Mom Seeking Answers to MANY questions....are we in over our head?

[discustip]

Hello...and thank you for taking the time to read my questions. My son is almost 11 years old and has autism. His obsession is fish and this year, has been the discus fish. He got into fish about a year ago, purchased a tank and filled it with Cichlids. It was a LOT of trial by error, and realized that having a tank of aggressive fish was not the best decision. He did NOT do his homework. (nor did I!) He decided back in April, to read, watch, listen and observe everything he can about discus fish. He is not the best at explaining things, so I have questions that I am hoping to get answered before we purchase some discus. For Christmas, he was given a brand new 60 gallon Petsmart brand tank with LED lights. Our plan is to fill it up with water from the hose and let it sit for a few weeks to build good bacteria. He will be adding two heaters. One 200 watt and one 300 watt on either side. (this way he has backup in case one fails). He plans to go bare bottom, but wants decor like fake plants and some driftwood. Here are my questions:

He received a double sponge filter. It will get cycled through with the new water and stay on while we build bacteria. Is there anything else that is needed? Do I really just squeeze the sponges to clean them? Wouldn't that be putting the poop/food back into the water?

Heater: Are two heaters really necessary? (in case one fails?)

He wants to add some plants/fake driftwood from his old tank. Some of the old fish caught a disease. I am cautious to add these to the new tank. Is there a proper way to clean them or is it better to start fresh? Is real driftwood better than the fake plastic stuff?

Can his common Pleco go into the tank with this discus? He says no...(not the common one)...I just want to double check.

His tank is 60 gallons. (more tall then wide) He says 5-2.5' discus and 2 angel fish will fit. Is that too much or too risky at one time?

He wants to order from either Live Aquaria or Hans Discus USA. Are these the best place for good quality discus?

Is there a cheat cheat that shows what the water levels should be? I am trying to piece together correct water temp/nitrate/PH/Ammonia levels and different sites have different info. I just need basics info to get me through each testing.

Is it OK to use water from the sink when doing water changes? I know to use water conditioner/stress coat. I am aware that I will be doing 30% water changes every few days and siphoning the junk off the bottom of the tank daily.

Is my water bill going to go sky high with all these water changes? lol! I feel like I am going to be taking care of a newborn baby!!

What am I missing? He wants to order in a few weeks once the water is ready.....I want to make sure everything is correct before he spends $200 of his money for fish. I don't want him set up for failure. Discus are truly a beautiful fish, but I am getting nervous that I will be biting off more than I can chew with three young kids, one with autism, and our life. I don't want to be a slave to a fish tank.

Any advice would be helpful and appreciated.

[Kyla]

First thing I would recommend d is to watch this video with him:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?122038-Are-you-new-to-discus-WATCH-THIS-VIDEO!

Are you cycling the tank with pure ammonia? And if you aren't sure what I mean I would recommend to research how to "cycle a tank with ammonia" - there should be lots of posts about this on Simply.

I am very hesitant about your plan... I've been fishkeeping since I was 12 and these were the hardest fish for me to keep. There are lots of concerns raised from your plan... 30% w/c with such small discus, not aging the water in a barrel before water changes being two big ones. The video will help get some base info, and then read thru the stickies in the beginner section also.

Have you ph tested your aged water? This is where you test the ph of your tap water immediately from the tap, then fill a bucket with the same tap water and aerate it with an air stone for a day, and retest it after aeration to see if the ph has changed - it is important to know if the ph changes because this will help determine if you need to age your water in a barrel before water changes.

Hans is great, I would buy from him myself - any of the sponsors here at Simply are good choices to buy from. Hans is a sponsor. I personally don't know about live aquaria so I can't comment on them.

2 Heaters is fine - I would recommend inkbird heater controllers to prevent the tank from overheating if one of them breaks and sticks in the ON position.

I wouldnt recommend to mix angels. Some people do, but it is riskier than just going with discus because they are more aggressive feeders and I have found they bullied my discus when I tried it myself. I love a tank of angels, which are much hardier than discus and easier to keep... I would lean towards a tank of just angels for your son if he had to choose between the two species... esp because you are mentioning time commitment concerns... angels would be much more forgiving on the water-changing front.

There is more I have to add but I have company coming, there will def be others with more advice as well, but I'll try to follow up on the post later on to make sure we covered your questions. It is great to hear he is so interested in the hobby at a young age!! That's when I started too, and having a supportive parent like yourself makes a world of difference!! Big hugs to my mom and all the parents out there for letting us curious kids explore hobbies and fill the house with fish tanks lol <3

[Kyla]

Ps do not order the fish yet!!

[Adam S]

Using two heaters is fine, but the point is to use two smaller heaters so you don't boil your fish if one fails and stays ON. Two 150w heaters would be a good place to start depending on room temp. The 300w or 200w alone is probably fine if you don't want to buy more heaters.

By double sponge, do you mean the things with suction cups and two cylindrical sponges on opposite sides of a lift tube (thing bubbles go through)? That's a bit small for a 60; you'd be better off with a couple Azoo #6 sponge filters. Hydro IV sponges and Poret cubes are also good, but the Azoo's are probably your cheapest bet through Drs. Foster and Smith. Alternatively, an Aquaclear 110 would also be a good choice. I rarely clean my sponges (couple times a year in most tanks), but do it in a bucket of tank water if you feel it's necessary. I use tap water, but some have bad experiences with it killing their beneficial bacteria.

Ditch the old stuff altogether. . . but it can be bleached if your son really likes it. Soaking it in 1:19 plain bleach to water for a few hours will kill most anything, but the color might be affected. Rinse really well and let air dry to neutralize the bleach. Just a warning, real driftwood rots and stains the water like tea. The fish like it but you may not.

Ditch the common pleco too.

Don't worry about your tap water. Most places post their info online if you want to know (search "(city) water quality report"), but you will have more issues trying to adjust it than just leaving it alone.

30% is pretty mild, you should have no issues filling directly from the tap.

Water here is ~1/9 of a cent per gallon. Daily 30% water changes from a 60 gallon tank costs about $5 a month.

Honestly, angelfish may be better and it sounds like your son is already interested in them. I don't know enough about discus to compare the two, but angels are tough fish. I've seen fish sold to customers that grew into decent, baseball-sized fish with 20%-30% weekly changes and flake food. Of course, they will grow hand-sized if treated like discus :D.

[BABYJIZAY]

DO NOT ORDER from live aquaria. Hans is very well known and has great discus. There is a section on here for sponsors where you can discover and buy some amazing fish. You do not want to buy discus from just anywhere.

[Kyla]

The reason we dont recommend mixing common plecos with discus is because they have been known to suck on the sides of the discus and cause injuries. They also grow very large... Some plecos can be mixed with discus, such as the bristle nose pleco. Where is this pleco currently living? Are you running other tanks also?

I second the recommendation to soak any items in a bleach+water mix for safety. Cross-contamination from your previous fish tank is a concern, esp if you think there was an illness in that tank. So I would recommend to also soak any nets/rocks/buckets/tools etc so u can start with a clean slate.

What kind of water conditioner do you use? I don't recommend stress coat, I have just not felt it was necessary, and I try to keep my routine as simple as possible - no carbon in my filters either. My fav water conditioner is Seachem prime, used by a lot of keepers here. I use the powdered version which is Seachem Safe, because it lasts and lasts and lasts, but Prime is great for smaller water changes/tanks. Prime & Safe are awesome to have on hand in case of issues with the cycle of the tank because they can neutralize/bind the toxins in the water for a period of time in an emergency. After I bleach my items I also soak them in a water+Safe mix to neutralize any remaining bleach, although most ppl would say the items r prob fine after a good rinse and thorough drying period.
This is the product I'm talking about: http://www.seachem.com/prime.php

Do you have a test kit for ph/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate ? A cycled tank will have 0 ammonia and nitrite, and you will want to aim to keep the nitrate as low as possible - 5 is a good # to aim for, which means LOTS of water changes! Discus can be kept at a fairly wide range of pH, despite coming from water with a very low pH. The main thing to watch is that your pH remains consistent. Consistency of pH is more important than the actual pH (to a degree). If you can do that water ph aging test and let us know the before/after pH that will help us give advice.

A BB tank is fantastic! I am usually trying to convince ppl to go with BB so the fact he wants to start out with BB is a bonus :)

What kind of hose are you using to fill the tank? I've heard that some newer garden hoses can be toxic but I don't know if it's true or not. To be on the safe side I just use the clear tubing from my Python water change system and a drinking-water Safe hose. Can you give us a breakdown of the plan for changing the water exactly? Eg are you using hoses and pumps, or carrying buckets, where is the tap in relation to the tank, is there space for a water aging barrel, what temp is the water entering the tank going to be, etc? Just because water changing is SO important in discus keeping, so the easier you can make this task the more likely you will have success, so the more we know about it the better suggestions we can give.

If he is going with discus I would strongly recommend to save up $ and get the largest discus you can afford... the larger they are the stronger their immune systems will be and the easier it will be to care for them. Small discus are more fragile, need to be fed more often and need more water changes to ensure proper growth. It is more $ up front to get larger discus but it saves a lot of time and effort, lessens the chance of stunting the fish during your first try with discus, and overall will give you a better chance of success.

Are you planning to paint the bottom of the tank? The discus like a solid floor to their tank and can get a bit freaked out by clear glass under them.

What types of food are you planning to feed?

Def give that vid a watch and look into "fishless cycling" threads on this forum. It could take longer than a few weeks to cycle your tank properly and grow enough beneficial bacteria using pure ammonia, so you have some time to make decisions before you purchase any fish. You are off to a great start by researching and this forum is a wealth of info with very supportive folk who want to help you succeed! Good luck, and keep us updated (we love pics!!!)

[Neptune]

First off I think its fantastic that you and your son and attempting to tackle this hobby! My son has had a fish tank in his room since he was born. He is 23 now and is into nano planted tanks. We have a lot of great bonding moments to this day over tanks!


He received a double sponge filter. It will get cycled through with the new water and stay on while we build bacteria. Is there anything else that is needed? Do I really just squeeze the sponges to clean them? Wouldn't that be putting the poop/food back into the water?
You can get by with only sponge filters in 60 gallon tanks. Aquaclear HOB(hang on back) are a good easy choice as well.
You don't squeeze them out in the tank. When you do a WC(water change) save some water in a bucket. Squeeze the filter in the bucket to clean.

Heater: Are two heaters really necessary? (in case one fails?)
It's a good plan.
Keep the temp. Between 80 and 82.

He wants to add some plants/fake driftwood from his old tank. Some of the old fish caught a disease. I am cautious to add these to the new tank. Is there a proper way to clean them or is it better to start fresh? Is real driftwood better than the fake plastic stuff?
I would start with new stuff. Plastic plants are not that expensive. I would not reuse the driftwood. Too hard to sterilize especially if you had a known disease with it.

Can his common Pleco go into the tank with this discus? He says no...(not the common one)...I just want to double check.
Lots of downsides to this and not many upsides:
1. It should be quarantined again before adding to tank.
2. They are big messy poopers.
3. They have been known to suck the sides of discus.

His tank is 60 gallons. (more tall then wide) He says 5-2.5' discus and 2 angel fish will fit. Is that too much or too risky at one time?
I would skip the angels. They will get large as well and take away from the maximum bioload for your tank. In other words, they are taking up tank resources that your discus can use. If they pair up they will stake out part of the tank as well. But 5 discus in a 60 is ok. General rule is 1 discus/10 gals.

He wants to order from either Live Aquaria or Hans Discus USA. Are these the best place for good quality discus?
Hans all the way! Don't even consider Live Aquaria! But the largest size you can afford and buy them all at once if you can.

Is there a cheat cheat that shows what the water levels should be? I am trying to piece together correct water temp/nitrate/PH/Ammonia levels and different sites have different info. I just need basics info to get me through each testing.
pH is not all that important as long as it is stable. It's pH swings that cause issues. My discus routinely lay eggs in 8.0 pH from the tap. They don't hatch but I figure if the adults are laying the pH can't be bothering them.
Ammonia 0!
Nitrate <20 and the lower the better. WC are done to keep it low.

Is it OK to use water from the sink when doing water changes? I know to use water conditioner/stress coat. I am aware that I will be doing 30% water changes every few days and siphoning the junk off the bottom of the tank daily.
Tap water is OK, but the real trick is to AGE it. Let is sit with a heater and aeration for 24 hours before using if you can.

Is my water bill going to go sky high with all these water changes? lol! I feel like I am going to be taking care of a newborn baby!!
YES!

What am I missing? He wants to order in a few weeks once the water is ready.....I want to make sure everything is correct before he spends $200 of his money for fish. I don't want him set up for failure. Discus are truly a beautiful fish, but I am getting nervous that I will be biting off more than I can chew with three young kids, one with autism, and our life. I don't want to be a slave to a fish tank.

Any advice would be helpful and appreciated.

Some general notes:

Discus are not all that different from any aquarium fish. Yes they have a few special requirements but once you adhere to them and learn how to deal with them you can be successful with these fish.
Bare bottom is truly the way to go. It simplifies the care of these fish 1000% percent!
Listen to expert advice from the pros here. The only time I have gotten into trouble with these fish is when I thought I knew more than the pros...(it has never worked in my favor!)
Get the largest fish you can afford and order them all at once. It will get you started on the right foot and be a big leap towards success.

I tried to keep my answers as short and simple as possible to get you started. But in general you sound like you have a good plan in place and are asking the right questions. I think you are well on your way to being successful with this hobby! There are always setbacks in this hobby, but roll with the punches and you will be fine!
Good luck, can't wait to see pictures, you son is going to love these fish!

[discustip]

WOW! This is a lot to take in. OK...we are making adjustments. :) We will be testing the water over the next 24 hours and will report those numbers back to you! My son has between $150 and $200 to spend to start. Are the 3 and 4' a good size to start with? I know we wont plunk all his money into one large expensive fish. He really wants a Dark Angel, but I am leaning more towards the Blue Turquoise, Checkboard, etc. I am hoping he gets more bang for his buck. Can he mix types of discus? Or should he stay with ONE type?
Where does one get paint for the bottom of a fish tank?
We will start the fishless cycling once we have the results from the water test and after the bottom of tank is painted. I am sure we will have more questions. We will watch the video (again) later today! lol! it was many months ago we watched so a refresher is certainly in order.

I cannot thank you all enough for answering our questions. SO So kind of you all to take the time to answer us!

Mom!

[gators111]

You can mix the discus types. Some types are cheaper than others. BUT only buy them from one source, otherwise they could cross contaminate. Also, don't buy any wild imports. They are much more demanding and not for beginners. I would suggest watching a lot of videos on Youtube. The King of DIY has a video from the founder of this forum giving an hour speech on keeping discus. Patience and planning is the key to a successful tank, which unfortunately tends to be in direct contrast to kids with autism/Asperger's.

[discustip]

I am having trouble loading images. We have purchased this double filter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073DZGFW2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

is this one OK?

We also have the following products:
API: Aquarium salt, pH up, pH down, Freshwater master test kit, Omega one Freeze Dried Blood Worms and another canister of brine shrimp.

We are off to our aquarium warehouse (not Petco type place) to grab the paint for the bottom of the tank. Let us know if there is anything else we need. Thanks so much!

[discustip]

One more question: Looked at Amazon for aquarium paint and didn't see any. Hoping the aquarium store has some. Is this something that exist? What am I looking for? Thanks!

[gators111]

Any latex paint from home depot will do. I use cheap spray paint.

[gators111]

Also, the paint goes on the out side of the tank.

[gators111]

Also, go with a lighter color. Avoid black or navy blue. It may be an old wives' tale, but darker colors are believed to enhance peppering in discus.

[two utes]

One more question: Looked at Amazon for aquarium paint and didn't see any. Hoping the aquarium store has some. Is this something that exist? What am I looking for? Thanks!

Welcome to the hobby :) It looks like you are off on a good start, and obtaining lots of good information from here.

I like to use water based paints painted on thin plywood or MDF material and placed on the rear, sides, and bottom of tank where needed. These can be purchased from any hardware store. This method will make it easy to change colors without having to scrape paint off glass. Just wanting to make sure that you know that you do not paint the insides of the tank.

Good luck with your project.

[gators111]

As far as your other products. Keep the freshwater test kit. You'll be using it a lot over the next few months. Also, get a kitchen timer to go with it. Hang on to the salt, if you ever get a case of ich. Trash the ph up and down. You shouldn't be tinkering with your pH until you really understand buffering and pH crashes. You can keep the food, but I doubt the discus will eat it. They can be very finicky eaters. The sponge filter will be okay. Your water just won't be as crystal clear as someone running a canister filter or a sump. But with 5-6 discus that should be plenty enough to house the beneficial bacteria and keep the water looking good for you. Many discus breeders only use sponge filters in their setups, so you will be fine.

[Kyla]

Another paint idea - some ppl have used the spray-on speckled texture paint which is coloured like sand, that way when u r looking at the tank the bottom appears to be sandy even tho its bare bottom. I think there are some threads here showing how this turns out. Def go with a lighter colour to brighten up the discus. I painted mine white, and I don't mind it, but if I could redo it i would try the textured light coloured sand look.

[Kyla]

I agree that it's is wise to avoid using ph up/down products. They can cause ph swings, and consistency is key.

[Kyla]

My favourite food for feeding our discus is freeze dried Australian black worm. The discus like it best, of all the foods I feed, and it is very "clean", meaning it doesn't make a big mess. It is sold on this forum (there might be a banner across the top where u can click). I buy the little cubes and squish them under the water against the glass where they stick and the discus attack them. I have more recently also set up a little Eheim Automatic Feeder to feed the discus loose FDBW several times a day, so they eat bits of food while I'm away from the house and they really seem to like grazing on it occasionally as well.

[Ryan925]

My favourite food for feeding our discus is freeze dried Australian black worm. The discus like it best, of all the foods I feed, and it is very "clean", meaning it doesn't make a big mess. It is sold on this forum (there might be a banner across the top where u can click). I buy the little cubes and squish them under the water against the glass where they stick and the discus attack them. I have more recently also set up a little Eheim Automatic Feeder to feed the discus loose FDBW several times a day, so they eat bits of food while I'm away from the house and they really seem to like grazing on it occasionally as well.

+1

There are lots of good quality high protein foods available, many of which are available here through the forum owner. As Kyla says there is usually a banner but if not it's aquaticsuppliers

The freeze dried black worms are great. I've also used the bio gold and the freeze dried black worms pellets. Most recently I have been feeding the discus chow which is great for the autofeeder as Kyla suggested. One word of advice is start off slowly with new foods as discus can be resistant to new foods. Patients and persistence is key. If you are going to feed pellets start very slow it's really easy to feed far too much

There is lots of good info here. The more you can learn prior to your purchase the better chance of success you will have. Discus are not as difficult as they may seem but you do need to be well informed of their needs.

Stable water, quality food and good tank maintenance/lots of clean water will serve you well

[discustip]

Thank you again all for your replies.
Our son has had some behavior issues and patience issues, so the brakes have been hit on discus. In the meantime, the water is in the tank and we will continue to research until behavior changes.

I’m super confused on the whole filter thing. So, we purchased another air pump and a true sponge filter that sits in the bottom of the tank. ( we will use the hang on double filter and then the sponge filter). The filtration that Kyla suggested was $79. Is that truly necessary or can I use the carbon filter from our old tank? Is the end result to eventually get a canister? I’ve been watching the videos and I see lots of canisters and what I believe to be sumps.

I am elated you all clarified the paint. We went to the aquatics store m, asked about paint and they looked at us like we had 7 eyes! So no paint. We started putting water in the tank when we started reading replies back. Read about the lore of possible peppering with black grounds. So, we were able to wedge sheets of bright green construction paper under most of the tank. Thanks for the heads up!!!

Food wise, we are returning all that was purchased at Christmas. My son found a high protein dry food that was was endorsed by hans discus. My son nearly had a coronary as Hans is GOD in his mind! Lol! So he bought that....we we will order the worms when we get the fish.

So now we wait and watch videos and continue our research. And I still need to do the water tests on tap water. :).

[Altum Nut]

Hello Mom and applaud you working with your son. All this information can be overwhelming so I encourage you to take your time...keep asking questions and please try your very best to hold back on any info your LFS throws at you.
Your son is right where many would consider Hans a God. We refer him to our Discus Pimp.
I will only say that in this hobby your most expensive purchase will be to start with quality Discus from a reputable source so if your choice to go with Discus Hans your off to a good start. Besides a glass box...everything else is to ensure your prized Discus remain happy and healthy.
Water quality is key and is something you want to monitor daily for stability.

Please keep us informed if your confused about anything your not clear on...mistakes are expensive and in most cases are not reversible.

Cheers,
...Ralph

[Kyla]

I think someone else had recommended the aquaclear hang-on-back filter. I have used these myself and they are very easy to operate and to clean. You just pull the sponge and bioballs out and rinse them under a bucket of tank water and plop them back in the filter - fast and efficient, and they keep your water nice and clear. I love them as a staple beginner filter and when I help new aquarists set up new tanks they are usually the ones I recommend, just because they are so simple and ensure frequent cleaning won't be a hassle.

But I think you already purchased sponge filters? I have never used sponge filters but many ppl on this forum do. They are quite simple too, and I think someone previously in the string said they should work in your size tank, but the clarity of your tank water might be sub par? There is no harm in using them to start off and see if they are good enough for your liking. If you want more filtration later you can always add an aquaclear HOB at that point.

I personally run a huge fluval FX5 canister filter on my 180gal. I love this filter but it is not pleasant to clean. It is very heavy and has to be dragged out from under the tank and opened up and cleaned out, which takes much more time than your sponge filters would, or an aquaclear HOB would. The draw back with canisters is that although they clean all the particulate matter out of the tank and keep it nice and clear, that debris and waste and gunk sits unseen in the filter (out of sight out of mind) so ppl tend to slack off on cleaning them out, which negatively affects the water quality. So I do recommend them, but with those warnings.

[Kyla]

I think that's a smart move on switching to Hans' food. I was worried you might have trouble getting the discus to eat. Hans rocks! And the fish he sells are top quality. Buying sickly discus from local pet stores or poor suppliers is how a lot of ppl start off on the wrong foot with discus, so it's a really good idea to get them from Hans.

Others have mentioned this but it I will reiterate it - get all your discus at the same time. That way you won't encounter issues with cross contamination if you add 3 and then a couple months later try to add 2 more. And there won't be as much bullying amongst the larger group of discus as there would if u just added a few at a time. If this means he needs to save up more $, do extra chores, wait for his bday $ etc, it's a good plan to wait and do it all at once and also get the largest discus you can afford.

[Bizarro252]

We also have the following products:
API: Aquarium salt, pH up, pH down, Freshwater master test kit, Omega one Freeze Dried Blood Worms and another canister of brine shrimp.

Toss/Sell the PH Up/Down products, as others has said consistency is key :)

Hans is awesome, him and Kenny would be my choices but then again those are the only two I have any experience with and both are great - IMO, for the beginner, and one of the reasons I went with Hans for my first fish was that you can always add more from him without to much worry (not the case if you mix from different sources) and he always has stock, so no waiting for your preferences to come in - nice if you are impatient like me :)

I went with 3" fish for my first Discus - it was very rewarding but a lot of work. If he is willing to commit to daily care of these guys he will be OK with 3", the larger the fish you go with the less 'touchy' they are (harder to screw up).

Buy a Python for water changes, unless you are using pumps. WAY better than buckets!!

Regarding Hans' food, if you mean the Cobalt flakes/pellets then agree, they are great, my fish take them well. Just FYI though if you were talking about his frozen food, he does sell it, but it cant be shipped with the fish and shipping gets spendy - IMO unless you are close enough to get it from him I would make your own (he even posted his recipe on here because he is a BOSS)

[discustip]

This is DiscusTip, not mom. How does my tank look? Think it's good for discus?

[discustip]

Why is my photo upside down? I've tried it twice.

[Altum Nut]

Why is my photo upside down? I've tried it twice.

Hello discustip...I fixed photo for you.
I think your tank looks great...I would recommend setting sponge filters further near the bottom and heater only if fully submersible resting parallel on bottom which will distribute heat better.

...Ralph

[Kyla]

The tank looks great!! I love the wood. You are off to a great start, with a set up better suited to discus than I had when I got my first discus. I agree that if your cord is long enough the heater would distribute heat more efficiently if it was deeper in the tank and angled horizonzontally.

[Jenene]

You have a lot of great people helping you out here. I am late to the game but wanted to welcome you and your son to the hobby of keeping discus. There is just nothing like them. I know it is overwhelming but you have come to the perfect place for advice and support.

I also wanted to commend you on your determination to provide your son with something he has a passion for. I work with very young children with Autism in a primary school and I see those passions forming early on. I know that they become a very important focal point in their lives and learning as much as they can gives them an opportunity to grow confidence and share their beloved passion with others. The skills that arise from these passions will continue build and benefit them for the rest of their lives. What a gift you are giving him. So much more than just fish!

I look forward to following your progress. You have a solid community behind you here. Enjoy the journey!

[Phillydubs]

Does your son have a way of earning money? If so my biggest piece of advice would be to save save and go with 5” fish if possible. I know the lore of hans and I feel the same as your son but you will thank us later when he’s happy and his fish are healthy. 3” fish are still fragile and growing and with your time constraints and water change ability you may face issues and will spend more time in the disease forum or watching fish wasting away then enjoying them.

I don’t want to scare you but small discus need a lot of care feedings and water changes to grow or you end up with weird looking fish or sick fish.

The ph test is a must. Please post your results here and we can help you.

That sponge looks decent and could be ok. An aqua clear would be a wise investment.

Do you have the ability or a way/place to age water if need be!

Again. Save save save. Or maybe help him? Front him a years worth of birthday or Xmas presents for his passion? Let him earn it by helping you? I’d hate to see him plink town $200 on some juviss to have it go wrong and see him bail.

[discustip]

How big would you buy your discus? 4" is to much money to buy. would 2 3" discus be ok to start off with. then buy more 3" discus in April. Is one 4" ok to get ? I know more then one discus. just it's so expensive. Is there any coupon codes for discus Hans. ---from Discustip

[discustip]

I also can get 3 2.5" discus. but how Many water changes will that be a day? I'm now at $155.this is Discustip.

[discustip]

Hey Discustip...It's Mom! Let's stop posting, please! :) You need to do this right and take your time. Listen and understand what these people are telling you. TAKE YOUR TIME....EARN more money by hard work and buy the BIGGEST discus you can right from the start! Start reading posts from other boards, learn more and be patient! It is FUN to learn all the right things about these fish...you'll be an expert in no time!

You got this, kiddo! You can do this right!!! (I won't let you fail at this!) Love you, Buddy!

[Phillydubs]

You have a great mom Listen to her !

You want at least 5 discus and get them all at once. You can do 6-7 discus but adding at different times is not a good idea.

Minimum I’d recommend is 4” and you want them all the same size.

Save your money and work hard. It will be worth it in the end.

I’ve seen far too many experienced aquarists fail miserably with 2-3” fish.

You are also not factoring in the cost to grow them. Besides your time. They need a ton more food which isn’t free. Do the math and you will see why I am saying what I am.

[sanjay21]

Here is my experience with Discus from Hans at size 2"

Water Changes: I started growing them(6 discus) out in 60 gallon tank with daily 40% water change and one big water change over the weekend.

Filtration: Two individual sponge filters and Aqua clear HOB filter.

Aging the water: No, I use straight tap water (but aging is definitely helpful)

Feeding: I feed 5 - 6 times a day. Beef Heart (twice), Tetra Bits(once), Flake food (once) and FDBW (once)

My water Ph: 7.6 ( Like everyone mentioned I will not alter the ph with chemicals)

Number of Discus to buy: If you ware planning to add 2"-3" discus. Minimum group is 5, this will make them secure.

Tank: Bare bottom tank is the best. Yes, you can have some fake plants and wood if you like.

Please do not be scared that everyone is suggesting you to go with larger Discus. They are only trying to make it easy for you. Do the above schedules like I did with smaller ones and your son will have great time watching them grow. Smaller Discus needs more care than bigger ones, but 30mins a day for water changes shouldn't be too hard I hope :)

Biggest tip: Buy all the fish at the same time.

[Phillydubs]

Sanjay - while sound advice. I believe the issue is that they were only hoping or able to do 30% changes every few days

Which would not bode well for your template

[Kyla]

Sanjay21 is right, our concern is coming from a place of fear that you won't be successful with smaller fish. I tried it, and failed, because I did not do things right. I had substrate in the tank and I slacked on water changes and it was a rough go... water changes every day is easy to commit to in theory, but life can get in the way, and skipping days or slacking on the maintenance even for a little while can be costly :/

[sanjay21]

Sanjay - while sound advice. I believe the issue is that they were only hoping or able to do 30% changes every few days

Which would not bode well for your template

Sorry, I might have missed that line.

With 30% water change every few days, I do not recommend Discus that small..

[Phillydubs]

Let’s see their ph test. Maybe they will get lucky and be able to use prime treated tap. Hook up a python and let the fresh water flow

If that’s the case with a basic B.B. set up as they have they could be diligent and try the smaller guys

[jeep]

I ordered some Santarums from Hans. They are a more traditional wild type in appearance and were some of my all time favorites!

I would not recommend buying from a retail outlet that is not dedicated to discus.

Maybe I missed something in this thread, but please do not buy Angel Fish (or any other fish) at the same time you order discus unless you have a separate QT area and equipment and plan on a lengthy QT period, especially if your other fish come from a store.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

This is a nice, fun thread to read:) Good luck discustip!

[discustip]

This is Discustip not mom ! Ok so I talked to mom and she sayed she is willing to do daily w/c so what % of water changes should we do for 2.5" discus I can only afford 4 of them so what % of w/c should we do for 4 baby discus? Ps I can not afford huge discus in a month. I'm at $155 so how do I get to $470 in a month. I'm getting baby discus. I know to feed them 4 times daily and do big w/c daily.

[discustip]

Oh discustip....mom here again: work hard, do chores and save your money. Then you can get bigger fish.

[discustip]

No mom I can not get any bigger then 2.5" do you
Know how much money I need for 4" 95$ a peace pluse shipping how do I get from $155 to $470 my parents won't even front me birthday money. How do I get that much money when we dont even have a way for me to make money.

[LizStreithorst]

Somebody mentioned this on page one, I believe...Angels would be an excellent choice. They don't require the dedication that discus do well. I have both and although I do at least 30% WC daily on both the Discus tanks and Angel tanks in the fish room I do only 50% weekly on my 125 gallon display tank at my shop and there are Angels in it that are older than dirt and still spawn.

I know that your heart is set on Discus but if you start with 2 1/2" fish with no previous experience you are setting yourself up for disappointment. There are many beautiful strains of Angelfish. I think that you decided on Discus because they are referred to as the king of the aquarium and are the most time intensive fish to keep, and you want a challenge, and from what I know about autism once you become obsessed the obsession is very strong and you will ignore what I'm saying.

Just so you know, I started with Discus. I was 45 years old and could afford to buy adult fish. I read everything I could get my hands on (there is no better resourse than Simply Discus) and I still made mistakes. My fish survived because they were adults.

[discustip]

Thank you!!!!! This exactly! Mom here....and I’m not going to let him spend all his money and watch it literally go down the drain. Do it right or do it twice. And in this case, doing it twice means more money spent!!!!
Thanks for the reply! Adults make mistakes too.

[LizStreithorst]

You don't want him to fail on his first try. It would but him in a bad mood for a long time. It will be hard for you to make him understand that he will not be settling for a second choice fish. As I said, I have both. All things considered my Angelfish are a lot more fun.

[Kyla]

100% agree with Liz. Starting off right is key. I really love a tank of angels, which can be just as stunning as a tank of discus, but cheaper and easier to maintain. To see what I mean, check out Joey's AMAZING platinum angelfish tank in his aquarium gallery: https://youtu.be/cuU1BJ0H5uY
And here's another vid after they have settled in a bit,
Incredible colour contrast and shimmer! (Fast forward to 7:07mins in the vid to see the angels) https://youtu.be/uDc5-jkRqGo

And if you have your heart set on discus, my advice is to be patient and wait until you have a lot more funds to purchase larger fish. When my step daughter was trying to save up $ for an iPod she cleaned out our friend's vehicles, weeded gardens, raked leaves and cleared snow from our neighbours yards and front walkways. There are lots of "side hussles" you can do to make extra $. As long as your parents are involved (eg for safety if going door to door at neighbors' homes etc) you can think outside the box and you'd be surprised how much people love to help a kid with entrepreneurial spirit!! Our step daughter raised over $100 selling toys and clothes and pop and baked goods and little beaded salamanders at a yard sale a couple years ago! It can be fun to save up $ creatively :)

[adrian31@outlook.com]

You don't want him to fail on his first try. It would but him in a bad mood for a long time. It will be hard for you to make him understand that he will not be settling for a second choice fish. As I said, I have both. All things considered my Angelfish are a lot more fun.

I've had Discus only in my 180gal tank for over a year now and for about half that time I keep thinking about how nice it would be to get Angelfish. I've been more or less bored with just Discus only, and the constant work (WC & tank cleaning maintenance) is so much, it's mind boggling to non-Discus keepers. Finally, about two weeks ago I got six Angelfish to put in, so far so good. Love the Angelfish, they are pretty and are so active & interesting. Not to mention require so much less work to thrive.

[discustip]

Wow....mom and discustip here together.....I think we are making some headway! Tip is willing to hold off on getting the discus so he can wet his feet with angels. He is mentioning his other favorite fish ( flower horn cichlid) but mom thinks having one fish in a 60 gallon tank is not a good idea.

So as we turn our attention to angel, ( thank God!), can you offer resources to purchase them with the best variety and greatest health? How many can go into a 60 gallon? Same food as discus? Any great online resources for angels?

God bless you all for sticking with us during this time of learning!!! Seriously...you’re all more helpful than you know!!! Can’t wait to show you in a few weeks what he gets!!!!

[guggas]

Liz that posted above breeds and sells some nice angels. I don't have any but if I was going to get some I would order from her.

[Willie]

Liz that posted above breeds and sells some nice angels. I don't have any but if I was going to get some I would order from her.

Me too. Her half blacks are of exceptional quality.

Willie

[LizStreithorst]

I am a hobbyist breeder. I am not commercial. I work to support the fish, not the other way around.

I know that my half blacks kill, but they would not appeal to this young man. I have some nice gold pearscales coming on that he might like. I also have a huge spawn of super cool parabias that that the parents will have no choice but to deal with free swimming tomorrow. I love it when my wigglers mutiny. These will be cool fish because they are pearlscales.

These folks need to visit Angels Plus. Thanks for saying that my fish are good, Willie.

[Adam S]

+1 for Angels Plus. Healthy fish with good shape.

They'll eat pretty much anything, but a quality flake or pellet is easiest. Supplement that with frozen or freeze-dried foods a few times a week, and your angels will be happy.

How many fish depends on how many water changes you want to do. 8-10 is a good place to start with twice weekly water changes.

A couple other thoughts:
- Strongly encourage you to get standard fin angels and not veils or super veils. They need a bit more care and can get ratty looking if you neglect or crowd them.
- With just a sponge filter, the waste will settle all over the bottom. It's not particularly harmful, but it looks bad and you have to vacuum the entire bottom of the tank. A small pump near the bottom of the tank will pool all the waste into one or two spots, where it can easily be siphoned up a couple times a week. Something like this (click here) (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-530-GPH-Circulation-Pump-Wavemaker-Aquarium-Powerhead-Suction-Mount-SUNSUN/161793823285?epid=1948577578&hash=item25aba9d235:g:xxIAAOSwjVVVzXgg) is a very good, very cheap option.