Advice on recently set up discus aquarium

[NDI85]

It's been over 10 years since I last had a discus aquarium up and running. I hope you will bear with me and my newbie questions.

I recently started up an 40 gal hexagonal aquarium with 25 lbs of gravel and several and several plastic plants and a large driftwood, a sponge filter connected to an air stone, and a Marineland HOB filter. I use Pure Flo filter pads and Rox activated carbon in the HOB. I have 12 2" size discus in the aquarium. I will move them into a larger 55 gal hexagonal aquarium once they reach around 4". Aquarium temp hovers around 87F. Water pH is at 7.2, ammonia is steady at 0.0, nitrite is steady at 2.0, and nitrate again steady at 0.0. I do between 25-40% water change every other day. Since nitrite is high, I add Prime to the water during each water change. I also add Stress Zyme to the water each time. Currently I do between 25-40% water change every other day, and clean the gravel every other water change. I feed the discus frozen blood worm 2x a day and dry discus flakes once a day. I also feed them frozen brine shrimps but they don't attack it like they do with frozen blood worms or flakes, so I don't feed them that as often. They are so used to their feeding schedule as if they are on queue, they would hover closer to the surface around the same time each day waiting for food.

The question I have is should I increase my water change to daily or decrease it? I was told years ago that I should not clean the gravel often because I would remove the beneficial bacteria needed for the nitrification process. Is that true? Or should I clean the grave of uneaten food and fish waste at every water changes? I can't imagined having uneaten food and fish waste left in the gravel is good for them.

The water pH level in my new home is considerably higher than in my old home, so I've been adding about 1.5 tsp of pH down to each water change to see if I can slowly bring the pH down. I'm doing this again because of what I was told years ago from a guy in Atlanta whom I bought discus back then who mentioned that discus pH needs to be around 6.5 to thrive. My discus seem to be very active and playful, so I don't know if it's necessary for me to try to lower the pH level. What are your thoughts?

I would appreciate any advice that you folks who are more seasoned and knowledgeable than I am can provide. I will update a photo or video of my aquarium as soon as I get a chance to upload my phone's photo.

James

[sanjay21]

Hi James,

Welcome back to the hobby :) With 12 discus(2") in a 40 gallon with gravel, you need to do water changes every day 80%. When you buy discus at 2" size you need to be prepared to maximum water changes and more feedings. I would increase the feedings to 6 times a day. You can include beefheart(not mandatory) and freeze dried black worms - both are very high in protein. It's good to remove the uneaten food, with daily water changes you can siphon that out.
Regarding the ph I had so many questions myself when I started the hobby. Biggest Key is "Stable PH" I have all my tanks running at 7.8ph and at my previous residence I raised Discus with ph 8.2. Do not bother using PH down chemicals. PH swings is way more dangerous than having a stable ph.


- Sanjay

[White Worm]

40g tank with 25lbs of gravel is a mistake already. Need to be a larger tank with Bare Bottom to grow young discus. The discus will grow quick and you will need some thing larger than a 55g when they do. Gravel catches way too much gunk. I wouldnt mess with the pH since it can bounce back. I think you have a typo (Nitrite 2.0?). High nitrate means you have to do daily large water changes. The filter will build your beneficial bacteria. Blood worms aren't very good for discus and it can be hard to get them off of it once addicted.

[NDI85]

Sanjay, White Worm, thank you for your prompt reply and suggestions. Yes, it was definitely a typo. Nitrite level is at 2.0 and nitrate is at 0.0. Since I'm using Prime with each water change and it supposed to convert it to non toxic form, is it still recommended to do 80% water change daily? I will include dried black worms in their diet to see if they like it. I'm not a fan of beef hearts. I might also try live brine shrimps. I remembered how much discus my old discus loved chasing them down. I will take your advice to heart when the time comes for me to move them over to the 55 gallon. I might break up the group and have some in the 55 gal and the 40 gal. I do have a 150 g reef aquarium, but my plan is to eventually set that up as a reef aquarium as I used to have many years ago. If I do change my mind, that would be a great tank to hold a large number of discus. Thank you for the suggestion about not messing with pH, I did not think about the effect of it not being stable. I started using pH down a few days ago, but I will stop.

James

[White Worm]

Food - http://www.aquaticsuppliers.com/Freeze-dried-foods_c2.htm

With a tank that is not cycled, you need to be doing daily large water changes. You have a recipe for disaster brewing.

[NDI85]

White Worm, thanks for the dried black worm food link. I will increase my water change to daily and see how the nitrite reading progress.

[Kyla]

Def recommend removing that gravel completely asap. There are posts in this forum on how to do it safely. The sooner u remove it the better, for growth and overall health. Large daily water changes. No ph down - aging and aerating ur water is a good idea, even if ur ph remains stable - have u tested the ph straight from ur tap water and then retested it again later after it is aerated for a day? Dissolved gasses or chemicals added to water can affect the water's ph when they dissipate - if there is a change in ph after tap water has aerated for a day this ph swing could hurt the fish.

Beneficial bacteria lives on the hard surfaces in ur tank. Cleaning the gravel won't remove BB... but removing the gravel could remove some BB growing on it and put your cycle back a bit - but even then it is still a good idea to remove the gravel because of how filthy it is. Even if u clean it regularly it will still decrease the water quality. That many discus in that size of tank with gravel isn't a good idea, esp with smaller wc and partial cycle...

The majority of your BB will grow on the surfaces of your bio media in the filter where oxygenated water is constantly flowing over it. Do you have any bio media in your filter? Or just the pads and carbon? I don't use carbon personally, just pads and bio balls.

[Phillydubs]

I agree get that gravel out. I'd also plan on a new tank very soon. IMO that's the worst foot print possible for discus.

I tried before in a 40 gal cube it was not pretty. Where do you live ? Start looking on Craig's list or local stuff like that.

If you want to be successful it isn't that hard but doing it right from the jump is vital

[White Worm]

They would be better off in the 55G now with daily large water changes 70-80% with treated water aged 24 hours. Grow them in it Bare Bottom with HOB filter. Add a couple sponge filters with a nice air source. Find a 75G or larger to transfer them when they grow larger. The extra filters will come in handy for an instant cycle. Once they are larger and become adults, you can then add some nice sand, driftwood and plants for a nice display. Rule of thumb is 1 adult per 10G but you can push it if you have good tank maintenance and clean water.

[NDI85]

Kyla, I have been doing water changes straight up from the faucet instead of from an aerated reservoir container that I used to have from my old house. During each water change, I add additives to remove chlorine and chloramine from the water. In our new home, although it is larger, there is not a closet nearby that I could store a water tank out of sight. My wife would not be happy that I have a spare water tank in the family room. I will take a sample water straight from the faucet and see what the pH is before and after aeration and go from there. I did not realize having gravel was going to be a problem for the discus. When I had discus years ago, I had them in bare bottom aquarium. I hated the way it looked. It did not seem natural. I will gradually remove some gravel, but leave just enough for aesthetic.

I currently use an HOB filter that has a bio media wheel with pads and carbons. I also have a large Eheim canister filter that I will use with the 55 gal aquarium once the discus are ready to transfer over.

[NDI85]

I just completed the water change removing closer to 60% of the water. Because I'm refilling it straight from the tap, I have to keep the heaters on and in the aquarium and as close to the bottom of the aquarium as I can to allow it to warm up the water. I removed about 6 cups of gravel and will continue to do a little at a time with the daily water changes.

Thanks everyone for your valuable advice.

[Ryan925]

I just completed the water change removing closer to 60% of the water. Because I'm refilling it straight from the tap, I have to keep the heaters on and in the aquarium and as close to the bottom of the aquarium as I can to allow it to warm up the water. I removed about 6 cups of gravel and will continue to do a little at a time with the daily water changes.

Thanks everyone for your valuable advice.

Why not match tank temp from the tap?

I do tap water changes and just match temp at the faucet then fill

I would also stay away from ph altering products. Consistency is best. Nothing wrong with your 7.2 ph as long as you don't have a large swing after performing your aging test.

[Kyla]

My heaters lay on the bottom of the tank so when I do big water changes they remain submerged. I am afraid of forgetfully leaving them plugged in when the water level drops... nothing quite like hearing the snap crackle pop of an exposed heater to get your heart pounding.

I too used to fill my tank from tap and had a "python" which allowed me to match the temp of the tap water to the tank. It worked well. I removed most of the micro bubbles from my tap water by forcing the water thru a sponge before it entered the tank and it helped a ton but they still flicked their fins a bit after a wc because the bubbles bugged them I guess. It's hard to age water without space for a bucket. We are tossing around the idea of moving my 180 gallon to the main floor and before we do that I will need to find out if my pump attached to the water barrel in the basement can push the water vertically to refill the tank,.. fingers crossed! Otherwise the tank stays in the basement.

I know it sucks to be told that gravel hampers young discus growth/health, but the ugly bb-look would only be for a while - when the discus are larger and more robust it can be added back to the tank (with caution... I still prefer sand). We are only trying to help u avoid issues. I had a thick layer of substrate in with young discus and it was disaster! Just don't want to see u go down the same path....

[NDI85]

Why not match tank temp from the tap?

I do tap water changes and just match temp at the faucet then fill

I would also stay away from ph altering products. Consistency is best. Nothing wrong with your 7.2 ph as long as you don't have a large swing after performing your aging test.

I was informed by our water authority to not use warm water because of the hot water that comes out of the hot water tank could contain a lot of heavy minerals and such that are bad for fish. That's the reason why I only run straight up cold water from the tap. If no one here have fish died from running warm water, I am willing to try as well.


My heaters lay on the bottom of the tank so when I do big water changes they remain submerged. I am afraid of forgetfully leaving them plugged in when the water level drops... nothing quite like hearing the snap crackle pop of an exposed heater to get your heart pounding.

I too used to fill my tank from tap and had a "python" which allowed me to match the temp of the tap water to the tank. It worked well. I removed most of the micro bubbles from my tap water by forcing the water thru a sponge before it entered the tank and it helped a ton but they still flicked their fins a bit after a wc because the bubbles bugged them I guess. It's hard to age water without space for a bucket. We are tossing around the idea of moving my 180 gallon to the main floor and before we do that I will need to find out if my pump attached to the water barrel in the basement can push the water vertically to refill the tank,.. fingers crossed! Otherwise the tank stays in the basement.

I know it sucks to be told that gravel hampers young discus growth/health, but the ugly bb-look would only be for a while - when the discus are larger and more robust it can be added back to the tank (with caution... I still prefer sand). We are only trying to help u avoid issues. I had a thick layer of substrate in with young discus and it was disaster! Just don't want to see u go down the same path....

I had an Eheim exploded once. Luckily, I was not over it when it happened. But it was loud enough that made me jumped. There were no fish in the 10 gal at the time so nothing was kill. In the current aquarium, I placed the heaters as far down into the aquarium as the length of the power cord allows and do water change up to the base of the handle.

I removed some of the gravel yesterday and I will do more during each water change, but I feel bad for my boys. Yes, I call my discus "boys". My 12 year old daughter just rolled her eyes whenever she hears that. I don't think they like me disturbing their home. Hopefully with your advice, the change will be a positive one for them.

[White Worm]

You could always paint the bottom (outside of the tank) if you don't like the "BARE BOTTOM" look. I use a sand texture/multicolor paint and back it with black. It looks like a sandy bottom without the trouble of the mess.

[NDI85]

I do have another question. I've never heard of feeding black worms until after I joined this site. I fed discus with beefheart (I hate), discus pellets, live and frozen brine shrimps, flakes, dried blood worms (were not successful getting them to eat, so I stopped), and frozen blood worms. Are black worms healthier than blood worms? I feed mine mostly frozen blood worms and flakes. Once in awhile, I toss in a cube of frozen brine shrimps only because I bought 3 packs of them and wanted to use them up.

[Kyla]

I too was worried when I heard that heavy metals could build up in the hot water tank. To fix this I started draining my hot water tank periodically. It was really easy - I watched a couple videos on YouTube about how to do it safely and now I do it on a regular basis even tho I don't use hot water for water changes any longer.

My discus like the freeze dried black worms more than any other food I give them so I have made it a staple in their diet, although I still feed a variety of other foods as well. My favourite thing about them is how "clean" they are - my home made food and the pellets that I feed make a mess in the tank, but the FDBW are completely eaten up with no mess at all.

[NDI85]

I too was worried when I heard that heavy metals could build up in the hot water tank. To fix this I started draining my hot water tank periodically. It was really easy - I watched a couple videos on YouTube about how to do it safely and now I do it on a regular basis even tho I don't use hot water for water changes any longer.

My discus like the freeze dried black worms more than any other food I give them so I have made it a staple in their diet, although I still feed a variety of other foods as well. My favourite thing about them is how "clean" they are - my home made food and the pellets that I feed make a mess in the tank, but the FDBW are completely eaten up with no mess at all.

Yeah, I'm not exactly handy with things such as plumbing. Don't think I want to mess with the hot water heater especially with the cold weather coming on. Don't need my wife and daughter to give me a hard time for not having water hot water because I did something St Upid. Might have to get my father in laws to show me how to do it when he is able.

I will have to order black worms and give them a try. This link here: http://www.aquaticsuppliers.com/main.sc has several different types. Is there one that you prefer over the other or are they basically the same?

I noticed that some of the food get suck into the filtration or attached onto the filtration intake tube. Do you turn off your filter during feeding time? I used to do that years ago until it became too much of a hassle.

[Kyla]

I was doing it for quite a while, and it really helped with keeping the filter clean, buy after I forgot to turn it back on a couple times I stopped doing it. I've read some posts on here about how to rig up a reverse timer that u can press when u feed the fish and then it shuts off the filter while it counts backwards for 20 minutes and then it automatically turns the filters back on, but I'm not handy enough to cross the wires and make one, so it's still on the wish list.

I get the cubed ones and the loose ones, both with spinach. I feed the cubes ones by hand, by pressing them against the tank glass so they stick under water. I put the loose ones in my eheim auto feeder and it is set to feed them little bits of food multiple times a day when I'm at work. I have really seen an improvement in their overall health and vigor after setting up the auto feeder.

[White Worm]

I like the cubes. You squish them against the wall under water inside the tank and they stay there until eaten. No mess! I found that you have the chop em up pretty fine to get a consistent feed from the auto feeder.

[NDI85]

I was doing it for quite a while, and it really helped with keeping the filter clean, buy after I forgot to turn it back on a couple times I stopped doing it. I've read some posts on here about how to rig up a reverse timer that u can press when u feed the fish and then it shuts off the filter while it counts backwards for 20 minutes and then it automatically turns the filters back on, but I'm not handy enough to cross the wires and make one, so it's still on the wish list.

I get the cubed ones and the loose ones, both with spinach. I feed the cubes ones by hand, by pressing them against the tank glass so they stick under water. I put the loose ones in my eheim auto feeder and it is set to feed them little bits of food multiple times a day when I'm at work. I have really seen an improvement in their overall health and vigor after setting up the auto feeder.

Kyla, I connected my filter along with the heaters and lights to my multi-function DC adaptors unit. I forgot that I had 2 of those from years back when I had a reef tank running. Anyway, with it, I'm able to switch filter on and off at will, the same with lights. I put a light timer on it so that the lights turn on and off at specified interval. I tested it with the HOB filter and it worked too. In your case, you could get a light timer that has multiple time on and off and set that at the same time as your feeding time. That was what I did years ago back when my aqua controller was working.

I would like to get the eheim filter, but I don't know if that will work with my acrylic hex aquarium. I have a 4-5" X 12" opening on top where the light normal sits over. When I feed, I move the light out of the way to put the food into the opening. If the eheim can sit on top of the aquarium with part of it hanging over the water surface, it would work. Come to think of it, I might be able to get it to work by attaching Velcro to the feeder and the aquarium top. That should keep it from falling into the aquarium. Hmmm... it's something to think about.

Thank you for the food suggestion.