Blue Scorpion Project

[Rosskeegan24]

Hi all, my name is Ross and im from Ireland.
I have kept discus before and ever since that i have been itching to keep them again. I had a 65 gallon (240 litre) empty in my room for around a year and finally decided to stock it, so a few weeks ago i went to my LFS and ordered 6 2inch (5cm) blue scorpion discus from thailand.

I then started to prep the tank, as i said its a 65 gallon, i painted the bottom, the back and one side of the tank in matte white emulsion. I also washed out the tank multiple times to ensure the discus would be going into pristine conditions.
I had 2 sponge filters cycling in another tank that i had set up.

My planned W/C schedule is 75% daily at the beginning and from there i will figure out from testing my water whether or not to do bigger W/Cs. I will be using 24 hour aged water that has been conditioned using fluval water conditioner and aerated.

So last night at 9pm my discus arrived at the LFS and i went to pick them up, i wanted to collect them while still in their bags for a number of reasons. I also helped the owner of the LFS to unbox the rest of the fish that came in the shipment.

I quickly realised that the discus had been in the bags for Way too long ,the discus didnt look in the best shape, so i got home and did a simple plop and drop method of acclimating them into the tank. I then went asleep and hoped for the best lol. Anyway this morning i woke up and found all 6 discus swimming around and even schooling which was very relieving to see they were all ok.

I will try to get pictures of them up tonight once i figure out how to do it on mobile.

Anyway i hope you all are exited to see these discus grow as much as i am. So please be sure to follow along on this thread and please do comment if you have any advice / tips / suggestions.

Thanks for reading,
-Ross
:bounce2:

[Rosskeegan24]

Day-2
All 6 discus are in the tank and looking healthy, staying in a group huddled together. Just my luck that the lights would blow when i went to turn them on this morning, ill have to try get new bulbs over the weekend.

Did around a 30% water change last night, i would have done more but i didnt have a big enough water storage container at the time, just got a 200 litre (50ish gallon) blue barrel so from now on ill be able to do 80% water changes daily.
Currently looking for a more powerful pump to speed up the water changes.

Anyway back to the discus, tried feeding frozen brine shrimp last night but they kept spitting it out, they are very skittish at the minute but they have only been in the tank for a day so that is to be expected. I siphoned out the brine shrimp and waited 2 hours before offering tetra discus pellets, a few picked at them but they didnt eat much.

Tonight i will see what frozen foods i have and offer them something different (possibly bloodworms, iknow they are not the most nutritious meal but i do want to get them eating), i also have frozen discus mix (not homemade) but when i fed it to my other discus a few years back it made them quite bloated)

Any advice appreciated, thanks
-Ross

[Phillydubs]

Hey Ross! Very cool project! I am ready for pics!! I love blue scorps and can't wait to see yours grow!

Sounds like you are off to a nice start and had a good plan going in. Do you know the source of the fish or where they came from etc? How do the shapes and all look today, eye ratio and what not?

I'd give them some time on the food, no need to rush as they settle. But it sounds like you are really staying on top of water quality and un-eaten food and if thats the case then you can try to get them to eat if it makes you feel better but I wouldn't worry too much yet as they are very new.

Just do your thing and go about your business let them adjust to you and they will be off to the races!

[Rosskeegan24]

Hey Ross! Very cool project! I am ready for pics!! I love blue scorps and can't wait to see yours grow!

Sounds like you are off to a nice start and had a good plan going in. Do you know the source of the fish or where they came from etc? How do the shapes and all look today, eye ratio and what not?

I'd give them some time on the food, no need to rush as they settle. But it sounds like you are really staying on top of water quality and un-eaten food and if thats the case then you can try to get them to eat if it makes you feel better but I wouldn't worry too much yet as they are very new.

Just do your thing and go about your business let them adjust to you and they will be off to the races!
Hi phil, I had them imported from thailand and from what i could tell on the import list they are quite high quality,
They all look to be nicely shaped so far but it is still hard to tell. I ordered the smallest size i could get in order to ensure they grow out to their full potential by doing the water changes myself, ill keep offering different foods and siphoning up what they dont eat.
I am trying to figure out how to get good quality pictures up, ill see what i can do tonight. (Currently using an ipad and the quality is terrible :D)
Thanks for the advice it is much appreciated !
-Ross

[Ryan925]

Look forward to seeing them as well. They surely are still settling so be patient. Also keep in mind discus can be picky with new foods so persistence is key. You are doing exactly thr right thing by continuing to try food and siphon what they don't eat. Be patient and keep at it and good luck

[Rosskeegan24]

They lined up for their first photo shoot :D
113143
This is a better picture
113144
Im pretty sure a blue diamond somehow got mixed into the bunch haha
113145

Ill keep trying to get better quality pictures up for you guys.
Other than that not much to report, offered bloodworms today with some success, a few picked at them and ate some but not much, all in due time.

Im going to get my 200 litre(50ish gallon) barrel all hooked up tonight and ready to go.

Ill post some pictures of the tank and my setup once its all up and running smoothly.

Hope you all enjoyed the photos !
-Ross

[Phillydubs]

Very cool!! What an awesome first pic !

[Rosskeegan24]

Ok so this is more of a question than an update, but in regards to the discus they are all fine and looking healthy, they seem to be settling in slowly, last night they were fairly interested in tetra prima discus pellets which is good but other than that not much to update on.

My question is in regards to water changes, specifically my pump to get the aged water in my aging barrel into my tank,
I currenty use a small slow pump that takes ages.

I was able to get my hands on a brand new pump, it is a garden pump used for pumping large quantities of water. My problem is that its 1215 gallons per hour (4600 litres) which is way to fast for my 65 gallon tank :D.
Does anybody know how i could slow this down ? The pump is non adjustable.
Any advice on how to slow the flow down going into the tank would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
-Ross

[Phillydubs]

You could always kink the hose that it is coming out of. Is the pump in a bucket with the hose coming out? You could also attach a big sponge or something or a towel even wrapped over top. That will deflect the blast of the water and let it go slower.

Just two ideas that came to mind for me.

[Rosskeegan24]

You could always kink the hose that it is coming out of. Is the pump in a bucket with the hose coming out? You could also attach a big sponge or something or a towel even wrapped over top. That will deflect the blast of the water and let it go slower.

Just two ideas that came to mind for me.
Thanks for the ideas phil !
I was able to get a really wide hose to attach onto the output of the pump so that there is much less pressure than with a garden hose.
With the discus all is good, they picked at some turkey heart last night but again didnt eat much.
They really love their water changes, they get much more active after them so ill keep up the big w/cs.
Full setup pics coming soon so stay tuned!
-Ross

[Phillydubs]

Nice... also another idea is you can go to a hardware store and rig up a cheap ball valve or something like that to limit the flow. You would need to be a tad handy to do that. My low tech *** would use the sponge and rubber bands or something lool!!!

Don't jump around too much on food, especially early on, you will never get them to eat that way. Stick with either a routine of 2-3 foods or even just one to get thm going and used to it. But if every feed is new, they may stay picky on you. Since they are tiny and growing, Id pound them w that turkey heart mix and use something like FREEZE DRIED BLACK WORMS AND STICK TO THAT.

[Ryan925]

Thanks for the ideas phil !
I was able to get a really wide hose to attach onto the output of the pump so that there is much less pressure than with a garden hose.
With the discus all is good, they picked at some turkey heart last night but again didnt eat much.
They really love their water changes, they get much more active after them so ill keep up the big w/cs.
Full setup pics coming soon so stay tuned!
-Ross

Connect a siphon tube to the end like a python. You could go even further and stuff it with a micron sock or filter floss. Does it seem to bother your fish? Many are running in the 1000-1200gph range with sumps although at your guys size might be a bit much. As full says a ball valve would also be an idea. Would be really simple. Just get a threaded pvc ball valve and get the proper barbed fittings to fit the size tubing you are using. Super simple

[Rosskeegan24]

Slightly worrying update today, i did a 50% water change with my new pump and then fed a cube of brine shrimp and siphoned out the leftovers.
Shortly after that one of the discus started hanging around the top of the tank, seperated from the others acting slightly lethargic.
A few things to note : after the water change the water was kind of cloudy and small bubbles formed on the surface of the water, this may have been from the pressure of the water from the w/c and also i left my aerator running in the aging barrel so it sucked up quite a lot of bubbles and they were pumped into the tank, also there was a very thin layer of film in some areas of the tank, even though there is quite a lot of surface agitation from the 2 sponge filters in the tank.

One of my fears is that the pump (unused before this) may have had some sort of lubrication fluid/oil in it although i did rinse out the pump and i ran it for a while pumping clean water through it before i used it.

At the minute i dont have water heated ready to do a water change (its currently heating in the aging barrel but wont be up to temperature for another 6-8 hours)

I added some fluval water conditioner to the tank which is supposed to reduce heavy metals which im hoping will help.

If anyone has any advice at all on what i could do or what you think this is please leave a reply, thanks

Edit:
I also added some carbon to try and minimise the heavy metals in the water if that is the issue, i also skimmed the surface of the water with some paper towel which got rid of the small bubbles and the film.

Here are some photos of what is going on 113193113194
-Ross

[Ryan925]

If it were me I would be concerned about the bubbles and film on the surface. Hard to tell if it came from that pump or not.

Why the concern of heavy metals ?

[Rosskeegan24]

If it were me I would be concerned about the bubbles and film on the surface. Hard to tell if it came from that pump or not.

Why the concern of heavy metals ?

Oils from machinery usually contain heavy metals in high concentrates, so that was the main thing i was concerned about.

However i washed out the pump fully and made sure there was no more oil left inside it, did a 70% water change and everything seemed fine, no film or bubbles.

The discus are starting to eat much better now, im sticking to frozen cubes of brine shrimp before i do my water change and tetra discus pellets in the evening.

Everything is running smoothly now and it only takes me 6 minutes to do a 75% water change now which is great.

Thank you to everyone that has offered advice so far especially ryan and phil !
-Ross

[Ryan925]

Oils from machinery usually contain heavy metals in high concentrates, so that was the main thing i was concerned about.

However i washed out the pump fully and made sure there was no more oil left inside it, did a 70% water change and everything seemed fine, no film or bubbles.

The discus are starting to eat much better now, im sticking to frozen cubes of brine shrimp before i do my water change and tetra discus pellets in the evening.

Everything is running smoothly now and it only takes me 6 minutes to do a 75% water change now which is great.

Thank you to everyone that has offered advice so far especially ryan and phil !
-Ross

Good to hear. That's the key is making your wcs as painless as possible. If it's less of a chore it's easier to keep up with. Keep up with in routine and you should see nice results.

Not thing I am very glad I did was take monthly or even weekly pics of your fish for reference

[Phillydubs]

Glad to hear you got things under control. That would have been a real shotty way to loose some nice fish!!

Just goes to show just how tricky this hobby can be. You think you have it all covered and boom.

Never hesitate to ask a question here. Or get a solid group of fishy friends so you can text at will. God knows I annoy my fish buds w all my drama but hey what are friends for !!! Lol

[Ryan925]

Glad to hear you got things under control. That would have been a real shotty way to loose some nice fish!!

Just goes to show just how tricky this hobby can be. You think you have it all covered and boom.

Never hesitate to ask a question here. Or get a solid group of fishy friends so you can text at will. God knows I annoy my fish buds w all my drama but hey what are friends for !!! Lol

Ain't that the truth babygirl

[Rosskeegan24]

Bad news today unfortunatly, i noticed it yesterday and when i woke up this morning it hadnt changed, one (possibly 2) of the discus is turning dark in colour, very dark, it is fairly constant, other than that it has no other symptoms that i can see of, it is still swimming fine and eating healthily. The poop that collects at the bottom of the tank before i siphon it out looks fine, it is dark and solid.
Without jumping to conclusions i think it may be parasites, and if it is i would like to treat the whole tank for them as they all came in in one batch.
I have been keeping up with my 60-75% water changes daily feeding one cube of brine shrimp and siphoning out the leftovers(not much) .

I wanted to post it here first before i posted it in the emergency room section as people who are following along with the thread know whats going on in the tank.

I have just done a waterchange so i will test the water in the morning and let you guys know what the parameters are.

If anyone has any advice or questions about the discus i would be more than happy to hear/ answer them.

Here are some pictures of the affected fish.113235 113236

[Phillydubs]

What is the current water change regiment.

Did you remove all the carbon and whatever else you added after the oil mishap? Any white poop clamped fins? Do you notice the fish getting bullied or hiding ? You are aging your water correct ?

[Ryan925]

Bad news today unfortunatly, i noticed it yesterday and when i woke up this morning it hadnt changed, one (possibly 2) of the discus is turning dark in colour, very dark, it is fairly constant, other than that it has no other symptoms that i can see of, it is still swimming fine and eating healthily. The poop that collects at the bottom of the tank before i siphon it out looks fine, it is dark and solid.
Without jumping to conclusions i think it may be parasites, and if it is i would like to treat the whole tank for them as they all came in in one batch.
I have been keeping up with my 60-75% water changes daily feeding one cube of brine shrimp and siphoning out the leftovers(not much) .

I wanted to post it here first before i posted it in the emergency room section as people who are following along with the thread know whats going on in the tank.

I have just done a waterchange so i will test the water in the morning and let you guys know what the parameters are.

If anyone has any advice or questions about the discus i would be more than happy to hear/ answer them.

Here are some pictures of the affected fish.113235 113236

Do you have more info on exactly where they came from and how they got there? Direct from Thailand to your LFS? Have you seen other more mature fish from this source ?

I know here in the US the quality importers here put their new arrivals through a qt process including medicating and deworming etc. Well I know at least Kenny does and I'm sure others do as well. That way they can be sure you receive healthy fish.

Also here in the US LFS often receive lesser quality fish and could potentially be ill or have compromised immune systems.

You may need to run through a full process to properly qt, deworm etc. Hopefully some of the more seasoned members can help you through that or maybe I'm way off here. Just throwing our ideas

[Rosskeegan24]

What is the current water change regiment.

Did you remove all the carbon and whatever else you added after the oil mishap? Any white poop clamped fins? Do you notice the fish getting bullied or hiding ? You are aging your water correct ?

I currently do 75-80% daily
The carbon is in a small filter, ill replace it with new carbon when i get home.
No clamped fins, poop looks normal, dark and solid.
The fish is acting aggresivly
Thinking its parasites/worms since i got it staright from the supplier with no quarantine

[Rosskeegan24]

Do you have more info on exactly where they came from and how they got there? Direct from Thailand to your LFS? Have you seen other more mature fish from this source ?

I know here in the US the quality importers here put their new arrivals through a qt process including medicating and deworming etc. Well I know at least Kenny does and I'm sure others do as well. That way they can be sure you receive healthy fish.

Also here in the US LFS often receive lesser quality fish and could potentially be ill or have compromised immune systems.

You may need to run through a full process to properly qt, deworm etc. Hopefully some of the more seasoned members can help you through that or maybe I'm way off here. Just throwing our ideas

Thanks, im researching what medications to use and what importers use to fully quarantine their fish; dewormers, other medication. Thanks for the advice ! Ill see if i can contact any importers to see what they use.

[Phillydubs]

I would not use carbon at all and keep up with your daily water changes. You could find or use a dewormer if you believe or know they were not. You would need to use a mixture of methods to get all worms which I learned myself, there isn't really an all in one.

Have you tried something simple like salt?

[Rosskeegan24]

UPDATE
I was watching the discus a few minutes ago and 2 of them had seizures 30 seconds apart, thrashing around in the tank and the floating lifelessly in the tank for 10-15 seconds before slowly coming around.
Im thinking faulty heater/electrical current in the water ?
It was a superfish 300 watt heater
Luckily i have a spare jewel 200 watt heater i can throw in.
Could this be the cause of the discus turning black ?
-Ross

[Phillydubs]

It is totally poissible, switch them and see asap!!

[Ryan925]

UPDATE
I was watching the discus a few minutes ago and 2 of them had seizures 30 seconds apart, thrashing around in the tank and the floating lifelessly in the tank for 10-15 seconds before slowly coming around.
Im thinking faulty heater/electrical current in the water ?
It was a superfish 300 watt heater
Luckily i have a spare jewel 200 watt heater i can throw in.
Could this be the cause of the discus turning black ?
-Ross

Turning dark is due to stress. Could be anything. Best you could do is start ruling things out

[joenaustin04]

Are you still working on the scorpions? Those fish ought to be nice sized by now at roughly 18 months old now.......