Treating for Hex and still seeing white.clear stringy poo.

[Bizarro252]

Hello everyone - full details here but I have a quick general question

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?130210-First-timer-at-treating-fish-might-be-dealing-with-Hex

I have been treating 6 days with metroplex - just got in the 'good' stuff today (pure) - and dosed with that after a 60% WC at ~300mg per 10gal. I am still seeing stringy poo however, in fact 4 of the 6 fish right now have what looks like a thin clear/white thread trailing out of them. Not nearly as large and segmented looking as it did before treatment...

I am wondering if it is 'normal' to see this during treatment? Mostly worried that the metroplex I was dosing (about 200mg per 10 gal... 10 of the scoops into a 55gal tank...which is really like 47 gal of water...) was not strong enough and I may have to only consider the time of treatment with this new, pure stuff.... uhhhhgggg First timer here treating fish so I am a bit paniced....

I am also dosing 1 tablespoon of epsom salt per 10 gal and have been for 4 days now.

They are eating, very slowly... but eating.

Thanks

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Bizarro252, the recommended daily treatment for pure metro is 500mg per 10 gallons after a large daily water change for a 10 to 12 day treatment. You treat for the volume of water in the tank vs the volume of water you replaced. You might be able to calculate how much is in 10 scoops plus factor in the percentage of metro in metroplex.

It does sound like the metroplex is having an effect. I think you should switch to the "good stuff" and continue the treatment for another 5 to 7 days. Still seeing white/clear poop is not unusual. I would also suggest raising the temp to about 88/90 and leave it there until the fish are eating well and pooping dark. The elevated temp would continue even if you stopped the metro treatment after 5 or 7 days. I do think your two threads should be merged so all the info is in one place.
Pat

[Bizarro252]

Thanks Pat - I have read allllll sorts of conflicting dosing information, from the packaging (the lowest at 125mg/10 gal) to 500mg per 10 gal from folks like you and Kenny. Whew - so many answers haha. I ended up going with ~340 (after accounting for true volume of the tank, not 55gal) of the new 'good' pure stuff per 10 gal. Right in the middle of the road.

Here are some pics from this AM, as you can see very long strings... They sure seem to have perked up though.

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[Bizarro252]

Well - 48 hours after concluding the dosage the Marlboro still has record setting stringy poo. I was fortunate enough to get in contact with Kenny and this doesnt sound 'normal' - maybe a little but nothing like this (see a pic from today below) - SO - going with his recommended regimen - 92F and 500mg Metro per 10 gal. I should be able to swing dosing every 8-10 hours so will plan on 3-5 days.


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[Disgirl]

I recently had to treat angels for Hex. It wasn't until day 12 that the fish began eating and acting normal again. 500 mg. per day, 90% water change daily and temp of 88. Good luck with yours.

[bluelagoon]

yeah.Much longer than 5 days.My container says up to 3 weeks,but I had luck with 14 days in the past.Plus dose higher than the container says,like mentioned.

[Bizarro252]

I was shooting for 5 days due to already dosing them for 9 days (the first 4 of those I was on a much lower dose, using Seachem Metroplex, so about 150mg/10 gal) then I got pure stuff and dosed at 300mg/10 gal for 5 days at 88F - saw the continued stringy poop and started dosing again about 36 hours after I stopped - this time at 500mg/10gal and at 92F.

Kenny's directions state 5-7 days if you are dosing every 8 hours at 500mg/10gal, I am not hitting that - I am hitting every 12 hours... so I guess I maybe should do 7 days - just a little weary since they were being dosed (at a lower dose but still) for 9 days prior before I started actually dosing them at this level.

Uhg - complicated... I am on their 4th dose at 500mg/10gal this AM and still seeing stringy poo, only out of one, the same one from before. Others poo looks normal. All had stringy poo before I started treatment so perhaps the one just has it worse than the others.

[Pardal]

Metronidazole is relative safe , so the time duration doesn't have to be strictly , one can extend a little longer with reason, until start eating , black poop is observe .

[Bizarro252]

All but one seem to be better :) Come on Marlboro - you can do it!!

[Discluv]

Sorry to hear you are dealing with hexamita, Bizarro. It sounds like they are on the mend though!

[Bizarro252]

Thank you Discluv and Pardal. Good news is I got a nice Christmas present :) The Marlboro (the last one that was not eating and have the stringy poop for the longest) started eating, this morning he came right up to the surface with the others and started eating right when I put the food in the water - WHEW!

I got 3X doses per day (every 8 hours) Sunday and Monday since I had the time. I dosed again this AM and plan to again tonight as well as see what Kenny says on if I should stop or continue. I am assuming like any antibotic you want to keep going for at least a bit once they look well.

Overall here was the history of the dosing...

12/9 - 12/12
2X daily of Seachem MetroPlex 2 scoops (125mg each, 70% pure) per 10 gal at 86F. 30% WC before each dose.
Noticed about half start improving

12/13 - 12/17
2X per day of pure Metro at 300mg/10 gal @88F 30% WC before each dose.
All but one improved, after stopping the Marlboro stopped eating and the stringy poop came back overnight.

12/19 - Now
Talked with Kenny and began dosing at his recommended rates/temp
Every 8-12 hours 500mg/10gal @92F 30% WC before each dose.

12/24 Marlboro started eating again, still stringy poop.
12/25 Marlboro eating better (out of the water column vs off the bottom only), not stringy poop, but 'long/thin' vs the pellets the others are doing.. but its now dark, not white/clear.

[Neptune]

I just dealt with a stubborn Hex outbreak. It took a pretty strong dosing for about 10 days to knock it back.
If you start reading around there are some mentions of HEX becoming more and more stubborn in the hobby.
I have no real data to report on this but it has been mentioned.

[Bizarro252]

Sure seems accurate to me - double dose didnt touch it in the one fish, the others got better though, 500mg seems to finally be knocking it down. The pure Metro I got from Everything Aquatic lists the max dose (for stubborn cases) at 1tsp per 20gal, which would be ~1800mg/10 gal I think - whew...hope I dont need to go that high! :)

[Bizarro252]

Update:
Did 7 days of 2-3 doses per day (every 8 or 12 hours depending on what I could manage), the one fish that still had the stringy white/clear poo started turning out dark poos day 5, he started eating again that same day.

He is still eating very well - dealing with one last issue which is a different one that has swollen gills on his left side. I gave them a couple days after the Metro was done to relax and started prazipro today just incase he has flukes causing that, if not its probably not that bad of an idea to hit them with some prazi after the hex treatment anyways (at least IMO) to ensure if they also had worms, etc I get those too...

Will post a video of the gills, the very tips of them are whitish and just appear swollen, to the point that side doesnt close all the way...

I want to keep up daily water changes to keep quality up, prazipro says to leave it in for 5-7 days - just want to double check there is no reason I cant do water changes and replace the prazi dose that corresponds to the water I changed - right?! :)


Thanks!


Vid:
https://vimeo.com/249196394


Pic:
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[Willie]

Metro has ALWAYS worked for me as long as the treatment regimen is followed clearly. The key is to give your discus some time to recover after treatment. The disease causes inflammation of the intestine, so it's common for fish not to resume eating even after they're "cured". I would recommend a rest interval (at least a week?) before treating for something else.

As for Prazi, it has NEVER worked for me. Fortunately, adult discus tend to handle gill flukes well. The only problem I've ran into is gill flukes in the fry. I've had a breeding pair in Prazi (and Prazi Pro) while they spawned, kept the dosage up while the spawn hatches into wrigglers. Still, the fry developed gill flukes!

Willie

[Jenene]

It's good to see things finally turning around Matt. I know that was tough on you especially after watching your one fish die from the probable Whirling Disease.

It is really odd to me because from the very start you have always been meticulous about your water and general care of all of your fish. It is very impressive to see your dedication to doing things properly and you really went all out seeking out the correct help and medications to get them on the mend. It just goes to show you that anyone can get hit with an illness at any time. No one is immune.

Finally turning things around...Nicely done Matt. Hope the gill clears up now and you can just enjoy them. :)

[Bizarro252]

Thank you Jenene! At least I have someone to vouch for me not being one of those folks who does monthly WCs and wonders why their fish are always sick! I set out to do this thing right! :)

Willie,
Good to know - Metro did work for me, but not until I actually went up to the 500mg per 10 gal. I was basically doubling the dose on the package before that and it still didn't touch it. I think 500mg is an excellent suggestion now having seen it work, and less of a dose fail to work on all of the Discus (4 of 5 did get better on 300mg/10 gal). The metro I got from 'Everything Aquatic', which says it is pure, also stated that for 'stubborn' cases you can dose up to 1tsp per 20 gal, which would be 1,550mg/10 gal! So apparently its pretty safe stuff.

On the Prazi - Kenny took a gander at my picture and vid of the gill and thinks its not anything to do with flukes, but just a flared gill that he likely always had or was just inflamed from irritation (maybe the meds, unsure..) I will keep an eye on it but since I am already half through my dose of prazi I will just finish it off. If I dont notice any difference in a week or so I will probably not do a follow up dose since it likely was not doing anything. Who knows tho, maybe they have a worm that I am treating without knowing it - luckily Prazi is also safe.

How does that happen with your fry? ***! I mean, where do they even come from? Are they getting it from the parents/tank and it just hits them harder because they are so small?

[Second Hand Pat]

Matt, I would suggest no meds for now and see if a couple weeks of clean water will help to mend those gills. Take a watch and see approach. :)
Pat

[Bizarro252]

Matt, I would suggest no meds for now and see if a couple weeks of clean water will help to mend those gills. Take a watch and see approach. :)
Pat

Thanks Pat - That is the plan (once I finish the Prazi treatment, already on day 4 so just going to finish it out) I was more concerned about the white tips than the swelling - no changes so far so I think I just noticed it more from observing so closely, I know his gill cover on that side never really fully closed flat - maybe it looked like this forever and I just stared at it to long...:p

[Kwiege]

So can you run cannister or other normal filtration systems with the metro treatments?

[LizStreithorst]

I've have treated mostly with sponge filters but I would be comfortable treating my display tank with a canister. I do run the old Magnum 250's with the micron filter on most of my tanks. I always take out the micron cartridge if I have to treat a tank with any medication. If you're concerned about metro harming your biological filtration, it does not.

[Kwiege]

Thank you for the info!!