Fishless Cycle Almost Complete - Last Questions Before Ordering From Hans

[rightwinger59]

Hello! This has been a long process, but I believe that this tank is about ready to receive some discus. Before I place this large order, I had a few questions that I'd like to pose to you folks. But first, let me give you the context for the questions by describing the tank:

This is going to be a planted, show tank that is located in my office. It is roughly 80 gallons:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Pj_HmcFJOrE7Ljs6ve-O7I_6V7DTC1r7852drUchT2F3yd-V5Yll-5SQQZ9pfEu6d6SseMaGNXJoF296L6hf6pdNVGmXqOd_AdZ9ECT anKRNRKeGHWFN6NbDSsoE1qDkCZo02qCi6Pk29uEKOauGMaK_A 0OUEtZmC4igmVZZ4TLuM7fVrUSc76Lu2WeHjG6giiojTUuJ4VK ciWhFAMdn7xWbgpOnjCJh-BwSUQK-5J4e1njRen2gwu8gJQXpV_t0TdwJksfeIZ4gAonIdORyzt7Wrq rVE8S3I85LSQlf5Esy_hJRXejV9ijiGkgphhygOlRcdhk3fT2A aymGZ04yeAPk5FC5tMnkfVMvLPrBrnXBhl3zg-JCl-Atev8I3Mi9uMcXGefp1zmkX-DY7QNQ__MSMukOI6aZrNOFm0hDyU2QXu6nosQsJKTjqvrqoejc lmEtgI1ghqw9C24T6NWARzJ_qP-z7eJn6OIRg-yS6EI80RCoDsw7pLJ0-ObFYD6AqquBBLcrr_Bn9MtY704-6wOadwP-bOD0R5SXU3bgg9fjxv9rYHNk3PEO0WzccAllHUJdDejtbuiO_I tpwxAZM9ZAnE566PYsWKJqGzyLNw=w803-h1070-no

I've got an Eshopps low-profile box with a bean-animal drain into a sump below, where I've got a secondary heater, sock, bio media, miracle mud, some wisteria growing, more bio media, and a return pump with an inline atomizer for CO2 hooked up:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jc66Nfu3qxBg2zonrfyclv8Hmrnl5rokQ7AYp58U3EC9qdhhnq HEuGJwQj-FYlmbdcnYAoWqOCiJr9E_KTHOQdVGNnZOMrU1nXLPYBZJA4mUM v1_Z6Tpd9nvaLTuvlHCdFntjZVrLEVJAlJWwcKMCinMw2-ByobzHw2AYEY4GbCbaYrYoru0JwsIeibvkjczpK5zklHbKSNVY B0_M5mFfTJiDGN9hStI3uJ5U5JSvdtNmINrXkkCMjazrVwlpUn OZRud9i1SUB1GMO07rf0BOfDtVBug66LruLOg-eV_aR11fG9FhmQvrVEJIYaVLsnFncUnZUi047Z7EhW_rx79aiP wXaYP-EMc1hUYwvFB4lhGV95NwJBSqUo33lJRe6awYDpw-1TjP9cdj4m_HrTsUlMVjjRKRt_fd4cRZCFaeRMxljG99Ple_cP vOhWjKcEWxoQJdn30f23RTmJxmfjXQpXVDt4w6OMPHC45gLetT _vn-ui8hJ4lmPUj2Ag8Yu3WjH5zxebiC_GUxo3j4wm65r5NsUt_kNU HSzUTGsg9yp84QMjv9eERZVCEnB9e8jvgEiRlFqBlCRMmo-IhpsaOo5Yuo5rXm5HiyTf8eG3zlA=w803-h1070-no

I have a pH monitor and an airstone in the sump, as well as a temp controller. Temp is currently set to fluctuate between 81 and 83 degrees:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xFoEW2lseRvHLxMLHOGtCYXJ7x59d3KYey-W2-IlIWR-p4ZWJEMGWD3qGcOUoFMAPDvQO_-N0Cpn93hpvSqVn5OgORIuIa_nSBj_U7HQcBahoCgoO-jAn6wRYlPg6wtJ3m5kLKNEZcJuMKFzF0Mnlt9TNh3PQm3OwXCO _K72TAPawWVnA_ume24_s0DLRWAW3hgPBtO7cPNKeetzZXXF5e fulTZd9fXFODYh8qB4UXKr3NvxeI6O2NMfipzc0zjt_5NfzSrv hiaGvsq15zjwQKLj8wViYWyBWpM8yet_CNxMGQ6oL-EYwnL7OAhl_x7SMaZyYv4MiTT1i1TNSw7WmtY66JUsPadipT5C tBxDmDbwMDrFWk-ztq1rIbb6p0ngTYq02_8V4De-a7mZEblHCMMzdzO7b0hH0wvpVO5N-7ap4RaSiFkAtX1XK9ogJM_LABwF-Cy38Wmuult_OUFd_Fd6wRfcRq4Py0brMFPCHrNLDRPOhpPYWLk ft0u5T9SwUhS8wLGkmKYBHdS0BpLBmEBtlwqAZzY4BGXtQcQBY Dpt4z6zbJY5vo7LEim7Nb15h0u69uPJqPMxH4GD0qWDFf2eOQA HwcKPexpTMq6C8A=w803-h1070-no

Finally, I have a Fluval FX4 set up that runs through a large UV filter that is mounted on the ceiling of this compartment:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kyLcACrkN6PtO_IbnjOj0p_GULulo9BxTBlwfMO1ZJQsPRQezY Z_dhS51WRHXdjtwIIMT3J9Hw4BKoGcrySZi_emQP-mgKjyYIAnDfZy6U0dQN1Q7hv_lvIdhQDTozdk_zhLOQgvJPg4Q 0StftKLo_zU6hCq5ytYgQf4eo1eyHSv1eHLuMfYxFiGimFXIdX mfGNWf0bhYLCNYBHF7TO4FtXikebty0E0xYGEqEhZp0sk3lkGg EtPGxO9rsw_mQJExEa_v8TxquERgUwaRQG2kQ6J4mgoMb8Y21p 1CvVnfqwqOo3tFTXmWMkJsZne8zwrTFNbE2TTrh2YQ3tClVMtx 1-2SZ_Igtk1g4I1m6x5nSQbNjCb3jevv5r9qd6SFl71Fkq3k0EqQ leua4SSlX1x2NECBIQKvWJBkaM45-GKEjC9XqsaBQOJf9WPHPzNlcJ0AfAajvPDEjJdRrXlAr9jxmlW eKteKVGK87YErpWjO8vkYCY9ek-yFp5lC_AB5NRikK6KgqtT71vDKjNE6T2Wrs2grmb-A0yzlJhFoawzXKKfhKRA8WbL8GUN4XONv64vEHT-g_BIb0ukWaLwPbuQC--A6KJVFydEYoUqEB0r1g=w803-h1070-no

This tank has been set up since June. Plants and CO2 were added in July. Fishless Cycle started mid-August. Right now, when I add the ammonia (Ace janitorial stuff) the ammonia levels are back to zero within 12 hours. Still detecting nitrites 24 hours later, but I believe that is because I have been over-dosing the ammonia. Started with 15 ml, then backed that off to 8. Tested this morning (after no ammonia added over the weekend) and ammonia and nitrites were both zero. Nitrates are at about 50 ppm, so plan on doing some water changes this week while continuing to add ammonia, but I think I am very close to being ready to add some fish.

Here are my questions:


Can I save some $$$ by ordering 4" discus for this tank, or should I get the 5" variety? Consensus here seems to be that adult, mature discus are best for a planted tank, but I didn't know whether 4" would qualify as "adult."
What are your quarantine proceedures? Or do I need to quarantine, since this tank has no fish (only living things are snails)? I get that quarantine is best, but I do not have a second tank at my disposal so doing any sort of quarantine with the discus themselves will be very difficult.
Eventually I would like to add some cardinal tetras to the tank. Would it be best to start with the smaller tetras and then go discus, or vice versa? Given my answer to the question before, it seems as though getting the discus first would be best, since I could essentially quarantine them in this tank if necessary. When it's time to add the tetras, though, I may need to find a 10 gallon tank and just do daily H20 changes or something...
I thought algae might be a problem, but have noticed very little in the tank to this point. Do you need to have bottom feeders once the discus are added, or could I just go without? Seems like plecos get mixed reviews and are messy, so honestly I think I'd rather go without the extra poop if possible since algae does not seem to be a problem.
I plan on ordering food soon as well. I was thinking about a good mix of flakes (will have to use auto-feeder on weekends), worms (freeze dried and frozen), shrimp? Since we're going with adults, I gather that one feeding per day is sufficient, is that correct? And then I could rotate between the flakes and frozen/freeze dried worm during the week with flakes over the weekend?


Am I missing anything?

Thank you for your input. Honestly I don't know who is more excited for the fish: me, or my co-workers who have watched me run this tank for months without anything in it. :)

[Surf&turf]

Awesome setup. I just started my discus tank about the same time as you but I added all the other fish first, so I could make sure they were all healthy. 6 Cory cats, 2 Siamese algae eaters, and over a dozen glow-lite tetras. I just added my Discus last Wednesday and they are doing great. They came from Myrtle Beach discus.

[White Worm]

You may want to go larger than 4". At that size, they still have some growing to do and it can be a challenge in a planted tank setup. Since there are no fish, it is your quarantine tank. When you get any new fish, quarantine them before adding to discus tank. I'd probably get a school of cards, a couple sterbai to scrounge around and cleanup. 1 small BN pleco to keep the driftwood clean.

[rightwinger59]

Awesome setup. I just started my discus tank about the same time as you but I added all the other fish first, so I could make sure they were all healthy. 6 Cory cats, 2 Siamese algae eaters, and over a dozen glow-lite tetras. I just added my Discus last Wednesday and they are doing great. They came from Myrtle Beach discus.

Thanks! It's been a true labor of love up to this point, let me tell you. :P Glad to hear your discus are doing well.


You may want to go larger than 4". At that size, they still have some growing to do and it can be a challenge in a planted tank setup. Since there are no fish, it is your quarantine tank. When you get any new fish, quarantine them before adding to discus tank. I'd probably get a school of cards, a couple sterbai to scrounge around and cleanup. 1 small BN pleco to keep the driftwood clean.

Thanks for the reply. Picking tankmates is proving to be almost as fun as choosing the discus themselves. The sterbai strain looks slick - I don't think I'd mind a few of those on the bottom, although it looks like I'll need to be setting up a quarantine tank at home for any potential additions, as I don't think I want to wait to get the discus in here. :P

[Phillydubs]

Very sweet set-up indeed! Well done for sure! Another newbie who really hit the ground running and did homework and has something most of us lack, especially myself!!! Patience!!!! LOL... Please keep my lack of patience in mind as I try to answer your questions above haha...

Before I start, one thing jumped out at me... Why have anything in the tank when you can hide it all away in that nifty sump set up? Just curious on your thinking here. I too have a sump and its stuffed with gear, leaving my tank bare.

On the debate of the 4" fish and all that.... I have never done a planted tank as you have, however, from years of reading, that's always the claim, for planted tanks, bigger is better, do to what was already said, the fish still have room to grow, which means the water needs to be extra pristine, also usually to get them to grow the feedings need to be more, in-turn creating more maintenance. As you see this is why there is always a catch with discus and plants because they can counter act one another at times with their needs. If you are def going w hans or whomever, maybe out your haggle hat on and see what you can do to work a deal to get the bigger fish. I think in the long run and with all the work and effort you put in here, grabbing fish at a bigger size, although a harder hit to the pocket will get you what you want and it will make it worth the spend in the end.

I don't think hans sells tankmates and all but others do, I have done the QT dance and also risked it and skipped or got from the same source and added all. There is always a risk in doing so, but there is also no method thats 100% safe either. You could get a 10 gallon qt them for months and an issue may arise, you just never know. The safest way would be add your discus, grab a 10 or 20 on the $1 per sale and house your added mates for 6 weeks or so and just observe. Make sure whatever you get is of good size, because I have had issues with my discus picking off things they can get in their mouth. You don't "need" tankmates but they sure are cool and fun. I like the suggestion above for 1 bn some corries and a nice school of tetra's. I have emerald green corries that are big and ever so pretty and that would be my recommendation.

A good mix of food is always best if you can get the discus to accept it all. less is more with food and its a big mistake folks make. I often fast my discus over the weekend when I am not around, you may not even need the auto feeder. especially with your set up and the plants and all that, less is def more. You will find a routine that works and see. Let the fish tell you what they need and lastly ENJOY!!!

I can't wait to see this beauty w the fish swimming very cool!!! Any idea of strains or what you plan to add?

[rightwinger59]

Before I start, one thing jumped out at me... Why have anything in the tank when you can hide it all away in that nifty sump set up? Just curious on your thinking here. I too have a sump and its stuffed with gear, leaving my tank bare.

I am a minimalist myself and tried to put as much below as possible. The only thing that you saw in the tank is the larger fluval heater that i've got mostly hidden behind the Amazon swords. The intake and return for the canister heater and then the return from the sump have to be in the tank. I have a secondary heater hidden in the sump, as well as the aerator, lights, and wisteria/miracle mud. So I guess I was ok having the one heater in the main tank. :P


I think in the long run and with all the work and effort you put in here, grabbing fish at a bigger size, although a harder hit to the pocket will get you what you want and it will make it worth the spend in the end.

I agree with this. I was planning on getting the 5" variety to begin with (my hobbies are funded by plasma donations, or, as I refer to it, my "blood money"), and I've got enough of that saved up to make the investment. I just thought I'd get some responses about whether I'd be okay with 4" vs. the 5" and save myself some $$$.


The safest way would be add your discus, grab a 10 or 20 on the $1 per sale and house your added mates for 6 weeks or so and just observe. Make sure whatever you get is of good size, because I have had issues with my discus picking off things they can get in their mouth. You don't "need" tankmates but they sure are cool and fun. I like the suggestion above for 1 bn some corries and a nice school of tetra's. I have emerald green corries that are big and ever so pretty and that would be my recommendation.

I've done more reading and this is the conclusion I've reached as well. Plus I want to order the discus first anyway, so... :)

I just found a 10 gallon with hood, heater, and filter on the local classifieds for $40 so will be picking that up tonight. I figure I could get a school of 20 cardinals in there and do lots of water changes or, worst case scenario, to 10 at a time. I think 20-25 would be good for my tank, plus the corry and BN.


I often fast my discus over the weekend when I am not around, you may not even need the auto feeder. especially with your set up and the plants and all that, less is def more. You will find a routine that works and see. Let the fish tell you what they need and lastly ENJOY!!!

I had no idea how long discus could go without food until I read the sticky on these forums about vacations. Totally put my mind (and my co-worker's mind) at ease, as I do take a week or two-week vacation now and again. After reading that, I will probably not feed them over the weekend as you suggest. Then I don't have to worry about the dumb feeder malfunctioning and dumping everything into the tank.


I can't wait to see this beauty w the fish swimming very cool!!! Any idea of strains or what you plan to add?

Will do! I'm currently waiting for a better special from Hans, who apparently just finished redoing his shop and so doesn't have a 6 5" special where I can choose the varieties. My wish list includes: Blue Diamond, Fire Red, German Wonder, Leopard Snakeskin, Pigeon Blood Red, and Red Turquoise.

[fishbubbles]

Thanks! It's been a true labor of love up to this point, let me tell you. :P Glad to hear your discus are doing well.



Thanks for the reply. Picking tankmates is proving to be almost as fun as choosing the discus themselves. The sterbai strain looks slick - I don't think I'd mind a few of those on the bottom, although it looks like I'll need to be setting up a quarantine tank at home for any potential additions, as I don't think I want to wait to get the discus in here. :P

I have a dozen Sterbai corydora's and believe they are a great compliment to any discus tank.

[rightwinger59]

Thanks for all the input. My water is looking great - I'm still dosing with 5 ml of ammonia, but ammonia and nitrites read zero after 24 hours. Been doing water changes daily to lower the nitrates.

I also placed my order for 6x5" discus from Hans. They will be arriving Tuesday morning. Very excited!!!

[Paul Sabucchi]

Bet the week-end will pass real slow for you! I am sure it will look amazing

[White Worm]

Show us some video of the unpacking. I haven't seen any hans discus delivered in a while.

[rightwinger59]

Bet the week-end will pass real slow for you! I am sure it will look amazing

Ummm....yeah. Totally. I'm already dreaming about discus. Luckily I'm going to be pretty busy this weekend, so...


Show us some video of the unpacking. I haven't seen any hans discus delivered in a while.

Haha - funny you should mention the video. I've been chatting with Hans over email (he has been EXTREMELY helpful, btw - can't recommend the guy enough) and he suggested that I take an unpacking video. I will be taking one and will post it when I can.