your fish in and they are halfway decent quality....now comes the fun of what pathogens came along for the ride. Casinos would be more fun.

al

[rickmiles]

once again, this will be more about giving me something to do with my downtime.
Downtime? It will be a 7 day a week full time plus job for you, believe me. But it will keep you young exercising all day and night with your Discus.....But you will love it.

Rick Mileski Sr.

[Gymrat]

I sincerely appreciate everyone's input. Even those of you that missed the part about me doing this for a living in my past. :) Just kidding, but again, I know all about the work that goes into breeding the fish, I was more concerned about the permits. Yesterday I spoke to the person from Houston I mentioned earlier that imports Discus to flip online and he has agreed to let me in on his orders at cost. The savings are HUGE when compared to buying domestically, and with his standing relationship with an exporter, I will spare myself all the risk of dealing with an unknown exporter.
I will however, pass on the following link from someone that has experience with importing and permits. I prefer reading the laws myself, but the gentleman gives a pretty good perspective on his experience with this. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article15.html

[tonytheboss1]

Yesterday I spoke to the person from Houston I mentioned earlier that imports Discus to flip online and he has agreed to let me in on his orders at cost. The savings are HUGE when compared to buying domestically, and with his standing relationship with an exporter, I will spare myself all the risk of dealing with an unknown exporter.

:bandana: Good move!! Hitching a ride will definitely save you some headaches. Good luck. "T"

[Filip]

:bandana: Good move!! Hitching a ride will definitely save you some headaches. Good luck. "T"

I dont understand the economy and profit logics behind this, guys . Please care to explain .
If an importer X buys discus from Malasya for i.e. 5 dollars a piece and after all the taxes , permits , transport and hassles he pays , he sells that same discus 20 dollars a piece in States , why would he want to gave up his profits and give them to you for the original price for 5 dollars a piece ?
It just doesnt makes any sense to me .

[Gymrat]

I dont understand the economy and profit logics behind this, guys . Please care to explain .
If an importer X buys discus from Malasya for i.e. 5 dollars a piece and after all the taxes , permits , transport and hassles he pays , he sells that same discus 20 dollars a piece in States , why would he want to gave up his profits and give them to you for the original price for 5 dollars a piece ?
It just doesnt makes any sense to me .

I'll do my best to answer your question as I understand it. The guy has been working with this exporter for a while. The process is no longer a hassle for him. However, I approached him with my offer to help take some of the financial hardship off some of his future orders. You have pretty expensive minimum orders. He essentially buys and flips his fish in the Houston area. I have no idea why he doesn't flip them on Ebay, but it's not my circus, so whatever works for him, more power to him. That being said, I would like to flip a few on Ebay and build up a quality rating, even if the profits aren't really that promising. I know he buys a number of strains and sizes. Let's say he is getting low on smaller fish, or a particular popular strain, but still sitting on hundreds of dollars in larger fish or fish he can't flip as quickly. I could help him meet his minimum box order and he would benefit from the quicker cash flow. Did that help? He seems pretty excited about it. I also agreed I wouldn't infringe on his town's market. Naturally, I would also share in the shipping costs.

[Ryan]

If you'd really like specifics I will write up something later detailing what you need and how orders work.

[CliffsDiscus]

I'll do my best to answer your question as I understand it. The guy has been working with this exporter for a while. The process is no longer a hassle for him. However, I approached him with my offer to help take some of the financial hardship off some of his future orders. You have pretty expensive minimum orders. He essentially buys and flips his fish in the Houston area. I have no idea why he doesn't flip them on Ebay, but it's not my circus, so whatever works for him, more power to him. That being said, I would like to flip a few on Ebay and build up a quality rating, even if the profits aren't really that promising. I know he buys a number of strains and sizes. Let's say he is getting low on smaller fish, or a particular popular strain, but still sitting on hundreds of dollars in larger fish or fish he can't flip as quickly. I could help him meet his minimum box order and he would benefit from the quicker cash flow. Did that help? He seems pretty excited about it. I also agreed I wouldn't infringe on his town's market. Naturally, I would also share in the shipping costs.

Check out Craigslist in SF BayArea, some of the hobbyist are already selling similar to what you
have in mind.

Cliff

[Gymrat]

This guy also sales a lot to individuals. Ha, I would rather go to the post office that have people over to my home. :) Become somewhat troll-ish over the years. :)

[LizStreithorst]

Go for it! You have everything figured out! How could anything go wrong?

[Larry Bugg]

This guy also sales a lot to individuals. Ha, I would rather go to the post office that have people over to my home. :) Become somewhat troll-ish over the years. :)

My favorite part of breeding is having people over to the house. Love to have them even if they don't buy anything.


Go for it! You have everything figured out! How could anything go wrong?

LOL, Liz.

[Gymrat]

Go for it! You have everything figured out! How could anything go wrong?

Even if everything does go wrong, no big deal. Won't be the first time I have ever failed, nor the last. Got my degree in Business Administration, took a corporate job, paid my dues and retired. Also spent most of my free time wheeling and dealing, this is as more about giving me something to do in my downtime than anything else. Still waking up at 4 am, might as well tend to waaaay too many fish. If I bore with the hobby, you never can have too much room to park Harleys. Perhaps I could use the aquarium glass for a green house?
All of the above being said, and pardon my departure to Angels, but I'm stunned at the quality of Angels these days. Many more cool strains than back in my day, but finding decent fins and especially veils is a time consuming proposition. And one of my old favorites, Half Blacks....how sad what has happened to them. These days, it's more like Eighth Black, or Trace Of Black at best. I would be embarrassed to promote some of these angels as Half Black. I can look at Ebay or Aquabid and scroll through pages of Angels and maybe bookmark two or three auctions. Very sad selection.

[Gymrat]

[QUOTE=Larry Bugg;1262328]My favorite part of breeding is having people over to the house. Love to have them even if they don't buy anything.

They wouldn't even be in my home, I built a nice out building on a slab when I had my home built last year. Wish I had anticipated a need for a few floor drains at the time. Sadly, becoming reclusive in my old age. So far I'm not chasing children or small animals off my property yet. :)

[Larry Bugg]

[QUOTE=Larry Bugg;1262328]My favorite part of breeding is having people over to the house. Love to have them even if they don't buy anything.

They wouldn't even be in my home, I built a nice out building on a slab when I had my home built last year. Wish I had anticipated a need for a few floor drains at the time. Sadly, becoming reclusive in my old age. So far I'm not chasing children or small animals off my property yet. :)

This is my fish room. Still consider it being in my home. No bathroom though so my house is open to whoever comes by. I wouldn't be in this hobby if it wasn't something I enjoyed sharing with others.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/20170514_095424_zpsrwg8ily1.jpg (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/Bugman30040/media/20170514_095424_zpsrwg8ily1.jpg.html)