white patches on Discus (tried pima and melafix)

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Hello all,

I’ll say, I think Melafix & Pimafix (with salt) worked great for me and helped my fish, some of whom were in really bad shape, to fully recover.

New Fish:
I received 5 new Discus from my supplier 21 days ago. Being from the same supplier, these went right in my 180gal which already had 9 Discus. No other fish in tank.

Sickness:
But after 5 days all the fish got cloudy eye and started developing white, almost “furry” patches covering about 30% of their bodies. Fins also became frayed. Note that my WC schedule had previously been a consistent 60% daily WC.

Treatment:
Some symptoms appeared bacterial but I wasn’t sure if the white patches might be fungal, so I treated with both Melafix & Pimafix together (also 1TBspn Salt per 5gal) for 16 days now. Note that I changed 80% water daily and only adding back meds + salt to replace what was taken out during WC. Symptoms began subsiding after 6-8 days of treatment.

Recovery:
All symptoms now subsided. One fish died on second day of treatment but all other fish fully recovered, eating well and appear boisterous and healthy once again.

Questions:
1. I haven’t stopped the meds yet. Should I continue the Melafix & Pimafix (+ salt) treatment for longer or should I stop/wean them off now?

2. My fish appear to thrive with this medication + salt. What would be the drawback of continuing to supplement my water with a lower dosage Melafix & Pimafix? Since Melafix treats bacteria and Pimafix teats fungus why not keep a little of these in my water all the time to minimize these pathogens?

Thanks,
Ken

[brewmaster15]

Hi Ken,
Theres no real gentle way of saying this but the PImaFix and Melafix just smell kinda of Nice. :)They probably didn't do anything beneficial here.. I would not use them further. I know some swear by them but I am not one... I just don't think they are anymore effective that salt@( 1TBspn Salt per 5gal) alone would have been here...IMO.

The real issue was this...



New Fish:
I received 5 new Discus from my supplier 21 days ago. Being from the same supplier, these went right in my 180gal which already had 9 Discus.

Sickness:
But after 5 days all the fish got cloudy eye and started developing white, almost “furry” patches covering about 30% of their bodies. Fins also became frayed


Its never a good idea even if from the same supplier to do this. You have no idea whats changed there between orders. Always Quarantine new fish....no matter who they are from.


Most likely what happened was the typical response that sometimes occurs when discus from different sources meet. They can carry bacteria that coupled with the stress of shipping and mixing just overwhelms the immune system of one fish group or the other. Most of the time the fish get better on their own , sometimes intervention is needed. And by different sources that also means they just had different bacterial fauna on them.

Its very likely the salt you used was the biggest aid in the recovery... But if the fish are recovered, I would stop using it as well.


hth

al

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Kenny, I sort of doubt that the Melafix and Pimafix helped your discus. I think the increased water changes and salt helped the most. When you add additional fish to an existing tank you are increasing the bio-load, especially with discus. The bacteria in your filter needs time to catchup with the added bio-load. I suspect your tank had a mini-cycle (increased ammonia/nitrite) which could have caused your issues.

It is never a good idea to medicate a tank on an ongoing basis, it can harm the organs of the fish over time and allow any pathogens to develop immunity to any medications in the product you are treating with.

I have read several times that Melafix and Pimafix are totally worthless in the treatment of disease.
Pat

ps; what Al said lol.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Hi Al,

Thanks for letting me know. I actually invested/bought quite a bit of this since it seemingly worked so well.

RE: water additives to counteract pathogens: is there anything you could recommend I could add to my water to minimize pathogens? What about that 'Roibos tea' some Discus owners use?

Thanks,
Ken


Hi Ken,
Theres no real gentle way of saying this but the PImaFix and Melafix just smell kinda of Nice. :)They probably didn't do anything beneficial here.. I would not use them further. I know some swear by them but I am not one... I just don't think they are anymore effective that salt@( 1TBspn Salt per 5gal) alone would have been here...IMO.

The real issue was this...


Its never a good idea even if from the same supplier to do this. You have no idea whats changed there between orders. Always Quarantine new fish....no matter who they are from.


Most likely what happened was the typical response that sometimes occurs when discus from different sources meet. They can carry bacteria that coupled with the stress of shipping and mixing just overwhelms the immune system of one fish group or the other. Most of the time the fish get better on their own , sometimes intervention is needed. And by different sources that also means they just had different bacterial fauna on them.

Its very likely the salt you used was the biggest aid in the recovery... But if the fish are recovered, I would stop using it as well.


hth

al

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Hi Pat:

Ok, thanks for writing this. But I guess it does smell kinda nice. :)

Ken


Hi Kenny, I sort of doubt that the Melafix and Pimafix helped your discus. I think the increased water changes and salt helped the most. When you add additional fish to an existing tank you are increasing the bio-load, especially with discus. The bacteria in your filter needs time to catchup with the added bio-load. I suspect your tank had a mini-cycle (increased ammonia/nitrite) which could have caused your issues.

It is never a good idea to medicate a tank on an ongoing basis, it can harm the organs of the fish over time and allow any pathogens to develop immunity to any medications in the product you are treating with.

I have read several times that Melafix and Pimafix are totally worthless in the treatment of disease.
Pat

ps; what Al said lol.

[Second Hand Pat]

You are welcome Kenny. I also second Al that QT is a must even when the fish are from the same source.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Ken,
Tea in general does have some antibiotic properties due to its tannins and acids.. but I don't know how effective it is against pathogens... I would think a good quality UV sterilizer with appropriate flow rates for a 180 gal tank would be a better choice if you are concerned there.

One of the best water "additives" to counteract pathogens though is actually a Subtractive :) Its called water changes. Everytime you do one, your remove pathogens and improve overall water quality which helps the fishes immune system stay in good shape to fight off the remaining pathogens.

Sounds Simple I know, but really, theres nothing better you can do in a proactive fashion to diminish pathogens than sufficient water changes.

al

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Thanks Al,

I'm going to look into the Tea and also the UV Sterilizer. I've actually never minded doing daily WC.

Ken


Ken,
Tea in general does have some antibiotic properties due to its tannins and acids.. but I don't know how effective it is against pathogens... I would think a good quality UV sterilizer with appropriate flow rates for a 180 gal tank would be a better choice if you are concerned there.

One of the best water "additives" to counteract pathogens though is actually a Subtractive :) Its called water changes. Everytime you do one, your remove pathogens and improve overall water quality which helps the fishes immune system stay in good shape to fight off the remaining pathogens.

Sounds Simple I know, but really, theres nothing better you can do in a proactive fashion to diminish pathogens than sufficient water changes.

al

[adrian31@outlook.com]

You are welcome Kenny. I also second Al that QT is a must even when the fish are from the same source.
Pat

Hi Pat:

I guess quarantining the 5 new ones + increased WC after mixing would have reduced the stress and taken care of increased bioload. Only other tank I have is a 55gal in my garage and the last Discus I put there died. I was preparing to give this away to a friend (5" Mercury Blue). My wife keeps various cleaning chemicals in garage and this must have been what killed him - chemicals mixed in water through the air, overnight a healthy 5" fish laying dead flat on the bottom.

I'll need to quarantine future fish, but thankful right now I have a full tank of big, beautiful adult Discus.

Thanks,
Ken

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Hello:

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

I noticed white patches on my fish about two weeks ago. This was about a week after I introduced 5 new Discus from the same Discus breeder to the tank which already had 9 Discus.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

White patches on body and fins, also cloudy eye. All fish had these symptoms, but only one fish still has white patches after treating with salt + WC (and Melafix/Pimafix).

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Salt @ 1Tablespoon per 5gal, 80% WC daily, Melafix & Pimafix. All but one of the fish got well, symptoms disappeared and they started eating again. One fish still showing symptoms, still eating but not as active as others.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

180gal, 13 Discus age unknown, sized 5"-6.5"

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

50% Daily, 80% since sickness

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

Tank has been running ~6months, pool filter sand which doesn't even cover some parts it's so sparse.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

No

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __86F___

- ph __6.5___

- ammonia reading _0___

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __25__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water _X__

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

Yes added 5 new Discus

10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

I feed them 3 cubes bloodworms in the morning, 2 cubes beefheart & 3 cubes FDBW's in the evening.

11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

see below:

NOTE: during the height of the sickness the white patches looked almost raised and somewhat 'furry' in appearance.

white patches on body
110029
in pic below notice the white on the pelvic fin
110030
pic below, white patches on body, ignore the white on gill edges, this is natural
110031

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Hi Al,

Thanks again for the info, I feel a little silly thinking Melafix & Pimafix must be 'wonder drugs' at first after seeing my fishes' progress.

One of my fish is still showing symptoms. I could continue the same treatment I've been doing, but just in case I did a new post in the Emergency Room section. Please let me know what you think.

Ken


Ken,
Tea in general does have some antibiotic properties due to its tannins and acids.. but I don't know how effective it is against pathogens... I would think a good quality UV sterilizer with appropriate flow rates for a 180 gal tank would be a better choice if you are concerned there.

One of the best water "additives" to counteract pathogens though is actually a Subtractive :) Its called water changes. Everytime you do one, your remove pathogens and improve overall water quality which helps the fishes immune system stay in good shape to fight off the remaining pathogens.

Sounds Simple I know, but really, theres nothing better you can do in a proactive fashion to diminish pathogens than sufficient water changes.

al

[brewmaster15]

Ken,
I merged the two threads so all the info is one spot. That one last fish with problems... if you up the concentration of salt in the tank to 1 tablespoon per 1 gal water it will probably knock that out. If you have methylene blue , you could also give that fish a dip in it.

can you get something like this?
http://www.kordon.com/kordon/products/chemical-preventatives-and-treatments-2/methylene-blue#directions-for-use!

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Ken,
I merged the two threads so all the info is one spot. That one last fish with problems... if you up the concentration of salt in the tank to 1 tablespoon per 1 gal water it will probably knock that out. If you have methylene blue , you could also give that fish a dip in it.

can you get something like this?
http://www.kordon.com/kordon/products/chemical-preventatives-and-treatments-2/methylene-blue#directions-for-use!

Thanks Al,

I'll start the higher concentration of salt right away and see if my LPS has Methylene Blue.

Ken

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Hi Al & Pat,

My fish are recovering nicely after the Furan-2 treatment you recommended, thanks for your help.

Ken

[Second Hand Pat]

That is great news Ken :)
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Hi Al & Pat,

My fish are recovering nicely after the Furan-2 treatment you recommended, thanks for your help.

Ken

Very Glad to hear! Thanks for the update Ken.

al