My departure from conventional tank size

[Gymrat]

Perhaps you read my recent post about getting back into Angelfish and Discus breeding. Thirty plus years ago I supported myself through college while doing this. I have recently retired at 55 years old, bored and going to get back into things to occupy my downtime. I am very aware of the hours and money that you pour into this. It isn't at all about profit, more about keeping me busy. That being said, let me throw out the following. I got my start breeding Angels and Discus from a local Chinese Breeder/Wholesaler beginning around 1979. That man came here dirt broke, and did everything on a shoe string budget. He literally built most of 1500 or at best, 2000 square foot facility out of reclaimed lumber, plywood and sheet metal. He and his wife also bred guppies, bettas and runchu outdoors. If we had building codes in that little rural area in those days, it would have never passed inspection. I used to fear being electrocuted in his little place. He almost all but ran me off on my first visit. He was wholesale only, but I managed to talk him into letting me buy some fish. After a while, I kind of won him over and he started encouraging me to breed both Angels and Discus. He was selling me almost ready to breed fish dirt cheap with a promise to sell all my fry to him. Within no time I was supporting myself and putting myself through school doing so.
OK, long introduction short, on to tank size. We both used ten gallon tanks for breeding Angels, fifteen gallon tall tanks for Discus. Twenty nine gallon tanks for growing out fry. We both raised fry artificially. My Angels spawned every 7 days or so. It's been so long ago, but I think the Discus were spawning every two weeks at most. I didn't raise nearly as many Discus as Angels, but I think I am pretty accurate.
Keep in mind, this was way before the information age. In those days, you were lucky to find a book or two in fish stores on Angles and Discus. Maybe a few paragraphs on breeding. Just curious after all these years, why such big tanks for breeding Discus? Not to make light of humane reasons. Yes, I'm sure almost every breed would love a 100 gal to roam around in. But for breeding purposes, is bigger always better? I don't get all these big tanks. My fish weren't deterred at all from breeding in those tanks. I may be a good sport and go with 20 gallons for all. But, I don't get why bigger is better? Flame me if you want, I have thick skin. Just wanna know if anyone else out there is doing this? I could not have been more happy with my production.

[Second Hand Pat]

How large were the discus you bred? I would personally find it hard to put two six inch plus discus in a 15 gallon.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Perhaps you read my recent post about getting back into Angelfish and Discus breeding. Thirty plus years ago I supported myself through college while doing this. I have recently retired at 55 years old, bored and going to get back into things to occupy my downtime. I am very aware of the hours and money that you pour into this. It isn't at all about profit, more about keeping me busy. That being said, let me throw out the following. I got my start breeding Angels and Discus from a local Chinese Breeder/Wholesaler beginning around 1979. That man came here dirt broke, and did everything on a shoe string budget. He literally built most of 1500 or at best, 2000 square foot facility out of reclaimed lumber, plywood and sheet metal. He and his wife also bred guppies, bettas and runchu outdoors. If we had building codes in that little rural area in those days, it would have never passed inspection. I used to fear being electrocuted in his little place. He almost all but ran me off on my first visit. He was wholesale only, but I managed to talk him into letting me buy some fish. After a while, I kind of won him over and he started encouraging me to breed both Angels and Discus. He was selling me almost ready to breed fish dirt cheap with a promise to sell all my fry to him. Within no time I was supporting myself and putting myself through school doing so.
OK, long introduction short, on to tank size. We both used ten gallon tanks for breeding Angels, fifteen gallon tall tanks for Discus. Twenty nine gallon tanks for growing out fry. We both raised fry artificially. My Angels spawned every 7 days or so. It's been so long ago, but I think the Discus were spawning every two weeks at most. I didn't raise nearly as many Discus as Angels, but I think I am pretty accurate.
Keep in mind, this was way before the information age. In those days, you were lucky to find a book or two in fish stores on Angles and Discus. Maybe a few paragraphs on breeding. Just curious after all these years, why such big tanks for breeding Discus? Not to make light of humane reasons. Yes, I'm sure almost every breed would love a 100 gal to roam around in. But for breeding purposes, is bigger always better? I don't get all these big tanks. My fish weren't deterred at all from breeding in those tanks. I may be a good sport and go with 20 gallons for all. But, I don't get why bigger is better? Flame me if you want, I have thick skin. Just wanna know if anyone else out there is doing this? I could not have been more happy with my production.

Are you looking to artificially breed or parent rear?


fifteen gallon tall tanks for Discus. Twenty nine gallon tanks for growing out fry. We both raised fry artificially most use 29 gal to breed and parent raise fry....some use 20 gal breeders. Using a 15 gal tall would work if you want to cram your pair in and they were smallish stock, but the footprint and cost of a standard 29 gal tank is really not much more and gives you more volume for better health. If you did as you say you were, you really werent doing much different different than what most do now except you crammed your pairs into 15 gals water 29 gal. If you go into this again, I would suggest you use the 29 gal breeders unless you work with small pairs... your stock , your call.

AS for something you mentioned several times now. ..".I could not have been more happy with my production" Production? Anyone can produce aka breed Discus and angelfish. Its not rocket science. Its not the breeding thats hard... its the raising quality stock that is. Don't mistake quality with production, Todays market is not what it was 30 years ago. You need to focus on quality not quantity in todays market. More water volume and water changes will help you achieve that.... Back in the timeframe you mentioned, fish could be offloaded small.. and quality was largely inferior at best, culls at worst....thats not the case now for most sellers that want to succeed... they need to focus not on production but quality., IME


This isn't meant as a flame, but the Hobby has moved forward, leaving behind alot of what was done because we found things worked better. You can discard that and pick up where you left off 30 years ago, or try something new that will probably work better. Best of luck either way.
al

[Gymrat]

How large were the discus you bred? I would personally find it hard to put two six inch plus discus in a 15 gallon.
Pat

Easily six. Doubt I had any larger. That gave them around six inches of head room assuming the tanks were an inch shy of being completely full.

[Gymrat]

Are you looking to artificially breed or parent rear?
most use 29 gal to breed and parent raise fry....some use 20 gal breeders. Using a 15 gal tall would work if you want to cram your pair in and they were smallish stock, but the footprint and cost of a standard 29 gal tank is really not much more and gives you more volume for better health. If you did as you say you were, you really werent doing much different different than what most do now except you crammed your pairs into 15 gals water 29 gal. If you go into this again, I would suggest you use the 29 gal breeders unless you work with small pairs... your stock , your call.

AS for something you mentioned several times now. ..".I could not have been more happy with my production" Production? Anyone can produce aka breed Discus and angelfish. Its not rocket science. Its not the breeding thats hard... its the raising quality stock that is. Don't mistake quality with production, Todays market is not what it was 30 years ago. You need to focus on quality not quantity in todays market. More water volume and water changes will help you achieve that.... Back in the timeframe you mentioned, fish could be offloaded small.. and quality was largely inferior at best, culls at worst....thats not the case now for most sellers that want to succeed... they need to focus not on production but quality., IME


This isn't meant as a flame, but the Hobby has moved forward, leaving behind alot of what was done because we found things worked better. You can discard that and pick up where you left off 30 years ago, or try something new that will probably work better. Best of luck either way.
al

No flame taken. Just had what I considered great success. Just wanted to throw it our there and see what others were doing.

[CliffsDiscus]

30 years ago I was selling Wattleys Discus and Schmidt Focke at dime size for ten dollars, now
LFS are paying an average of ten dollars for an
large 2 inch Discus today. Larger tank space
requirement for larger Discus. As for current
wholesale they are paying around $5 for an
2 inch Discus landed or delivered. You can
get an general ideal of how the market works.
The wholesalers buy for $5 and sell to LFS for
$10, the LFS has no limit on the mark up.
You probably seen some of my ads back
then in the tropical fish magazine.

Cliff

[Gymrat]

Always grew the fry out in 29 gallon tanks. With frequent water changes I never had any quality issues, nor can imagine an issue now. The strains have changed over the years, but not the basic biology. I was just curious if anyone else was using smaller breeding tanks.