Dad's 85 Gal Bare Bottom Tank

[marktanseng]

Hi Simply Discus!

My name is Mark from Davao City in the Philippines. I've previously kept several discus in a 70 gal planted tank.

Recently my dad asked me to do a whole new setup for him (the tank was in his house). So I had this brand new frameless 85 gal (120 x 45 x 60 cm) tank with stand custom made with the intent of keeping low maintenance fancy goldfish. BUT...I caught the discus bug AGAIN and decided to go for a bare bottom discus tank! ;)

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The tank is currently on a fishless cycle with the ff. specs:

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FILTRATION = 2x Eheim 2217s (filter pads, blue sponges, ceramic rings, and a bag of Purigen once cycled, on a UPS), 1x sponge filter (temporary)

LIGHTING = FROK submersible LED lights (love the color fading effects)

TEMP = 29 C room temp :)


Planning to stock with an assortment of 7 pcs 3.5"discus and 12 rummy nose/cardinal tetras, and possibly a pleco.

Since this is in my dad's house (although I live just behind it :) ) I'm planning this tank to be as LOW MAINTENANCE as possible. I hope some of you can answer some question I have, which are:


1. Can I get away with doing 1x 50% WC weekly? (considering I'm heavily filtered :) )

2. How is my stocking plan?

3. Currently, I'm getting a pH reading of 8.4 on my API test kit. Should I look for ways to lower it?


Any help is greatly appreciated. Will post updates on this journal as the tank progresses...



Thanks!

- Mark

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[Phillydubs]

Nice looking tank! Very clean...

For starters, no, you can't get away with once a week water changes. Unless you want to get away with letting your dad have some oddball shaped looking discus. At 3.5" they are still sub-adult with a tonnn of growing to do...

You want to do 1x a week water changes get 5" + fish and you could do it with light feeding and a big solid water change weekly with some poop sucking inbetween...

Did you try to age the water? Is the ph steady there? I always say, steady is ready, but it needs to be steady, factoring in your WC water and regiment...

[Debow]

Welcome Mark!

Nice start with the bare bottom tank! You are off to a great start.

[marktanseng]

Thanks for the reply Philly!

Trying to weigh the cost-benefit between more expensive adults vs the higher maintenance for juvies and decided to let dad decide (since he is paying for the fish anyway!) :bounce2:

For the meantime, I'm optimizing my maintenance procedure ;) To answer your question, I do age the water (or at the very least, throw in some Prime). Also bought a 15m length of garden hose to be used as both DRAINAGE and RETURN for the aged water from two big buckets outside the patio. Drained water will be used to water the garden outside ;) Yep, just trying to do my share as an environmentally-friendly discus keeper!

:idea: I also learned today that a GRAVEL VAC WITH MANUAL HAND-PUMP isn't much use to create vacuum for a 15m long hose! FORTUNATELY I discovered a better way by accident when I was pumping back water to the tank with a powerhead: After turning on the powerhead, wait for the water to reach the tank, then simply turn off the powerhead and PRESTO, the water flows back to the powerhead with A VACUUM! :guitarist:

Going back to pH, if ever I can't get it lower, would it be best to just chuck in some driftwood?

[marktanseng]

Thanks for the warm welcome Debow! Looking forward to learning from the folks here at Simply ;)

[marktanseng]

TANK UPDATE:

- Installed FROK submersible LED RGB light (loved tinkering with the colors ;)
- FISHLESS CYCLE: Ammonia starting to be processed by filter...now waiting for Nitrite to drop...:bomb: WC 15-20% daily, adding Ammonia every other day...

Posting some pics and a vid for ya'll. Happy discus keeping!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4yPYLCVWCs&feature=youtu.be

[Jenene]

Welcome to the forum Mark!

Your project looks great. That would be a fun thing to do. I love spending other people's money. :D

One thing that "jumped" out at me in the pics is that there is no top? I have heard many stories about people finding their discus on the floor. I am just overly aware since I just lost 3 fish in a short time out of my rimless reef tank. It was heartbreaking. (I do have a lid on my discus and now on my reef as well.) Just a heads up on that.

One thing you may want to point out to your dad is the cost will end up about the same whether he chooses to buy smaller fish and raise them- the food, water, electricity and time will most likely equal the difference of just buying the larger fish. If he were really into maintenance and raising them I would say it's really fun to watch them grow. I grew out eight smaller discus and it was interesting watching them grow and change. If he wants immediate gratification with less work go for the big guys. Just my two cents anyway. :p

Looking forward to seeing this tank stocked! Send pics please. We live for them. :)

[Phillydubs]

Looking good bud! Keep up the slow and steady pace and be patient! Always worse to rush!

You should really try to age your water, or at least test if it makes a difference. You can fill a bucket with an airstone, test from the tap then let it sit 24 hrs and re test, see what the diff is. You don't want there to be a swing. Tossing just some prime in, really isn't going to help if in 24 hrs your ph goes from 8-9, understand?

Also, I hope you relayed the message to pops that bigger fish mean more flexibility with care and maintenance ?

[marktanseng]

One thing that "jumped" out at me in the pics is that there is no top? I have heard many stories about people finding their discus on the floor.

...I grew out eight smaller discus and it was interesting watching them grow and change. If he wants immediate gratification with less work go for the big guys. Just my two cents anyway. :p




Hi Jenene,

Thanks for the heads up! I never considered discus would jump. Would lowering my water level help? Was aiming to have as minimal equipment as possible to create a "floating" effect for the fish ;)

Yeah I would also prefer bigger fish around 4" so they won't have to be fed/cleaned as often. After setup will turnover maintenance to my dad's househelp so I wanted to make it as painless for them as possible lol ;)

Will definitely post pics as things progress. Sorry about the skewed pics. The originals were right side up but turned after I uploaded them. Any tips how to make them "right side up"?

[marktanseng]

You should really try to age your water, or at least test if it makes a difference. You can fill a bucket with an airstone, test from the tap then let it sit 24 hrs and re test, see what the diff is. You don't want there to be a swing. Tossing just some prime in, really isn't going to help if in 24 hrs your ph goes from 8-9, understand?

Also, I hope you relayed the message to pops that bigger fish mean more flexibility with care and maintenance ?


Thank Philly! Will try to do that. Still doing daily 15-20% WCs. My latest pH reading (from tank) is 8.2 though :p KH is 6. Would that be a possible reason why I get high pH levels?

[Jenene]

Hi Jenene,

Thanks for the heads up! I never considered discus would jump. Would lowering my water level help? Was aiming to have as minimal equipment as possible to create a "floating" effect for the fish ;)

Yeah I would also prefer bigger fish around 4" so they won't have to be fed/cleaned as often. After setup will turnover maintenance to my dad's househelp so I wanted to make it as painless for them as possible lol ;)

Will definitely post pics as things progress. Sorry about the skewed pics. The originals were right side up but turned after I uploaded them. Any tips how to make them "right side up"?

Hi Mark,
Lowering the water might help a tiny bit but when you watch them you understand the risk. Many times over their lives they will scuffle for places in the pecking order which involves chasing and flipping around. Also they startle and spook very easily and will often swim up and crash into the sides. Also at night any movement in the room such as a shadow will set them crashing. Many of us use a small night light or use the moonlight setting on our lights to minimize this. Some discus can get serious injuries or die by hitting too hard. If there is no top they could just go up and out. Newer fish will startle more but being smaller the risk would be a bit less that they would go all the way out. For what they cost and how attached we get I thought I should say something. A low profile glass top may not ruin the beautiful effect you are going for. I completely understand. I hated putting a top on my rimless reef, but would never forgive myself if my clowns were the next to go over the edge. I was lucky to have made a small black screen that is barely noticeable on that tank. That kind would definitely show on yours. Hence maybe glass or acrylic if you decided to do it.

Yes, painless water changes will be the best bet for all involved- humans and fish.;)

As far as the sideways pics. I believe the only way is to have a moderator catch it and flip it for you. No worries. We can still enjoy them!

Can't wait to see this evolve. It will be an amazing project that will be enjoyed by many.

[Second Hand Pat]

...

Will definitely post pics as things progress. Sorry about the skewed pics. The originals were right side up but turned after I uploaded them. Any tips how to make them "right side up"?

Hi Mark and welcome to Simply. On your picture question do a small edit (like a crop) prior to uploading and see if that helps. As for discus I would suggest a bit of research on your part (and perhaps your dad) to gear up for the new fish. Here's a start http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?122038-Are-you-new-to-discus-WATCH-THIS-VIDEO!. The video in the first post is a must watch and well worth your time.
Pat

[Filip]

Thank Philly! Will try to do that. Still doing daily 15-20% WCs. My latest pH reading (from tank) is 8.2 though :p KH is 6. Would that be a possible reason why I get high pH levels?

Welcome to the forum Mike .

You got a nice plan for your tank and your new discus journey . The only thing that I would like to correct is your WC regime . Try to manage at least 2 +50% WCs per week and try to find a way of aging your water if you are about to do big % WCs , which I personally think that you should , especially if you choose to go the 1-2 times Wc per week route .

The 2 main problems with big straight tap WCs are microbubbles (dissolved gasses) in tapwater and pH swings (especially downward when tap is less pH than tank water is ) , so try to address and manage them both .

Good luck with your discus Mike , and keep us updated .

[marktanseng]

PHILLY: Tested my 24 hr aged tap water (not aerated) and came up with a 7.8 pH. Would you know why it actually increases to 8.2 once in the tank? Temp of the aged water is 26 C while my tank temp is 29 C if its any help...


JENENE: Duly noted ;) Definitely wouldn't want to lose them that way. Do you keep your discus in a BB tank? Would they be more skittish in that setup than a planted setup?

Luckily I managed to scrounge up a used piece of grey double wall polycarbonate that can be cut to size to cover the tank. Not as clear as acrylic but it might just do the trick


PAT: Thanks for the pic tip and welcome! Yup saw it been lurking the pinned posts for a while hehe its a great video.


FILIP: Thanks for the tips! 2x 50% WCs weekly is doable with aged water. Already have my relatively "painless" WC regime in place (one hose for draining/return from the garden).


THANKS FOR THE REPLIES EVERYONE! :coffee:

[Jenene]

Hey Mark. My discus are in a bare bottom. I learned to appreciate the ease of care. I do have a giant piece of driftwood in there. Every once in awhile I have one clumsy fish that gets a scratch banging against it but they heal almost over night with clean water. Here is a pic from a few months ago.

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[marktanseng]

Here's a pic of my tank cover. I managed to find a piece of used clear acrylic that was just the right depth but not wide enough cover the whole tank top. Would this suffice? :cool:

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[Jenene]

Hey Mark,
That was pretty lucky! The fact that it covers most of the top is great. It would still be possible for one to get out between the gap but the more you cover the less the chance. So I would say absolutely yes- if you could find something a tad longer I would go with that but you have a great start with the one piece.

[marktanseng]

UPDATE: :fish: INCOMING!

- Found a wider polycarbonate cover for my tank (will this be enough?)
- Tank just finished fishless cycle
- 8 Discus arriving tomorrow (praying for a good transit)

SPECIES LIST:

golden checkerboard
Albino turquoise stripe
amana red spot green
Golden leopard
Red map tiger
Super Blue angel (BKx Superblue angeldiamond)
3R royal ruby red
white diamond highbody


All from DXcus Discus Philippines (breeder/exporter)

Any tips on acclimating them to my tank? Leaning toward floating the bags/"plop and drop" ;)

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[Jenene]

Yay! Very exciting! Do you know the Ph of the tank they are coming from? Lots of opinions on this but if they are close I was taught by one of the best to temp acclimate and drop. Might be worth finding out.
The cover should be okay but you can always have the oddball that finds the space in between. Looks great though. Great selection. When do they arrive?

[two utes]

You have done really well to get to where you are, and wish you all the very best with your incoming shipment.
Its good that you were able to find a cover for your tank. Not only does it stop fish from jumping out, but also evaporation, and helps keep some of the heat in, and foreign object out.
The only concern i have about yours though is that the tank does not seam to have any internal supports to hold the cover and you have it resting on the upper edges of the glass, which if knocked, may cause it to fall into your tank. I hope i'm wrong, but that what it looks like from the photos.

[Jenene]

Good catch Joe!

[marktanseng]

TANK UPDATE


DAY 1 (Fish In!) :fish::fish::fish:

- Picked up discus from a early 6am arrival, 2-hour flight
- Upon arrival, performed a welcoming 30% WC (Aged water outside patio Temp = 26C, Tank Temp indoor =29C)
- Floated bags for 10 mins to equalize temp
- Opened bags and poured contents over net and bucket
- Slowly eased each of the 8 fish into their new home
- Fish stayed at the bottom of tank for a few hours (they seemed to be curious of their reflection on the glass) before starting to explore the tank


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DAY 2

- Tried to test feed with a few discus sinking pellets (sourced from the breeder) but fish weren't eating yet
- Did a 25% WC (sucking up the uneaten pellets)
- Fish were not as pale as yesterday, investigating curious family members coming close to the tank :)



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[Jenene]

Congratulations Mark! They look beautiful! You are right they will color up nicely as they settle in.

You are doing a great job with them keeping them very clean. They will repay you many times over with their growth and beauty.

Enjoy them and keep us updated on their progress. I imagine you will be spending lots of time parked in front of that tank!

Great choices as well. A nice colorful bunch!

[Second Hand Pat]

Nice looking crew Mark. :D Be sure to watch the ammonia levels especially the first week. You just added a huge bio-load to the tank and the filters will need time to catch up. Daily 50% water changes will help keep that in check.
Pat

[Phillydubs]

I didn't notice in the beginning that the bottom wasn't painted or covered. This could cause them to constantly be fixated on that or look to be headstadning as they poke at their reflection...

You may want to slip something under the tank next time you do a big WC, some people keep it basic with white paper, or you can get colored paper. I think it will make them happier

[Ryan925]

I didn't notice in the beginning that the bottom wasn't painted or covered. This could cause them to constantly be fixated on that or look to be headstadning as they poke at their reflection...

You may want to slip something under the tank next time you do a big WC, some people keep it basic with white paper, or you can get colored paper. I think it will make them happier

Phil you must be superman! Lifting the tank and sliding something under? Dude I'm calling you next time I need to move some furniture around:)

[marktanseng]

Sorry for the late reply guys! Got my discus on the same day I had a friend set up my 44 Gal nature aquarium, so I was quite busy shuttling back and forth from my house and my dad's making sure everything is settled (what have I gotten myself into...:confused: hahaha)


JENENE: Thanks for the encouragement! Since they're in my dad's house (just beside mine), they're the ones who're parked infront of the tank mostly. I just pop in early morning for a checkup and to do a WC.

PAT: Thanks for the heads up! Sofar I've been doing 30% WCs every other day but hope to step it up as things settle into a routine. Discus are still getting used to the tank and not that interested to feed yet. Didn't feed them the first day. The next I just offered them around 10-15 pcs of pellet, observe, and siphon the uneaten bits the next day to give them time to graze. Hoping they start to feed soon...need to go through the 2 kg of pellets I got from the breeder :vomit:


PHILLY: That was my concern aswell! However my brother pointed out that I see a reflection on the bottom because I was looking at an angle (SIDE of the tank). But looking from the TOP of the tank, there's actually no reflection on the bottom :)

RYAN: It took 4 guys to lift that DRY tank (12mm thick glass), so unless Philly volunteers, it's not gonna be lifted anytime soon! ;)

[marktanseng]

Noticed this white thing hanging on the lower fin of my Royal Ruby Red...should I be concerned? :confused:

Otherwise, this guy/gal is the hungriest and smallest one of the bunch.


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[Ryan925]

Noticed this white thing hanging on the lower fin of my Royal Ruby Red...should I be concerned? :confused:

Otherwise, this guy/gal is the hungriest and smallest one of the bunch.


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Looks potentially like a discus pimple. Usually first sign of water quality issue

[marktanseng]

Looks potentially like a discus pimple. Usually first sign of water quality issue

Whoa. Need to up my WCs then. How does 50% every other day sound?

[Ryan925]

Whoa. Need to up my WCs then. How does 50% every other day sound?

Remind me how much are you doing now, stock level, feeding?

[marktanseng]

Remind me how much are you doing now, stock level, feeding?

30% every other day. 85 Gallons with 8 4" discus. It's only the 6th day I've had them. Fed 10-15 pcs of pellets but they are not so interested to eat yet so I siphon off the uneaten bits after a day.

[Phillydubs]

Phil you must be superman! Lifting the tank and sliding something under? Dude I'm calling you next time I need to move some furniture around:)

Womp womp ....

Cmon class clowns. Isn't there access under that stand? Crawl your booty under there and get to taping.

About the only thing I lift is IPA to lips and even I figured that one out

[Phillydubs]

30% every other day. 85 Gallons with 8 4" discus. It's only the 6th day I've had them. Fed 10-15 pcs of pellets but they are not so interested to eat yet so I siphon off the uneaten bits after a day.

You really want to bang those water changes out. especially early.

I'd be doing dailies or at least 75 or more everyother

[Ryan925]

Womp womp ....

Cmon class clowns. Isn't there access under that stand? Crawl your booty under there and get to taping.

About the only thing I lift is IPA to lips and even I figured that one out

Dude is this a hover tank? I need one Mcfly. The tank bottom doesn't sit on the stand? Philipe you are so futuristic :)

OP yes change more water. Lots more water. 50% per day if not more. In six months you'll be happy you did when those babies are big and round

[Phillydubs]

Mine is exposed w center brace and just a lip...?

[Ryan925]

Mine is exposed w center brace and just a lip...?

Mine is a POS from pet smart. Sits on a flat piece of mdf. My stand build will also have a solid top but a solid top is not required for glass. Acrylic required a solid base since there is no rim

I was just hoping to see a YouTube video of you going Heman and lifting your tank up with one hand and sliding something under with the other!

[Phillydubs]

Lolol you cray....

I'll take a pic under mine tomorrow for you smartass! Lol

[Ryan925]

Lolol you cray....

I'll take a pic under mine tomorrow for you smartass! Lol

I want to see a pic of you lifting the stand while taking a photo at the same time ?

[Phillydubs]

You've seen my pic skills. Now you want me to preform physical labor and take pics.

I'm Getting you this off your Amazon wish list...


https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002FRJBEM/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501222377&sr=8-1&pi=AC_UL420_SR280,420_QL65&keywords=straight+jacket

[Jenene]

Lol! You two are entertaining!
Don't mind the boys...but do change more water please. Also would siphon uneaten food about after 1/2 hour for the clean water you are driving for. You will get a nice routine going and have big healthy fish very soon. ��

[Phillydubs]

I am always up for a challenge!!! I lifted my tank, full of water and painted the bottom!!! You guys are WEAK!!!

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[Phillydubs]

Here she is all painted... Oh and point proven, beyond popular belief (or just Ryan's) not all tanks sit fully on something... As I stated, center bar and a lip, very easy to tape some paper on the under side and VIOLA! See, sometimes my 3rd grade mentality pays off...

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[Ryan925]

I am always up for a challenge!!! I lifted my tank, full of water and painted the bottom!!! You guys are WEAK!!!

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I knew you could do it. I Just wished you had taken the pic when you turned green and ripped your shirt to shreds

[Phillydubs]

That only happens after late night taco bell... and not for the strength reasons.. lololol

[Ryan925]

That only happens after late night taco bell... and not for the strength reasons.. lololol

I said shirt not shorts philipe.

So sorry to the OP for steering this thread down such a terrible path :)

[Debow]

Mark the progress is promising nice work. I agree with upping the water changes too. But on another note I know this is a pretty new tank but have you thought of maybe making this a sumped system and adding a coast to coast overflow box on the back? This tank would look so sleek without all the equipment and returns inside. I really love the size and the rimless, but any how keep up on the WC's until you figure out a stable schedule and zero in on your tank parameters.

[marktanseng]

TANK UPDATE:

Hi SD! Have had my 8 assorted discus for a little more than 2 weeks now. Water parameters good, except maybe for the 8.2 pH level (breeder assured me he was growing them out at pH of 8). Average Tank Temp at 30C. Doing 50% WC every other day with aged water and also feeding just before the WC.

Just feeling a little concerned because only the red discus has been eating. Showed a video of them to the breeder and he also seemed concerned that they were still not eating (I'm only feeding them the pellets I got from the breeder, which is what he fed them with). Tried to introduce some FROZEN BLOODWORMS the other day, but was still just the red who ate (one of the yellows just nibbles). Any suggestions/comments?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTxA8zFk8Wg&feature=youtu.be

[abijitr]

TANK UPDATE:

Hi SD! Have had my 8 assorted discus for a little more than 2 weeks now. Water parameters good, except maybe for the 8.2 pH level (breeder assured me he was growing them out at pH of 8). Average Tank Temp at 30C. Doing 50% WC every other day with aged water and also feeding just before the WC.

Just feeling a little concerned because only the red discus has been eating. Showed a video of them to the breeder and he also seemed concerned that they were still not eating (I'm only feeding them the pellets I got from the breeder, which is what he fed them with). Tried to introduce some FROZEN BLOODWORMS the other day, but was still just the red who ate (one of the yellows just nibbles). Any suggestions/comments?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTxA8zFk8Wg&feature=youtu.be

Here's what has worked for me:
1. Put them on a schedule. I feed 4 times a day first meal is at 7 AM +/- 30 mins followed by one every 5 hours.
2. Take out any leftover food 30 mins after feeding. I used Eheim's vacuum when I feed pellets and granules that sinks. I hand feed FDMW's and take out any left overs right away.
3. To begin with use one type of food consistently, on a set schedule. Once they start eating that introduce a new one. Mine loves FDBW, so I started with that, put them on a schedule for one week and then introduced one new meal every week. As of now, I feed that 3 different types, FDBW, Sera Discus granules and Tetrabits.
4. It's okay to skip meals if they aren't showing interest every now and then. I do that and they are so hungry for the next meal that they knock it off in few mins. Sometimes they eat extra more after skipping a meal.
5. When I approach to feed them, I snap my fingers... that's an indication that I am feeding them and they all come forward. I will post a video separately, it took a week for them to associate snapping to feeding and it's working for me. (Update: couldn't post the video from my phone, will try from my computer later)

[marktanseng]

1. Put them on a schedule. I feed 4 times a day first meal is at 7 AM +/- 30 mins followed by one every 5 hours.

- Wow that's a lot of feeds! What size are your fish?



2. Take out any leftover food 30 mins after feeding. I used Eheim's vacuum when I feed pellets and granules that sinks. I hand feed FDMW's and take out any left overs right away.

- When mine are feeding regularly, I'll start using a manual suction (fuel) pump for leftover cleanups

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3. To begin with use one type of food consistently, on a set schedule. Once they start eating that introduce a new one.

- Sounds like good advice. Will start them off with FBW and the pellets I got from the breeder



4. It's okay to skip meals if they aren't showing interest every now and then. I do that and they are so hungry for the next meal that they knock it off in few mins. Sometimes they eat extra more after skipping a meal.

- Well at the moment they are fed once every other day coinciding with my 50% WC (feed them just before the WC). Once they start showing interest in the food, will ramp up the feedings



5. When I approach to feed them, I snap my fingers... that's an indication that I am feeding them and they all come forward. I will post a video separately, it took a week for them to associate snapping to feeding and it's working for me.

- Had a similar experience with my first foray into discus (shaking the tetrabits can before feeding) Thanks for reminding me! Will do a tapping routine for my feeding (no tapdancing though :D)

[Jenene]

Hey Mark,
Not sure if you have access to this but a lot of us use them to vac our tanks between water changes. I removed the bottom plastic gravel extension and added a tube for more suction. It works great on left over food and debris.

https://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Gravel-Cleaner-Sludge-Extractor/dp/B003C5U2SU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1503346863&sr=8-4&keywords=eheim+quick+vac+pro

[abijitr]

- Wow that's a lot of feeds! What size are your fish?




- When mine are feeding regularly, I'll start using a manual suction (fuel) pump for leftover cleanups

111993




- Sounds like good advice. Will start them off with FBW and the pellets I got from the breeder




- Well at the moment they are fed once every other day coinciding with my 50% WC (feed them just before the WC). Once they start showing interest in the food, will ramp up the feedings




- Had a similar experience with my first foray into discus (shaking the tetrabits can before feeding) Thanks for reminding me! Will do a tapping routine for my feeding (no tapdancing though :D)

Mine are about 3"-4" and yes 4 feeds a day. I feed one cube of FDBW per meal and about similar amount of other food.

[marktanseng]

Hey Mark,
Not sure if you have access to this but a lot of us use them to vac our tanks between water changes. I removed the bottom plastic gravel extension and added a tube for more suction. It works great on left over food and debris.

https://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Gravel-Cleaner-Sludge-Extractor/dp/B003C5U2SU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1503346863&sr=8-4&keywords=eheim+quick+vac+pro


Hi Jenene!

Was trying to go for the lowtech (i.e. non-electric) methods first hehe. Downside of the manual siphon would be the need for a bucket to catch the water. Will try that first then see how things go ;) Thanks!