Stressed fish questions

[HappyFace]

If you have a new discus laying at the bottom of the tank and a cory scuttles all over it like they're scavenging food, will it hurt the discus?

New discus were doing good day 1. Day 2 I decided to cull 3 adult low quality discus, 1 angel and 2 geophagus. The net freaked everyone out so bad all the new babies have clamped fins, laying at bottom of tank overflow box. Most of the adults are also unhappy, some with clamped fins but all are still feeding, not as good as yesterday though. A few babies have come around a bit but they're not eating much. Sometimes they'll eat and act normal then go back to laying next to the overflow. I've watched 2 babies laying down and eat as the food floats by them. Everyone refuses to hand feed now. They hate me.

No more Geos to clean up all the leftovers. They are feeding wishy-washy. Yesterday an hour after I culled they ate 8 blood worm cubes in their afternoon feeding. Today I fed 6 blood worm cubes at the same time and at least 4 bloodworms total were all over the floor uneaten. I have to get the excess out (suction, net or blowout) which freaks them out more. The vicious cycle repeats itself.

I wonder if the geos helped increase their appetite with their non stop feeding frenzies? I'm regretting culling since everyone was doing so good yesterday before I culled.

I plan to feed 1/2 black worm cube two times a day pre-soaked and spread out since the babies stick to the bottom and I want them to eat. Does this sound like a good plan? If they get more voracious maybe feed a little more or add a 3rd feeding?

I want to avoid having to clear out excess food since it's stressing them out so bad.

[HappyFace]

I thought I'd include before and after culling pictures of my stressed discus.

[sanjay21]

I thought I'd include before and after culling pictures of my stressed discus.

I'm sure by culling alone the rest of the batch cannot stress to that point.

Have you checked on the water parameters ?what are the readings ? When discus are really stressed I do major water change, lower the lights and add Aquarium salt.
Also you mentioned about introducing new Discus. Have you quarantined them ?

[HappyFace]

I would agree with you except that they were so stressed while I was netting the ones I wanted to cull and then after they were devastated. It was as if I set off a bomb in the tank during and after the culling. The water parameters are perfect. I will add salt to the tank right now. I do 80% water change a day the tank is at 86 degrees. I did not quarantine. I know I should quarantine but I wasn't able to. I know this adds one more stress to the mix but I can say they were doing great after their delivery for an entire day they did excellent it was only while I was netting the ones I wanted to cull and immediately after that they freaked out and haven't gotten over it especially since I've had to keep suctioning and netting waste food which freaks them out again.

When I had my first batch of discus I used to constantly net and suction the tank several times a day and I had to push the discus away because they just wanted to be near my hand but these guys are different. The geophagus always clean the tank so that I never had to use suction, nets or blowout anymore. The new guys weren't used to me putting nets or suction into tank.

[HappyFace]

When I went back in the room 2 of the babies had their fins erect for the first time since the culling. 4 babies were swimming with the big guys. I salted the tank to 2.7PPT.

I'm using expensive aquarium salt. I heard that you can use water softener salt in 40# bags for around $5.*Does anyone use this? I only have about 4-5 days worth of salt left, thinking of getting something less expensive.

[HappyFace]

Parameters same as always. I've been checking daily since adding new discus.

[HappyFace]

It's only the new fish that are clamped right now. The big pink butterfly and the babies.

[HappyFace]

I'm reading about other people's stressed fish. Most are due to bad water or disease, bacterial bloom. It sounds like lots of little things can stress them out too. My guys suffer with a double sided aquarium in the middle of the room, uncovered French doors where they see birds fly around outside and me and my son and dog walk by all day casting shadows. Think of the brightest room you can imagine- that's what my room is like all day (white tank in a white room, no window coverings), nowhere to hide and their lights are on until 10pm.

[HappyFace]

Adding salt and not feeding helped. I didn't feed for 7 hours, went to run errands. Nobody was next to the overflow when I got home. They were ravenous. The adults hand fed, babies attacked a cube on the side. A few of the babies still have equilibrium problem and all have clamped fins but they all ate a total of 1.5 black worms cubes, no waste.

[HappyFace]

Someone like me might look up "stressed fish" and come read this thread and wonder what happened if I stop posting so I will use it like a blog and give updates. Here are pictures tonight before and during feeding. All clamped fin fish are 2 days in the tank or less, still have equilibrium problems but ate good tonight and are moving around the tank, no longer laying on the floor. Funny how they are super round/tall with their fins erect. When their fins are clamped most of them are kind of kite shaped.

[adrian31@outlook.com]

When I went back in the room 2 of the babies had their fins erect for the first time since the culling. 4 babies were swimming with the big guys. I salted the tank to 2.7PPT.

I'm using expensive aquarium salt. I heard that you can use water softener salt in 40# bags for around $5.*Does anyone use this? I only have about 4-5 days worth of salt left, thinking of getting something less expensive.

Use 'Kosher Salt' from the supermarket, which is perfect.

[Kyla]

If you are worried they have high stress levels you could leave the tank lights off for a couple days and put up some sort of sheets on some of the tank walls while they adjust to the new environment.

[HappyFace]

Use 'Kosher Salt' from the supermarket, which is perfect.

Thank you Kenny. :)


If you are worried they have high stress levels you could leave the tank lights off for a couple days and put up some sort of sheets on some of the tank walls while they adjust to the new environment.

Thank you Kyla. :) I will try that if they don't turnaround by this afternoon.

[HappyFace]

I had the tank at 88 degrees but my Finnex 800watt heater went out yesterday. I have two 300 watt backup heaters in the sump and I added a new 300 watt spare and together the 3 heaters only keep the tank at 86 degrees (despite being set at 90 degrees). Should I add another spare heater to bring it back up to 88?

[Kyla]

I can't comment on this. I keep my tank between 82-84 F typically.

[HappyFace]

One of my platinum albino babies died. The best one of the bunch, of coarse. Not sure why he died when he looked perfect. What disease attacks a fish and kills them without being visible?

Incidentally, at the exact moment I was holding him a blue jay slammed into the double French door next to the tank -BAM! landed on the ground then flew off. Maybe he thought he could catch a fish? I've never seen or heard a bird do that before. The fish had zero reaction. It didn't appear to startle them at all. I'm going to cover the tank on that side for now. They don't need that stress on top of everything else.

[HappyFace]

I just added Metronidazole to the tank. The babies seem to have gotten over their equilibrium problems but they still have clamped fins. They are eating. I will post again in 1 week with an update. By then they should all be better or dead.

[HappyFace]

I still have wacky sideways swimmers. This links below says it's swim bladder disease and recommend treating Discus with Epsom salt and metro. After reading the second article (I'm not a vet) but it sounds like my platinum died of swim bladder disease that had progressed to a point where it couldn't swim right. He got stuck on the top of a pump near the water line in my aquarium and exposed to air that killed him.

Treatment- Hospital tank temp 86F, Airstone on
Epsom Salt (1Tablespoon/10gal)
Metrogyl/ Metronidazol (Commonly sold under the brand name Flagyl)....Use 30ml per10gal........

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120422130555AAw3dKe

I also read this good article on swim bladder disease. Stress can cause it.

https://www.petcha.com/what-is-swim-bladder-disease-and-how-is-it-treated/

[HappyFace]

I highly recommend to anybody that visits this forum to please check out alternate resources for treating your fish if it gets sick. Not looking outside this forum for advise was a mistake.

[Second Hand Pat]

I highly recommend to anybody that visits this forum to please check out alternate resources for treating your fish if it gets sick. Not looking outside this forum for advise was a mistake.

Heidi, you are free to seek advice from where ever you like but please do not blame the forum for your issues. Honestly you are all over the place with your fish. No QT and adding fish from multiple sources can be a recipe for disaster. It is very hard to follow you across multiple threads. I would really suggest you slow down and put all the information in one thread like a disease thread.
Pat

[LJSmith]

Heidi, you are free to seek advice from where ever you like but please do not blame the forum for your issues. Honestly you are all over the place with your fish. No QT and adding fish from multiple sources can be a recipe for disaster. It is very hard to follow you across multiple threads. I would really suggest you slow down and put all the information in one thread like a disease thread.
Pat
+1

[HappyFace]

Heidi, you are free to seek advice from where ever you like but please do not blame the forum for your issues. Honestly you are all over the place with your fish. No QT and adding fish from multiple sources can be a recipe for disaster. It is very hard to follow you across multiple threads. I would really suggest you slow down and put all the information in one thread like a disease thread.
Pat

Hi Pat. I'm sorry that I didn't place my thread in the correct place. You are right, a disease thread would be better.

I am a bit sad that swim bladder disease is common and swimming erratically (upside down and sideways), loss of balance is the main symptom but no one responded. I did a simple search on google and found the info I needed. Once I knew the name of what my discus have I was able to look it up and find a wealth of info.

I'm not blaming the forum. You and the forum aren't obligated in any way to help me or anyone else. It was my fault for assuming people would chime in with observations or advise. I'm sure everyone here has a life and not always able to help or even want to. I'm just advising others to look outside the forum also.

[NEangler]

There's gotta be a link between the sideway swimmers and the crashing bluejay.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Pat. I'm sorry that I didn't place my thread in the correct place. You are right, a disease thread would be better.

I am a bit sad that swim bladder disease is common and swimming erratically (upside down and sideways), loss of balance is the main symptom but no one responded. I did a simple search on google and found the info I needed. Once I knew the name of what my discus have I was able to look it up and find a wealth of info.

I'm not blaming the forum. You and the forum aren't obligated in any way to help me or anyone else. It was my fault for assuming people would chime in with observations or advise. I'm sure everyone here has a life and not always able to help or even want to. I'm just advising others to look outside the forum also.

Hi Heidi, a disease thread does go in a specific forum http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?34-Emergency-Room but there is also a detailed questionnaire which goes with it http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete. I hope you found the source of the problems with your discus and things settle down for you.
Pat

[bluelagoon]

Hi,I've been reading your threads also.The death sounds like it got spooked and crashed in the wall or top.Seems you have put them under a lot of stress since you had them.The discus that I have lost;most died this way.What makes you think you need to medicate?

[HappyFace]

Hi Heidi, a disease thread does go in a specific forum http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?34-Emergency-Room but there is also a detailed questionnaire which goes with it http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete. I hope you found the source of the problems with your discus and things settle down for you.
Pat

Thank you Pat.

Hi,I've been reading your threads also.The death sounds like it got spooked and crashed in the wall or top.Seems you have put them under a lot of stress since you had them.The discus that I have lost;most died this way.What makes you think you need to medicate?

I agree. I just thought they were stressed and would get over it. That's why I didn't put it in the disease forum. :(( I didn't think it was a disease. They say swim bladder from stress or another cause is deadly and to use antibiotics.

[HappyFace]

There's gotta be a link between the sideway swimmers and the crashing bluejay.

I agree.

[Paul Sabucchi]

I too keep mine at 29C/84F. 88F seems mighty high unless there is a reason, such as parassites, to treat with high temperature. The higher thetemperature the lower the desolved oxygen so that could be contributing to stressing the fish

[HappyFace]

I too keep mine at 29C/84F. 88F seems mighty high unless there is a reason, such as parassites, to treat with high temperature. The higher thetemperature the lower the desolved oxygen so that could be contributing to stressing the fish

Thank you Paul. Good advise. I will do a large water change to remove most of the salt and lower the temp to 84.

[HappyFace]

It's been a very hard day. I woke up to 2 dead babies. At noon before I left for work my beautiful big cockatoo discus died. The only 4 discus out of the 9 that had really good bodies died. RIP beautiful babies. I'm so sorry for all the things I didn't do right.

All day I've been thinking of getting out of discus. I didn't do anything right this time round. When I did everything right for over a year my 3 favorite discus died because my new sump leaked and my backup filter wasn't enough for them.

[Filip]

I'm sorry for your loss Heidi .

We have all been in your shoes at some point of our discus keeping practice and I can relate to how devastated you feel right now .
Maybe taking a couple of months off discus will clear your head about your further decesions .
After that resting period , if you still can't get those round discs out of your head , you'll know you are ready for another challenge .

[adrian31@outlook.com]

Really sorry to hear about this Heidi. Most here have been in your shoes. I also know what this is like and I take it as a learning experience. Even when you do everything right with quarantine, etc., mishaps can still occur with water, filter, other odd incidents which result in dead fish. Even after proper quarantine deaths can still occur due to illness when mixing different fish.

I suppose the most sure way to succeed with your perfect fish is start with a fresh sterile environment (tank/filter), get all your fish at once from a reputable source, and personally hand-pick your fish to guarantee you get exactly what you want. As I mentioned, this last time around I sterilized my tank/filter to do a fresh start, ordered from a reputable supplier, but I wasn't able to hand-pick my fish. Only 5 of the 15 I received in that order were what I considered 'select grade' and what I was looking for. And it wasn't too long after that a water mishap occurred that resulted in some deaths.

This hobby can be difficult, especially when you're still learning and picky, like I have been.

Conclusion: don't take it too hard, this is normal for where you are right now.

[HappyFace]

I'm sorry for your loss Heidi .

We have all been in your shoes at some point of our discus keeping practice and I can relate to how devastated you feel right now .
Maybe taking a couple of months off discus will clear your head about your further decesions .
After that resting period , if you still can't get those round discs out of your head , you'll know you are ready for another challenge .

Thank you Filip. I think that's a good idea.


Really sorry to hear about this Heidi. Most here have been in your shoes. I also know what this is like and I take it as a learning experience. Even when you do everything right with quarantine, etc., mishaps can still occur with water, filter, other odd incidents which result in dead fish. Even after proper quarantine deaths can still occur due to illness when mixing different fish.

I suppose the most sure way to succeed with your perfect fish is start with a fresh sterile environment (tank/filter), get all your fish at once from a reputable source, and personally hand-pick your fish to guarantee you get exactly what you want. As I mentioned, this last time around I sterilized my tank/filter to do a fresh start, ordered from a reputable supplier, but I wasn't able to hand-pick my fish. Only 5 of the 15 I received in that order were what I considered 'select grade' and what I was looking for. And it wasn't too long after that a water mishap occurred that resulted in some deaths.

This hobby can be difficult, especially when you're still learning and picky, like I have been.

Conclusion: don't take it too hard, this is normal for where you are right now.

Thank you Kenny. I really appreciate your kind words.

[HappyFace]

My Survivors have been eating like pigs the last 2 days. The babies look rounder even when they clamp their fins down. Maybe filling out will help their shape improve. The tank has an almost eery sense of calm without the Geophagus and angels. Everyone is at peace, nobody fights. My husband calls the tank boring now lol.

[Kyla]

Boring is good!!

[HappyFace]

Thank you Kyla. I agree!