Lump with wound

[undel]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?


Several days ago a lump with a small white head appeared on one of my discus. I've seen "pimples" before and usually do a gentle scrap to remove them. Always healed right up before. However, I've never seen one with a lump before. I did the usual scrap and put him back. However, it's starting to look worrisome to me. It's been two days since the scrape and they usually heal by then. In fact it looks wider and redder now!

Here's a video showing the little guy in action. He's still lively, but I worry that could change. If I'm to do something about this beyond water changes, I should do it while he's still got some energy reserves!

https://youtu.be/N8ysG3Z0zZo


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


Lump in bottom/center of the left side. Wound in center of lump. Also, one smaller "pimple" on one of the spines of his lower fin has appeared. Dark/faded color (may be a result of substrate... but may not?). Possibly hiding a bit more, but still comes out when he sees me and begs for food. Eyes are a bit cloudy.
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3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.



Scraped off head. Doing more watcher changes (1 every day instead of one on M/W/F). Fish is still in the main tank. I added 1 tablespoon of salt per 10 gallons to the water yesterday. Temperature is normal, and he's still in the main tank.

I wanted advice before throwing him into a hospital tank or doing medications.
If greater water changes can solve this without the stress of medications,
I'm all for it. However, I do have unopened boxes of Kanaplex, Metroplex, Prazipro, Paraguard, and API general cure on hand. I just want a concensus if any of that would even be useful, and if so, which is one is the most likely magic bullet.






4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.


165 gallons, 8 months old, 13 5-7 inch discus. 12 corycats, 2 bristlenose pleco, 15 cardinal tetras, 8 pristella tetras, 12 nerite snails.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).


Previous to this, 50% M/W/F. Now 50% every day while he's sick.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?


About 7-8 months. It's got black Ecocomplete Substrate that is 1.5 inches deep. (Used to be deeper. Was a planted tank, but I'm transitioning it. All plants removed, and every week I scoop out a small amount of substrate with a ladle after doing a vaccuum of the top 1/2 inch of substrate. Possibility I stirred up some nasties?

Also possibly related: I was running two cannister filters on the 165. One was a fluval FX5, the other was an aquatop with a UV sterilizer. The one with the sterilizer backed water up into the motor a week ago, so I removed it while I order replacement seals.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.


I do not. During the winter I did because there was a PH swing, but during the summer it's not been necessary.

8. Parameters and water source;



- temp 81.8-82.2 F

- ph 6.5

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 10-20

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.


- well water 0%

- municipal water 100%

- RO water 0%


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.


No, however I have noticed that the non-striped nerites have all laid what I assume to be eggs on eachother's shells. Maybe it's a parasite? I am almost certain they're non-viable eggs though.
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10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.


I feed the 13 discus 5 cubes of freeze dried blackworms every day, as well as an additional 3 cubes of Hans Frozen Beefheart on days when I'm going ot do a water change. (So they get 5 cubes of blackworms every day, and 3 additional cubes of beefheart on M/W/F)

[Ryan925]

Wow I have never seen that on the nerite shells. I know they like to lay eggs EVERYWHERE though.

The fish may be dark from the sound but also the black eco really darkens them at all. I swapped mine out for that reason.

Hopefully someone will chime in soon on good course of action for that wound. Lots of clean water is a good start

[Kyla]

I would be very wary about removing the deep substrate while the fish are in the tank. I killed almost an entire tank of discus overnight when I dug up a small area of my deep substrate... I am not comfortable recommending treatment, but the eyes def do look cloudy.

[Ryan925]

I would be very wary about removing the deep substrate while the fish are in the tank. I killed almost an entire tank of discus overnight when I dug up a small area of my deep substrate... I am not comfortable recommending treatment, but the eyes def do look cloudy.

I did notice cloudy eye too. Could be related to water quality with the eco substrate. I deep vacd mine every other day thinking it was clean but when I removed it it was nasty.

As Kyla suggested I moved my fish to a holding container while performing the swap

[undel]

I would be very wary about removing the deep substrate while the fish are in the tank. I killed almost an entire tank of discus overnight when I dug up a small area of my deep substrate... I am not comfortable recommending treatment, but the eyes def do look cloudy.

I'm thinking your recommendation is wise. I'm going to cease my ladle method and will remove the gravel all in one go sometime in the future, after everyone's recovered. (with fish in another tank!)



Any recommendations for what I should do now are welcome. I',m continueing with daily water changes and light salt in the water. If he should be quarantined or medicated, let me know!

I'm afraid to raise the temperature if this is bacterial. I have no idea what type of problem this is. parasite/fungal/bacterial/just a cyst?

[jmf3460]

1. The white dots are indeed nerite eggs. They will be all over your tank before you know it, but if you don't mind the look of them then they are not an issue
2. The fish with the lump does look like it needs some medications. Do you have a quarantine tank? Could you scoop the fish out and apply an antibiotic to the lump? If you have any betadine or antibacterial ointment in the house it will help. I would do this once a day for 3 days and see if you see an improvement.
3. His eye does look cloudy, also another indicator of a bacterial infection. This being said, I would treat this fish in the water as well, using Furan 2. This is a common medication that API makes and is sold at local pet stores and online as well. The furan will help with the eye cloud and the wound infection. It may be best if you can isolate this fish in a hospital tank and treat him alone. But if you are seeing other fish with cloudy eye, you may want to treat your whole tank.
4. DO NOT pull out all your substrate with the fish in the tank. You need to take the fish out and store them somewhere separate, scoop out your substrate, let the tank sit with filters on full blast for a couple days while doing large daily water changes, then add fish back once all clouding has gone and you have changed or cleaned your filter pads.

[undel]

Thank you for the advice. I was looking at it this morning and while he's still quite lively, the wound over the lump seems to be widening (the lump is not getting larger, just the area on it that looks raw.)

I'll get my 29 gallon hospital tank set up again. I do not have an ointment to apply directly to the wound, but I can get some Furan 2.

[undel]

He stopped eating today so I don't think he was improving with just clean water. Hopefully the meds will help! The 29 gallon barebottom hospital tank is now set up with him inside. I put in the Furan 2 in the water according to the box and applied neosporin to the wound. However, the neosporin did not stick well, so I'm not sure that it did much.


Because this isn't a cycled tank I'm going to need to do daily water changes to keep it from turning toxic. I assume I add furan 2 in the correct proportion to the amount of water removed each day rather than following the box's instructions? (ie: if I remove 20 gallons, I'd add in 2 packets of Furan 2, which instructs to dose at one packet per 10 gallons)

[jmf3460]

He stopped eating today so I don't think he was improving with just clean water. Hopefully the meds will help! The 29 gallon barebottom hospital tank is now set up with him inside. I put in the Furan 2 in the water according to the box and applied neosporin to the wound. However, the neosporin did not stick well, so I'm not sure that it did much.


Because this isn't a cycled tank I'm going to need to do daily water changes to keep it from turning toxic. I assume I add furan 2 in the correct proportion to the amount of water removed each day rather than following the box's instructions? (ie: if I remove 20 gallons, I'd add in 2 packets of Furan 2, which instructs to dose at one packet per 10 gallons)

This is correct Undel, add back the measurement needed for the amount of water you remove. It would be best if you could do 100% water changes daily and add back full doses. You don't want the added stress of ammonia to make this situation worse so 100% water changes daily or twice daily will be best. Make sure you aren't running carbon on this hospital tank.

[undel]

This is correct Undel, add back the measurement needed for the amount of water you remove. It would be best if you could do 100% water changes daily and add back full doses. You don't want the added stress of ammonia to make this situation worse so 100% water changes daily or twice daily will be best. Make sure you aren't running carbon on this hospital tank.

My tank is lower than my utility sink, so I can only get all but the last 4 inches of water out at at time with the python. I removed 80% of the water, filled it back up with 82 degree clean water + prime, then removed 80% a second time immediately after and readded clean water and prime again. Added 3 packets Furan 2 and offered him some food. No carbon is in the filter. I'm just running it with mechanical filtration.

I took some a photo of what he looks like now. The dark coloring was a result of the substrate. Once in the hospital tank, he returned to normal colors, but is showing his bars. I think the wound is looking a little better than yesterday, but still worse than the first post.
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Here is his poo. Not sure if it's supposed to look like this or not. I only ever really saw the "chunky" poo against the substrate easily, so I can't tell if this is normal. His diet was primarily freeze dried blackworms with a touch of beefheart before he stopped eating, which was very recent. (Spot the cat!)

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[jmf3460]

i think his poo looks normal undel. I am very proud of you for doing two huge water changes in a row. keep up with the furan 2 and the large daily water changes. he is showing bar but I think he looks promising. if you can, when you do the large water change, scoop him out, dab the wound with a paper towel to dry the area off a bit, then add your Neosporin as best you can, it will help to kill bacteria on the surface. but if you cant do this or don't want to stress him more, then I think he will be fine with just the furan 2.

good luck and good job

[Ryan925]

That's a really nice looking fish hope it recovers

[undel]

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Proceeding with treatment. I'm a bit concerned that this may be a parasite, simply because of how it looks in the water. HOwever, I'm having the toughest time getting a photo of the darned thing. He likes to hang out in the area of the tank where another tank casts reflections and the camera isn't focusing.

Basically, the wound is 3 dimensional, and some of the lighter bits of the wound seem to be poking out, almost like a pair of worms. However, it could just be ragged flesh? When I took him out ot put neosporin on it, the wound was more or less flat.

If this still looks like bacteria, then all is well. But if it looks suspicious, let me know. I do have prazipro and paraguard on-hand, but I don't want to overdo the medication for the wrong problem!

[jmf3460]

still just looks like an infection to me Undel. and it does look to be less red and irritated. stay the course

[undel]

Yesterday I ran out of Furan 2 and will not be able to get up to the store until tomorrow.

The fish was looking about the same to me.

I didn't want to get him off antibiotics, so I drained 80% of the water twice to remove as much furan as possible from the water. Then I added the braod spectrum Paraguard at the recommended dosage to the water, figuring that a change in meds was better than going no meds at all or leaving him in the Furan + ammonia water.

However, when I came down to check on him today, his slime coat almost looks like it's cracking. It only shows up in certain light. He also has a new zit near his mouth and his wound looks worse.

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Do you think the new meds did this and I should get them out, or do you think not having strong enough meds (furan) is the cause of the outbreak? Or something else?





Edit: Update:
When I took him out to apply neosporin, I saw that there were three "jelly" like clear blobs on his pectoral fin that were three dimensional. I gently used my cleaned nail to scrap them off. They came off without damaging the fin, and were "poppable" once removed. I don't have a microscope. I saw these "jellies" a couple of months ago as well, and removed them. I suspect they are a parasite, but don't know if they're related to his wound at all.

The wound itself looks larger because there's now a sac of fluid in the bottom making the wound bulge out more.

Upon closer inspection, the cracking appears only in certain light, and to my untrained eye appears to only affect the slime coat, as I see unbroken scales underneath.

Water is still at 82 degrees with daily 80% x2 back-to-back water changes.

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[undel]

The second day with paraguard in the tank and he looked even more grim.

However, after a day with the furan 2 in the water, he has less cracks in his slime coat and that odd liquid-filled "sac" that developed on the lesion is gone. He's looking better. The lesion is looking better. I've got 3 more packs of furan-2 coming from Amazon Prime, so there should be no more lapses in medication coverage.



He now has a companion in the hospital tank. My heckel cross had scraped itself against the driftwood a week ago, which normally heals very quickly with clean water. However, since his scrape he started getting pimples, his eyes have a touch of cloud, and his ventral fins got fuzzy on the end, so I think he could benefit from the meds as well. He is not nearly as severe as the turq was. I'm convinced now that this is all due to me stirring up some nasties in my genius "Remove 3 inches of planted substrate while the fish are still in there" plan. These two fish are affected while the others are not because they are the most prone to spooking of my school, and probably scraped against the driftwood, letting the nasties get into the wounds. The heckel is still eating well, and because he eats the blackworms, he's gotten the turq to start pecking at the food as well (not really eating, but he's at least intrigued again.) It may be me humanizing them, but I feel the turq is happy to have a companion. He's no longer staying in one corner and the two fish are always close together in the tank.



I'm back to being optimistic about everyone's chances. The paraguard downturn was upsetting. I'm thinking that the paraguard was severely irritating my fish, and caused him to shed some slime coat and the wound to act up. With 20/20 hindsight, I'm thinking that the fish would have been better served during the lack of furan-2 by just having his tank be fresh, clean water. Live and Learn. :-/

[jmf3460]

stay the course with the furan 2 Undel, throw the paraguard in a cabinet and don't use it anymore for this scenario. glad to hear he's looking up

[undel]

An update on the little guy.

The good:
His major lesion seems to have flattened, his slime coat issue is resolved, and he's eating again.. I FINALLY got a good picture of that white stuff I thought was a worm inside the major lesion. Does this look like normal healing?

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The bad:
He has a new bump forming above his head, near his top fin. (see photo). He also has several small hole-in-the-head marks. The former I believe was brewing for the past week or so, before he started getting better, but it's still upsetting that a new lesion could open up. If he keeps getting new lesions I don't want him to suffer. The HITH I'm not sure what to think. To be fair, I forgot about him down in the basement yesterday, so he went 40 hours without a water change, so I wonder if him being weak from lesions + water quality just made hole in the head pop up as a side effect. Poor little guy doesn't need EXTRA problems!

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I will continue with Furan-2 and daily water changes unless I hear otherwise. I have erythromycin on hand if it's better to try another antibiotic for the lesions.

[undel]

As an update, the lump on his head has started to erupt.

I am continuing with the Furan-2 in the water and and large once-daily water changes, but I don't know that it's working.

The neosporin does not stick well, even with drying out the wounds with a paper towel, so I stopped. Tonight I picked up betadine and dribbled a little bit of that into each of the wounds, then let him sit out of the water like that for about a minute while I used a plastic syringe to flow aquarium water over his gills. Put him back in and I feel like it washed right off.

He's still a fat, energetic fish. But he's now got two ulcers and half a dozen hole-in-the-head sites. I don't know that his first ulcer even looks any better than when it started! It's a little flatter, but that's about it.

He also has really really fluffy grey poop.





http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article25.html

This site seems to indicate that it could be a gram-negative bacteria, which would fit with the possible stirring up of nasties I did with my substrate shenanigans. Should I switch to something like tetracycline, which I read can treat both gram negative and gram positive bacteria? (though furan-2 also indicates that it'll treat both types. Should I have seen results by now?)

[undel]

It's been over 3 weeks since I began treating him. He's about the same as last update.

The main sore on the bottom doesn't seem to be closing, but doesn't seem to be getting larger.
The bump on his head has a "head" but didn't erupt beyond that. Started two weeks ago.
Small hole in the head pocks, but they aren't growing. Started a week and a half ago.
Fluffy, fluffy poop. Clouds. Started a week ago.
Eyes are clear, and have been for two weeks.

He's being treated with furan2 and betadine (every other day on the latter, since I have to remove him from the water.)



He's not improving, but not getting worse. Should I continue with treatment as-is or try a different antibiotic? The fact that his poop is fluffy clouds worries me that he's still got an active bacterial infection.

I think he is losing strength, or he's getting used to me taking him out every day. He doesn't struggle when I remove him anymore.

[undel]

Update on the fish: Still kickin'.

He has not gotten any more bumps. The major bump on his lower body is still quite visible, but I believe it's finally healing. Why it's taken so long is that he actually lost a lot healthy, viable flesh to the bump, and it's taking a while to die off and fill in. I don't know if i he's ever going to regrow scales on it, but there's some incredibly thin patterning indication appearing, so maybe it's possible?

He's gotten eye cloud again, but no more nodules anywhere on the body and no new holes in his fins. I believe it's a water quality issue at this point, as the hospital tank is not a cycled tank. He's been living in Furan-2 for over a month, so it has to the be the water or bacteria that doesn't care about Furan.

I've moved him into a 72 gallon planted tank that has no other fish in it aside from a healthy colony of malaysian trumpet snails, and put some cycled filter media into it from my main discus tank. He won't have any meds, but the water there should be a lot cleaner between the volume, he fact that he's going to have some cycled media, and I also threw some purigen into the filter for good measure.

I'll see how he does in there before adding him back to the main tank. I'd like that eye clear and bump closed up before putting him back in the 165 with my other discus. Cautiously optimistic!

[White Worm]

I would find some betadine and use that. Apply directly to the wound and keep it away from the eyes and gills.

[RogueDiscus]

Al has also recommended swabbing external lesions with hydrogen peroxide, if that seems appropriate.

[undel]

Thanks for the advice so far. I did a swabbing regimen with betadine on the main wound previously on recommendation from jmf3460.

I had to leave for a family vacation for 8 days. (I'm back) Leaving him in the hospital tank would have been a death sentence, as it had no biofiltration and he would have made the water toxic in short order. I put him into the 72 gallon planted since it was isolated from everything else but the plants and MTS along with established filter media from the main discus tank. When I came back PH in the planted tank was 7.0, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 20-ish, so it seemed okay... but he's not looking okay.

When I got back, his main ulcer that has been the focus of this thread seems to have healed even more. However, the pinpoint holes and nicks that were present before I left (but not doing anything) have widened. These are flat defects, not mountains like his original wound. On the fins they punch holes through. On the sides, they remove color from the scales, it may be exposed flesh, but there's no "topography" to it. His eye is slightly cloudy again. It's faint, but I was on the lookout for it.

He's back in the hospital tank with a 100% water change. The sides of my tank are a dirty, so I have circled what are actual defects so they can be differentiated from the water change bubbles and the water splashes on the side. The LARGE circle is his healing ulcer, which I think is improving.
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He's been in 82 degree water this entire time. Because his infection was likely bacterial, I read that you're not supposed to keep higher temperatures or it'll speed things up. Is this a good route, or should he be in higher temperatures to stimulate his immune system?

I'm unsure if what's appearing now is a continuation of what he had, or water quality issues. The hospital tank is not forgiving due to having no biofiltration at all, nor was the planted "vacation" tank an ideal scenario. I want to be frank that my husbandry while treating him has not been perfect. I did miss a few daily water changes (not consecutively) on the hospital tank over the past month. I'm not proud of this fact, but if it's a contributing factor to what happened now, it's worth mentioning. I have read that holes in the fins such as this are a water quality issue.

If this is all water quality, I can keep at it with alarms set so I have less chance of flubbing and forgetting a daily water change. Alarms are a good practice anyway. However, if its something that needs medication, I'll need some advice on how to treat. I don't want to use the wrong thing and stress the fish out with meds that will do him no good.

[undel]

I've been keeping up with 100% water changes every 24 hours on the nose in the hospital tank. Alarm is working great. His fins are looking a touch better and his main ulcer is still on the mend. However, he's got a new eruption near his head. I swabbed it with betadine.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is parasitic. :-/

Any advice appreciated.

[jmf3460]

goodness these lesions are coming and going quickly. I think this is more of an internal parasite now. do you have access to metronidazole which is an internal parasitic medication, also levamisole is another type of internal parasite medication that may do some good in this situation. simple water changes and furan 2 are not seeming to help after this long. to be honest I am surprised he has stayed with it this amount of time so far.

[jmf3460]

can you get metro or levamisole?

check with angelsplus.com

[undel]

Sorry, I didn't see that someone had posted!

History of the fish up until now:

Fish had lesion appear in bottom of fin along with cloudy eyes.
Moved to hospital tank.
Treated with 82 degree water and furan-2 for a month.
Initially did neosporin swabs on lesion alongside furan treatment, but switched to every other day betadine swabs.
Fish briefly had a tank-mate, a heckle with a couple small holes in the head. Heckle recovered quickly, and is back in the main tank, looking great!
Went on vacation. Moved fish to 72 planted tank with cycled media. Only other tankmates are trumpet snails in the gravel. NO MEDICATION
Fish stayed in 72 gallon for 8 days. When I returned, water parameters were 7.0 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites , 10-20 nitrates
Came back from vacation to pinpoint circular holes in fins.
Put back into hospital tank. Treated for a couple of days with clean water, using an alarm to ensure no misses.
New lesion appeared on head - behind the eye between gill plates.
Swabbed lesion daily with betadine.
Treatment with prazipro and sulfaplex for 7 days to help if this was parasitic, not knowing what else to do.
During the treatment, I discovered what is probably a contributing source of my woes. The filter (which has no media in it and is basically just a water circulator) was full of brown slime. Since it didn't have media in it, I didn't think to clean it. It was a mess.
He's been in plain, clear water for 3 days with water changes on the nose every 24 hours.
The holes in his fins are closing. His color is really good. The original lesion is not only filling in, but starting to scale over! The new lesion near his head still a problem, but possibly healing.


Which brings us to today-

Today while doing his betadine swab, I dropped him 4 feet onto a concrete floor. Apparently he's feeling better, because I didn't expect him to struggle and wasn't holding him as tightly as I could have. Feeling like an idiot.
Fish is in clean with 5 tablespoons salt added to the 29 gallon.



Pretty mad at myself. If he was on the mend, the drop is going to create additional stress, which makes him vulnerable again.






can you get metro or levamisole?

check with angelsplus.com

@jmf3460 Thank you for the recommendations. I have both of these medications on-hand. Do you think I should still give it a try, or let him rest? If so, which medication do you recommend over the other?

Unless I hear instructions otherwise, I'm going to let him rest and recover from his fall in clean water w small amount of salt for another 3 days. I'm also raising temperature to 85 degrees to try and stimulate his appetite again. If for some reason he starts eating again or the lesion on his head is clearly closing, I'll continue to do nothing but water changes. But if any new lesions appear, I'm going to go for metroplex treatment.

[jmf3460]

i would begin with the levamisole to be honest. Metro is a milder treatment, usually used to treat hex.

[undel]

Thank you for the advice. His rest is going well, and he doesn't seem to have any new lesions. His main lesion is still closing, as are the ones on his fins. The one on his face is still worrisome, but seems to be doing the ugly-healing pattern of the first, in that it inflated, then shrank. He doesn't seem to have suffered for being dropped.

However, he is still not eating, and I discovered some translucent, whitish long feces. Dosing at 3grams levamisole for the 29 gallon tank. Leaving it in for 24 hours with lights off, per the instructions on loaches.com. I'll do his nightly water change after that, which should get it out of the water column.

The treatment says it needs to be repeated in 3 weeks to get any eggs leftover.


I was reading on loaches.com, and symptoms of internal parasites can include:

White/translucent stringy feces
Inflammation
External lumps or nodules
Necrosis (dead or dying tissue)
Cysts
Granulomas (which are a reaction by immune cells trying to wall off some foreign body, such as a worm)


Which sounds pretty similar to what's happening!

[jmf3460]

I think if he has any of these parasites, the levamisole will help

[jmf3460]

you may want to add an air stone to the tank while treating with levamisole, its a harsher medication and extra oxygen can never hurt

[undel]

So as an update, I did the Levamisole treatment for 24 hours on the 4th. He turned greyish and shed his slime coat during the treatment. 2 days after it was removed from the water he's now back to his original coloring with slime coat intact. We'll see if this nips the problem in the bud!

Meanwhile, holes in fins still closing, main lesion still closing, lesion on gills PROBABLY healing, but it looks like a mess, much like his original lesion did. I'm gently scooping him up while in the aquarium, exposing just his bad side, dabbing the wound a bit dryer, and swabbing with betadine. No reason to take him out of the tank and risk dropping him again, and this is probably better for retaining his slime coat. At this point he's either weaker, or he's just used to me scooping him up, as he's pretty docile during the entire fiasco.

Tank has been runnign at 84 degrees. No meds in water, with daily water changes 75%. Eyes are clear, and I don't see signs of NEW lesions. Still not eating. Color is good, but bars are up all the time.

[jmf3460]

You are doing a great job Undel. Keep up the good work, we're all cheering for this guy. Are you planning a second 24 hour levamisole treatment? Doesn't it say to do three treatments?

[undel]

As an update, he's looking great. Thank you so much for the advice. I feel like I've learned a lot from this experience. The original wound is scaling over nicely (I can still tell where it was) and the gill wound is on-the-mend for-sure. The holes in his fins are all closed or nearly closed, and no further wounds are appearing. I think that parasites were the underlying cause of everything. I'm still in shock that he's looking so great. Discus (at least 5" adults with some reserves) are pretty darned hardy, all things considered!

He's due for his second round of levamisole.



165 gallon: substrate switch!
I moved all of his friends to the 72 gallon spare tank today and removed all of that substrate from the main 165. I apparently kept the substrate pretty tidy. There was only the finest dusting of mulm underneath! I did a 100% change on the tank while I switched out the substrate. I switched from 2 inches deep of the black ecocomplete to 1/2 inch of white pool filter sand. I'm excited to see what this will do for everyone's colors! I took a before picture, because I'll bet it'll be dramatic.

I'm going to let the sand switch stand for 24 hours empty, then do a 90% water change, then 24 hours later I'm moving everyone (including our patient) back to the main tank. I'll post the before/after for colors, and also to show you how the patient is looking in his new home. I do think he'll have scars, but I'm just so pleased that things are mending!

[White Worm]

Great news. There isn't enough positive posts like this after treatment. Post some pics.

[jmf3460]

So glad to hear Undel, this fish was definitely worth saving, and in my opinion the learning experience is worth it too. pictures??

[Ryan925]

As an update, he's looking great. Thank you so much for the advice. I feel like I've learned a lot from this experience. The original wound is scaling over nicely (I can still tell where it was) and the gill wound is on-the-mend for-sure. The holes in his fins are all closed or nearly closed, and no further wounds are appearing. I think that parasites were the underlying cause of everything. I'm still in shock that he's looking so great. Discus (at least 5" adults with some reserves) are pretty darned hardy, all things considered!

He's due for his second round of levamisole.



165 gallon: substrate switch!
I moved all of his friends to the 72 gallon spare tank today and removed all of that substrate from the main 165. I apparently kept the substrate pretty tidy. There was only the finest dusting of mulm underneath! I did a 100% change on the tank while I switched out the substrate. I switched from 2 inches deep of the black ecocomplete to 1/2 inch of white pool filter sand. I'm excited to see what this will do for everyone's colors! I took a before picture, because I'll bet it'll be dramatic.

I'm going to let the sand switch stand for 24 hours empty, then do a 90% water change, then 24 hours later I'm moving everyone (including our patient) back to the main tank. I'll post the before/after for colors, and also to show you how the patient is looking in his new home. I do think he'll have scars, but I'm just so pleased that things are mending!

You will be quite happy you did. I swapped 120# of black eco for 50# of pfs in my 75. What a difference it made with the fish

[undel]

Here's the poor little fella, back in the main tank. I probably shouldn't have said that he looks "great". He does not look great, but he's a fighter!

Despite how ragged he looks, I'm hopeful because things are on the mend. All of these issues present are no longer spreading or worsening, and are healing up. Here's the rundown:


He's been in treatment since July.
Since that time, he's eaten very little.
While he has some severe hole in the head going on, the ones patch his gill are actually the healing of a lesion much like the one that erupted after the first post. The gill lesion looks SO MUCH BETTER. The hole in the head above his eye I suspect developed because he hasn't eaten much (if at all) since July and he's nutritionally deficient.
You can see his scar where his lower fin meets his body, right in the center. It's nearly fully scaled over!
There are still pinpoint circles in his fins, but these are no longer holes. They are filling in. :)
He used to have a smoother profile, but he's now got a nose bump. I read this can happen after a major sickness and will likely be like this for the rest of this life. :(
He's my thinnest fish now. He's not razor thin, but he's not the fleshed out happy fat discus the rest of my tank are. Hoping now that he's eating again he'll flesh out and the HITH will go away.
This is his bad side. His other side has no defects aside from one small HITH circle and the fin issues, which are visible from both sides.
No cloudy eyes!
No more hiding!
Now that he's with his friends, he's going after food again. He'll even peck them away from food he's after!



113109



Everyone is now in the main tank with the new substrate. I'm going to wait a week to take my after picture so everyone will look their best, because some of the fish have roughed up scales from the netting. If the color change is dramatic, I think it'll be fun to start a new thread to show off how the substrate can change the colors of a fish. :) With my dark background, it may not be a huge change though. We'll see what happens!

[jmf3460]

So you opted not to go with the 3rd levamisole treatment Undel?

[undel]

So you opted not to go with the 3rd levamisole treatment Undel?

I didn't realize a third treatment was necessary. The medication says two treatments, one to wipe out the parasites, one to wipe out the eggs after they hatch. Do you think I should take him out in another 3-4 weeks and do a third if I think he can handle it? I'm worried about the poor guy's kidneys, but equally I don't want him to have to have gone through this whole ordeal, only to have the underlying problem still present.

Before he went into the main tank he got his second round of levamisole. For good measure I also treated all of my other discus in the 72 gallon, and treated the main tank while it was empty. My reasoning behind this was that if our patient got parasites from the snails or some other source, chances were good it was still present in my main tank and fish and I want it gone.

[jmf3460]

no I think you are good Undel, I thought levamisole was a 3 time treatment but I must have been wrong. I think you are on the right track and keep a sharp eye on him and on everyone else.