Maintaining cycle in empty Tank

[Flow Tamer]

Greetings Guys, l need to know how to dose my empty 125gal with pure ammonia in order to maintain my BB colonies inside my 2 Fx 5's. I have the "pure" ammonia l just need to know how much to add and how often to add it to keep my bacteria going. I know this could be a difficult question to answer due to the enumerable variables. But if someone could give me a jumping off point that would be great! Perhaps there is a way to use my API test kit in conjunction with the dosing to find the right amount for maintenance of my cycle until l restock. Thanks everyone! -walt

[Clawhammer]

What is the concentration of your ammonia? Is it janitorial ammonia? It should say on the bottle

[Flow Tamer]

Thanks Clawhammer! It's Austin's clear ammonia, MSDS says 2.5- 4% by volume

[Bizarro252]

Here ya go, this is what I used and it worked great, and testing after I added matched up right on with what the calculator said it should be, I was using Ace Hardware 10% conc janitorial ammonia but this lets you enter in whatever you want, just make sure to set salinity at 0.

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/AmmoniaCycling.php


Edit:
FYI The MSDS I found for that product states 0.5-2.5%, not sure if this one or the one you found is right :P
http://austinsbleach.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Austins-Ammonia.pdf

[Flow Tamer]

Thanx Bizarro! Great calculator, thanx for the link! Yes l found 2 MSDS for Austin's products, the one you found and another one. Maybe l will just find an ACE hardware and get the 10% because even using the calculator what value do l plug in? Both sets of values have huge variation, quite frustrating on the part of Austin's products! Thanx for the legwork, much appreciated! -walt

[Flow Tamer]

If l were to use the Austin's l would use the values that you found, that particular MSDS came up right away for me also. But in regards to their very poor quality control what value should l plug in .5 or 2.5? I am surprised they are content with such a degree of variation in their product!

[DJW]

The concentration of the 10% stuff varies quite a bit too, so its better to use the test kit rather than a pre-calculated amount. I would add 1 tablespoon of the Austin's, test it, then add more until there is 2 or 3 ppm. At the start it can be anywhere from 1 to 4 ppm.

[Flow Tamer]

Thanx Dan! I am trying to maintain already established filters, so is your advice for maintenance or establishment of a fishless cycle? I recently had 12 discus in this tank up until a few days ago. Thanks for the info on the ACE hardware stuff varying also. I would rather just use the Austin's ammonia l have and dose accordingly for maintenance of existing colonies not fishless cycle start up

[DJW]

Ok I thought you were starting a new cycle. As near as I can tell, 1 discus per 10 gallons works out to about 2 ppm per day. If you use more than that and build the filter too strong there can be problems with cloudiness when you add fish again.

[Flow Tamer]

Ok l great l just learned something, l knew if you overstock there are bioload vs. BB colony ratio problems, but l didn't know if your colonies were much larger than bioload demand it could cause an issue. I thought colonies that were too large would just die down without incident. Thanx Dan!

[Flow Tamer]

Almost forgot, thanx for the math on the ammonia per discus yeild, l'm gonna roll with it!

[Bizarro252]

I had always wondered what to use to estimate a discus' load on the tank, thanks for that Dan :)

And Walt, you can just pick a number in the middle of the concentrations and go with it as a start. Given the volume of your tank and the weak solution you have, dosing by the tablespoon sounds like a good idea to me, to start I might try assuming 2% concentration and add 3 tablespoons (44ml), if it IS actually 2% that should put you at 2ppm. If its 2.5% then you will still be OK, and if its less than 2% just add more :D

[Paul Sabucchi]

Not tried with discus yet but with mbunas (that are also big and messy) to keep a tank cycled (rescapes required at times) I just add ammonia up to about 4ppm and test every 2-3 days adding when it drops below 2ppm...so far no problem adding fish back in even considering overstocking is the norm with these fish

[Flow Tamer]

Awesome! Big thanks to both of you! This is all extremely useful info for me! Fishless cycling info is easy to find, but l never came across any info on how to dose for maintenance! Well done and much appreciated! -walt

[Flow Tamer]

+1 for Dan also, l always wondered approx. what kind of load Discus put on the water!

[DJW]

In case you are wondering where I dreamed up the 2 ppm/day, I go backwards from nitrate increases.

If you change 50% of the water daily and the nitrate is 10 ppm before WC and 5 ppm after, then the filter is producing 5 ppm per day of nitrate. Do a bit of math with the weight of nitrogen and you get about 1.5 ppm of ammonia per day.

or...

If you change 50% of the water daily and the nitrate is 14 ppm before WC and 7 ppm after, then the filter is producing 7 ppm per day of nitrate. Do the math for nitrogen and you get 2 ppm of ammonia per day.

I figure its somewhere in this range, and that its safer to be on the high side to avoid a mini-cycle.

[Neptune]

I know there is a lot of controversy about BB in a bottle but I've used TetraSafe and Stability on three tanks. Have not had any problems with any of them.
My new 65 ran for only two weeks before I dumped in TetraSafe and Stability on the same day I added my little discus and no problems yet!

I have been doing daily WC's and adding Stability with each WC as per directions in the 65.

I've found it to save a lot of the monkey business of the fishless cycle.

[Flow Tamer]

Thanx Neptune! I have used Dr. Tim's stuff (bottled BB) with success in smaller tanks and less pricey fish, never had the nerve to try it with discus, but that stuff seems to work. I was wondering how you arrived at 2ppm Dan, thanx for the very cerebral and scientific explanation- math is the only honest thing theft on the planet, it Don't lie! Lol!

[Ryan925]

I know there is a lot of controversy about BB in a bottle but I've used TetraSafe and Stability on three tanks. Have not had any problems with any of them.
My new 65 ran for only two weeks before I dumped in TetraSafe and Stability on the same day I added my little discus and no problems yet!

I have been doing daily WC's and adding Stability with each WC as per directions in the 65.

I've found it to save a lot of the monkey business of the fishless cycle.

I've had great luck with stability as well.

[Flow Tamer]

For what's it's worth, with everyone's help l am dosing my tank for cycle maintenance with Austin's clear ammonia (much weaker than ACE hardware ammonia). I have arrived at 2ppm daily by adding 60ml. to my 125 gal. tank. I measured my 2ppm dosing threshold using the API Master Test Kit. In 24 hrs. I have no trace of ammonia. Now according to Dan's ammonia per discus, per 10 gallons of water formula this should have my colonies large enough to to take a 12 adult discus restocking right in the chin! I know these are ballparks and approximates and l could tweek any shortcomings with water changes until bioload matches BB colony size. Thanks for everyone's help, very good thread, for me anyway!