Capillaria?

[Jandiscus]

Sorry for posting this in a separate thread. This is an extension of my recent white feces thread. I have been looking at some comparison pictures on the net and found this at the following website.

http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/diseases-of-farmyard-poultry/part-4-external-and-internal-parasites-of-chickens.aspx

The picture (figure f) looks very similar to what I had found the other day in a fresh piece of feces. I'm attaching both. To me they look very similar. If so, my question would be if Metrozinadole is an effective treatment or should I consider using something else (Lavamisole, Fenbendazole, others). I am currently medicating with Metro (day 4).

Thank you for your guidance.

Best,

JC

[Jandiscus]

Here is a fresh pic taken today at 400x magnification. There are hundreds of these eggs in a tiny little sample taken from the stringy poop. BTW, I used an iphone and took the pic through the eyepiece.

Thanks again,

JC

[Second Hand Pat]

Look at the second page of this article in the SimplyDiscus library. It's close but does not seem exactly the same http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/internal/emaciated_discus.shtml

[Jandiscus]

Thanks Pat! The Metro seems to be working at the moment. Day 5 and there seems to be little to no white poop. Will see how it will be after the full 10 days.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Pat! The Metro seems to be working at the moment. Day 5 and there seems to be little to no white poop. Will see how it will be after the full 10 days.

Hi Jan, metro will many times help with white poop issues but does nothing for Capillaria worms. You will need a dewormer for that. I would suggest if you are considering a dewoming session to wait between meds and rest the fish. I would also suggest PMing Al with your pic and see if he thinks you have worm issues.
Pat

[bluelagoon]

Metro works best on flagellates/protozoan;most appear to have tails,like a sperm would have.This "could" be a secondary infection because of the worms affect on the immune system.Metro in is this case may help.I would treat for worms and if they eat well after treatment and no white poop you should be fine."Just throwing that out there."

[Jandiscus]

Thanks Pat and Mervin! Just you guys responding and offering advice is calming me down already. I will pm Al to see, if he can identify the eggs. Thanks again,

JC

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Pat and Mervin! Just you guys responding and offering advice is calming me down already. I will pm Al to see, if he can identify the eggs. Thanks again,

JC

Jc,just saw this. They may not be capillaria but they definitely look like they could be nematode eggs. I would recommend levamisole.

Hth,
Al

[Jandiscus]

Al,

Thank you so much for your guidance. I have it ordered and expect to receive it within the next few days. Would you recommend for me to continue the metro treatment, or stop now, give them some rest and then start with levamisole?

Best,

JC

[brewmaster15]

How long have you been dosing metro?

[Jandiscus]

Today will be day 6

[brewmaster15]

Jan,
I would complete a course of 10 days. Then let rest 1 week...then levamisole.

Al

[Jandiscus]

Ok perfect! That's exactly what I will be doing. I will provide periodic updates on the progress.

Thanks again!

JC

[Jandiscus]

I now completed the first treatment with Levamisole. Dosage was 3ppm for 48 hours. 95% WC's every day just like before (re-dosing on day 2). All surfaces are being wiped down every day, the filters (not the media) have been sterilized with a bleach solution before the treatment. Fish went off feed which was expected. Some of them have started eating again after 2 days post the treatment. A feces sample collected today shows the presence of worms. They appear to be dead.

I will be applying the second treatment next weekend (7 days after the first one). In the meantime, I am continuing with my 95% wc's and wipe-downs. I am also vacuuming the tanks twice a day. I am attaching a picture showing the worms. There are dozens of them in the sample I took.

Please let me know, if you have any comments or suggestions.

Thank you!!!!

Jan

[brewmaster15]

Looking good so far! Keep up the treatment and updates Jan!. Any sign of more eggs?

al

[Jandiscus]

I have not found any at this point. I'll keep looking.

[brewmaster15]

I have not found any at this point. I'll keep looking.

Thats a good sign then!

al

[Jandiscus]

Fingers crossed! I took a fresh sample of white stool that was literally dropped that second. I caught it before it even touched the ground. It contained the same nematodes but no eggs. I found two tiny wiggly things that were moving around. I'm thinking these might be barely hatched larvae, which should get wiped out by the next treatment. I hope two treatments will break the cycle. I have read that some do a third application.

[Jandiscus]

Two more pics of the presumable nematodes. This is the first time that I actually see "round worms". Everything else before that seemed to be just remnants of the worms. These are from another very fresh sample and did not show any signs of life under the microscope. Note how long one of them is! This is a 40x magnification. Sorry for posting more poop pics. My wife thinks I'm a nerd or geek or both :-)

Cheers,

Jan

[brewmaster15]

Two more pics of the presumable nematodes. This is the first time that I actually see "round worms". Everything else before that seemed to be just remnants of the worms. These are from another very fresh sample and did not show any signs of life under the microscope. Note how long one of them is! This is a 40x magnification. Sorry for posting more poop pics. My wife thinks I'm a nerd or geek or both :-)

Cheers,

Jan


Jan, I'm not sure those are worms.. the first pic especially looks like a contaminant.. it looks like a piece of fiber or thread. Its even got a knot in it!


al

[Jandiscus]

I was wondering about that....lol. Unfortunately I found something today that I don't like at all, especially since the round things (eggs?) look very different from the ones I had seen so far. I'm not sure what those could be....??!! Thanks for your help!!!!!

[brewmaster15]

Got me there... weird, maybe more eggs...not capillaria though. At this point I would finish your 3 courses of dewormer. Then look for worms again. Right now its too soon.

Al

[Jandiscus]

Got me there... weird, maybe more eggs...not capillaria though. At this point I would finish your 3 courses of dewormer. Then look for worms again. Right now its too soon.

Al

Thanks Al! Will do.

[Jandiscus]

I just wanted to provide an update on this thread. Nine days have passed since the second application of Levamisol. The 2 affected fish continued to be sick, excreting white poop which still showed what appeared to be exoskeletons of worms. No eggs though. One of them degraded rapidly just 2 days ago, loosing its color, laying almost flat on the bottom and showing a blackened area right after the abdominal area. I suspect that the nematodes might have migrated further into the body. I culled the fish (3.5") right away. The second fish, while still swimming looked very stunted and has not notably grown since I bought it in March. At this point I decided to cull this one as well, leaving me with hopefully only healthy fish. All others are eating normally at this point and I have not observed any more white feces. I will apply a third doses of Levamisol next week to complete the treatment as suggested. While the end of the story is unfortunate, there is a lot of good learning here.

All of the fish came from the same reputable source, bought all at once. But my first mistake was to cycle the tank with angelfish I had bought from a LFS. I had them 6 weeks or so before I introduced the discus and there was no sign of disease. Still, I must assume that the angels were the source of this parasite. My second mistake was to not quarantine. My third mistake was to not separate the sick fish from the healthy ones and treat them in a hospital tank right away. My final mistake was to keep treating these fish for almost 2 months now, throwing a lot of meds and money at fish that had little chance to catch up on their growth spur.

Thanks to all of you for your advice and help. I'll play it by the book from now on. I have learned so much though from this episode. I have become very efficient and diligent in sterilizing everything that comes into contact with the tanks. Chlorine & iso-propanol are my two new friends. I feel like working in a clean room sometimes :-)