Potassium permanganate in main tank with Anubias

[HarryDk]

I'm thinking of doing a pp bath for the first time at 2mg/L for 4 hour and filter off.
Hopefully I will execute it right, however I have a big driftwood with anubias, not too sure if they will survive the treatment, anyone with similar issue please let me know if Anubis can take 4hour pp dip?

Here is my step, would love to hear your opinions.
1) turn off filter and drain the tank partly. Add a few air stones and maybe a powerhead to circulate the water.
2) take off the driftwood and plant (maybe or maybe not?) somewhere else for shorter dip (?) during treatment.
3) dose the remain water at 2mg/L.
4) get pop-corn and eyeballing the tank for the next 4 hours and maintain the colour light purple
5) after 4 hours, water will turn yellow/brown, remove as much water as possible and fill the tank, add back plants and filter etc

Concern:
1) how toxic is the yellow/brown inactive pp water? I can not remove them all because need to leave some water for the fish
2) I also have pleco, siamese algae eater, cories and rummy nose, kuhli loach in the tank, are they ok with pp?

Please tell me what do you think :book::book:

[LizStreithorst]

take the plant out and do as you planned. Once the water turns yellow/brown and you do a good WC put the plant back in.

[brewmaster15]

The anubias will be fine with the pp Harry but if you turn off the filter its going to negate any good you do. Once you turn it on anything in the filter will re-infect the tank.

Also if you treat your water for chlorine or ammonia it will react with and neutralize the pp very quickly.
hth,
al

[LizStreithorst]

But Al, the plant and driftwood it's attached to are organic and PP eats organics. At the very least the PP will become inactivated before it has a chance to do what he will be putting it in for. Am I wrong?

[pitdogg2]

But Al, the plant and driftwood it's attached to are organic and PP eats organics. At the very least the PP will become inactivated before it has a chance to do what he will be putting it in for. Am I wrong?

I'm right there with you Liz. But it will still need to be treated somehow right?

[HarryDk]

But Al, the plant and driftwood it's attached to are organic and PP eats organics. At the very least the PP will become inactivated before it has a chance to do what he will be putting it in for. Am I wrong?


I'm right there with you Liz. But it will still need to be treated somehow right?

I look around, and feel like it is best to take out the plant and treat them at different dose, like Liz said, plant will add to the total organic and therefore increase the amount of pp I must use. hmm, will be a pain, that driftwood is 3ft long :(

[HarryDk]

The anubias will be fine with the pp Harry but if you turn off the filter its going to negate any good you do. Once you turn it on anything in the filter will re-infect the tank.

Also if you treat your water for chlorine or ammonia it will react with and neutralize the pp very quickly.
hth,
al

Hi Al,
I was thinking the same, but actually I have never use pp for the hobby and the though of pp destroyed my sump is too scary especially I'm running K1 as main media .
This sump is just about 1 year old, do you think the bio filter can handle 2ppm of pp? man the risk :(

[Filip]

I've recently performed a ton of PP baths(2 ppm per liter for 4 hours ) and they haven't harm my plants(much weaker then anubias BTW ) nor did they knocked out my established biofilter .

If your driftwood is a PIA to get it out I would perform the PP with it inside .
I would leave the filter on and maintain the same water level as usual to be sure every bit of the tank is PP-ed for the purpose you are doing it .

Your filter mainly , than your driftwood secondly , will greatly neurltralize your PP during the procedure , so be prepared to redose the initial dose a couple of times during the procedure to maintain 2 PPM colouration .
Aerate as hell during the treatment too and turn off your UV , Carbon and Lights if you have any .

Don't worry about the yellow residual water after the PP is inactive . This yellow water is harmless for life and it gets neutralized and cleaned in minutes with H202 after you fill up the tank , or it goes away by its self if left .
HTH .

Good luck Harry .
P.S.
I'm just curious, are you treating for Gill flukes ?

[HarryDk]

Thanks Filip,
I recently away from home for 6 weeks, my brother had taken care of the tank. When I come back I can see some of them having issue with the gills, not eating as much, resting head down 45% etc. One of them even have sight of eye cloud.
I dose salt a few days ago, those that came to the rock salt and ate it, improve right away lol. But 2 other still looking pissed with only 1 gill flapping. So I though this is fluke and some external infection. pp is my first step in mind.
This is a 500L tank with 10 adults discus + some smaller fish, I only do 90% weekly wc because nitrate never go above 5 at the end of the week.

I will try pp for the first time this weekend, nervous but excited to see how it go with my sump still running.

PS: I do replace filter sock every morning, do I need to remove it during pp treatment? i'm 100% sure the sock will turn purple :D

[Filip]

Leave the sock and any other prefilters. they will collect a lot of burned mulm and organics from the tank .
Watch out for weaker fish because they might not be able to withstand the whole 4 hours . Be ready to change the water in case of emergency.
Any presence of dechlor will neutralize PP .
Add a circulation pump and pour pP solution slowly to avoid fish swimming through clouds of Concentrated PP.

[HarryDk]

Filip,
what is the behavior of the fish when they can't take the pp any more? dash? shake? or lying down?
During treatment, if I see that, can I remove him to smaller tank and dose less pp in there or fresh water?

THanks

[LizStreithorst]

Just watch them. They will tell you. I've never had one show stress myself but I think that they would lay down. Watch the fish. YOu will see it if some get stressed.

[sayid]

I have done PP 2 mg /liter 4 hours a few times no problems without the filter but the PP stays active for about 2 hours and then it changes colour from pink to brown .the fish had no problem.

[HarryDk]

I have done PP 2 mg /liter 4 hours a few times no problems without the filter but the PP stays active for about 2 hours and then it changes colour from pink to brown .the fish had no problem.

So did you not letting the pp go through your filter?

[Filip]

Filip,
what is the behavior of the fish when they can't take the pp any more? dash? shake? or lying down?
During treatment, if I see that, can I remove him to smaller tank and dose less pp in there or fresh water?

THanks

They ussualy get listless and loose balance when they can't take it no more . Laying down or tail standing listlessly in some corner near the top .
Put them in fresh water not in weaker PP solution if they loose balance .

You might as well do it without the filter as Said says but I think that Al point on this is also valid Whatever you treat for , it will stay untreated in your filter if you just turn it off during the PP treat.
And redose if it neurltralizes quicker than 4 hours.
Pink , Red and orange means active , yellow or brown means its inactive .

[sayid]

So did you not letting the pp go through your filter?

I switched the canister filter off for the 4 hours and when i switched it back on the brown colour of PP gradually got cleared.

[sayid]

They ussualy get listless and loose balance when they can't take it no more . Laying down or tail standing listlessly in some corner near the top .
Put them in fresh water not in weaker PP solution if they loose balance .

You might as well do it without the filter as Said says but I think that Al point on this is also valid Whatever you treat for , it will stay untreated in your filter if you just turn it off during the PP treat.
And redose if it neurltralizes quicker than 4 hours.
Pink , Red and orange means active , yellow or brown means its inactive .

I have never experienced fish loosing balance or roll over with 2mg per liter over 4 hours but they get listless as Filip said .i also have tried PP bath 10 mg per liter for 30 minutes with no problem.

[HarryDk]

Ayyy, tried it for the first time, everything is fine except for 1 single rummy nose. Poor guy KIA almost instantly :(. He must has jump in the highly concentrated pp when i pour in :(

[sayid]

I am happy that you experienced your first PP treatment ,it is not as bad as people think but it is still tough on the fish ,sorry to hear about your rummy nose ,i don't know what is KIA but it does not sounds good any way i usually add concentrated PP gradually with a power head so the fish don't get a shock ,are you still have problem with gill fluke ?

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Some plants will be harmed by pp at the doses we use...but anubias are very thick leaves, hardy plants. Some can even grow terrestrially . The leaves have a tough outer layer that should resist pp during a treatment.

hth clear up my post.

al

[Filip]

Maybe the rummynose was weaker fish that didn't survive the treatment .
You will still have to repeat the treatment every 4th day for total of 4-5 repetitions to break the cycle of the parasite if you are treating for flukes .
How were the results day after the treat ?
Did they seemed better in breathing, clamped fins or the gill Movement ?

BTW. Sayid , KIA is military abbreviation for " killed in action " . MIA is also popular term meaning " missing in action " .

[sayid]

Maybe the rummynose was weaker fish that didn't survive the treatment .
You will still have to repeat the treatment every 4th day for total of 4-5 repetitions to break the cycle of the parasite if you are treating for flukes .
How were the results day after the treat ?
Did they seemed better in breathing, clamped fins or the gill Movement ?

BTW. Sayid , KIA is military abbreviation for " killed in action " . MIA is also popular term meaning " missing in action " .

Thanks Filip for clearing that .
I have the same problem myself with fluke and planning with the logistics of how to deal with 15 adult discus and no working filter , i hope to be ready in about 8 weeks .

[Filip]

Thanks Filip for clearing that .
I have the same problem myself with fluke and planning with the logistics of how to deal with 15 adult discus and no working filter , i hope to be ready in about 8 weeks .

2 ppm of PP for 4 hours won't necessarily wipe out your whole BB colonies from the filter Sayid.
You can get away with doing large waterchanges during the treatment period in your main tank .

[sayid]

2 ppm of PP for 4 hours won't necessarily wipe out your whole BB colonies from the filter Sayid.
You can get away with doing large waterchanges during the treatment period in your main tank .

I think i need to to sterilize the tank and the filter media using bleach or 10 ppm of PP while the fish are being treated with 2ppm of PP in another tank ( andrew soh )
method ,i don't wish to hijack Harry's thread so soon i will start a new thread and ask for every one's advise .

[HarryDk]

Before treatment, fish show some kind of irritation, like occasional dash and scratch into objects. After treatment I can see some improvement, as they are less likely to do so, still shaking their fins some time. Well, I did the treatment with no filter. Don't plan to risk it for now.
My main purpose wasn't fluke, more like I want to give the tank a good clean. As coming back from the trip, i have 2 fish very weak and not eating, become so skinny. So something must happen in the water.

The 2 fish are in the hospital tank now, barely eat anything for 2 months now, I don't even know what to do. Keeping them in high temp with Metro 500mg/G. They just went through a full course of Furan2+kanamycin treatment a week before the metro. Poor fish, just want to save them,very nice solid red melon :(, now they look so pale. Got some live blackworms in there, hopefully they will have some

[Filip]

Before treatment, fish show some kind of irritation, like occasional dash and scratch into objects. After treatment I can see some improvement, as they are less likely to do so, still shaking their fins some time. Well, I did the treatment with no filter. Don't plan to risk it for now.
My main purpose wasn't fluke, more like I want to give the tank a good clean. As coming back from the trip, i have 2 fish very weak and not eating, become so skinny. So something must happen in the water.

The 2 fish are in the hospital tank now, barely eat anything for 2 months now, I don't even know what to do. Keeping them in high temp with Metro 500mg/G. They just went through a full course of Furan2+kanamycin treatment a week before the metro. Poor fish, just want to save them,very nice solid red melon :(, now they look so pale. Got some live blackworms in there, hopefully they will have some

After Furan , Kanamycine and Metro treat I'm affraid there is not much else you can do for thoose two discus Harry.
Just let the nature take its course and hope for the best . They may surprise you .

[HarryDk]

After Furan , Kanamycine and Metro treat I'm affraid there is not much else you can do for thoose two discus Harry.
Just let the nature take its course and hope for the best . They may surprise you .

one of them died yesterday, she look like she swimming, body stay up in the middle of the tank :(; if her gill isn't motionless, I may think she alive :((. Burried her under the backyard, the other redmelon still in very bad shape, not eating, so skinny and it break my heart looking at him. Don't even want to cull, just let him fight his fight and nature take its course. cryyyy

[sayid]

I am sorry to hear your loss ,it is the sense of helplessness which hearts , look Discuspaul put a thread which involves putting a small piece of orange peel in the tank and it suppose to increase the appetite of the fish ,i have not tried this but you have nothing to loose and it is not going to cost any thing ,have a look at it ,it is in the
food section of the main forum under the heading of orange peel .
HTH
Sayid

[HarryDk]

I am sorry to hear your loss ,it is the sense of helplessness which hearts , look Discuspaul put a thread which involves putting a small piece of orange peel in the tank and it suppose to increase the appetite of the fish ,i have not tried this but you have nothing to loose and it is not going to cost any thing ,have a look at it ,it is in the
food section of the main forum under the heading of orange peel .
HTH
Sayid

Why did I forget about that, gonna try tomorrow