Daniel's Tank Setup and Questions

[danotaylor]

1) G'day everyone. My name is Daniel. Originally from Australia, and moved to the US with my wife and kiddos 5 years ago. I have kept all manor of African, CA/SA cichlids over the past 35 years. during my time in the hobby I have suffered MTS on several occasions, but these days I have a solitary 6' 125gal and my 2 boys have a 10 & 12 gal tank respectively. Over the past 8 years I have been keeping/breeding mostly tropheus, and currently have a 2.5 yr old group of F1 cypho gibb kapampa and some other smaller community tangs. I have successfully kept discus several times throughout my years in the hobby and both my wife and I feel it is time to switch back to the King of the aquarium.

2) I have read numerous stickies over the past couple of days, and though I hve kept discus previously, hope to glean vital info from the SD forum family.

3) My tank is a standard 125 gal; 72x18x23 and will be set up as a display. This particular tank has been running non stop for 3.5 years.

4) I did plan to have a thin layer of coarse white sand (inert) but in reading Al's recommendations, was thinking maybe to begin BB and go from there. I do desire a low tech planted display, with plants attached to drift wood, perhaps some crypts, etc.

5) I have numerous food grade 55 gal barrels, so I plan to age my tap water, and pH reduce and buffer if necessary. (I have not tested my source water as yet as I moved from well water in NW Ohio, to tap water in Cincinnati just 4 weeks ago. Keeping tangs with aragopnite as my substrate my pH was always around 8.2...perfect for tangs, not so for discus. My current WC practice is 75% every 2 weeks. I hope that with low stocking density (4-6 discus) with the switch to discus to do 75% weekly, but am able to do more if that is necessary. I plan to do whatever it takes to keep them happy & healthy.

6) I have a 30 gal sump with a 2 stage trickle system. Stage 1 is filter wool to remove solid waste and stage to is a mix of bioballs and ceramic beads for the BB to colonize. I have a 650 gal return pump, 300 W heater, and a 48" beamswork LED (basic model with white & acitinic diodes)

7) If the tank is already setup and running, include the water parameters;

- temp: 78

- tank ph: 8.2 (clearly that will be need to be reduced. I will remove the aragonite and get an inert sand substrate, and age and pH reduce and buffer my water)

- Ph of the water straight out of your tap: unsure atm

- ammonia reading: 0.0

- nitrite reading: 0ppm

- nitrate reading 40-80 usually with my tangs...what should my target be with discus?

- well water: not any more :)

- municipal water: yep


8) I plan for 6 x 4"-5.5" discus, a few of the smaller geo's (unless that is a totally bad idea), and a school of cardinals & rummynose. I spent a couple of hours last night drooling over Kenny's May shipment, read a bunch of reviews from his customers, wrote to him with questions and heard back the next day, and so I plan to purchase my discus from Kenny. I want to time it all after I have sold off my tangs, switch out the substrate, clean out my sump, then I will be ready.

9) With acquisition of medium sized discus I hope twice daily feeds with high quality flake or pellet and high quality beef heart formula will be sufficient. Realistically since I am several weeks away from the switch, I still need to read some more on the site regarding types of feeds and regimes.

10) My primary goals are to enjoy my fish, keep my wife interested, get my kids more involved in keeping fish, and keep happy & healthy fish.

I look forward to interacting with the community here and learning what I need to know to achieve the above mentioned goals. Peace out everyone!

[danotaylor]

Ok, further to my post above, I have done some more research today and I may need to rethink the geo's...maybe a species only tank would be best...or maybe some rams & tetras will still work. The initial plan (determined partially by budget) is to house 6 medium discus in the 125 gal.
I am still thinking some basic plants attached to wood (anubias, java fern, etc) and leaving the substrate planted plants out of the picture. I do think I will begin with a thin layer of inert sand and have a basic river stone and root wood aquascape that enables effective cleaning.
My 125 gal currently has the rear glass painted black as that really enhanced the coloration of my cypho's. I think I have settled on either 4.5" valentine, 4-4.5" red melon/golden or 5.5" blue diamonds with teh dark blue gene, as the bright coloration really appeals to my wife & I, and they're stunning. Is the black background going to make the discus darker or will their colors pop nicely if the water quality and overall environment make them feel secure & happy?
Is 1 x 300W heater going to be enough to get my temp to 82-84F?
Thanks for any advice :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Daniel, sometimes it helps to bump a thread. To answer some of your questions I would suggest not mixing discus and geos. I tried it and felt the geos were out competing the discus for food. Start with discus and once you get a handle on them then consider dither fish (after QT of course :)).

Discus tend to blend with their background and black may not be the best choice as the discus will darken to match. Also some PB may pepper also. How many gallons does the maker of the heater say the 300W is good for?
Pat

[danotaylor]

Thanks for replying Pat. I will check the manufacturer's specs for my heater...had a "dah" moment when you suggested that (blush)...300W is rated to do the trick for a 125 gal up to 93F, but I now believe it would be best to purchase a new heater since mine is old and prob close to a malfunction.
geo's are going off the radar, thanks for the heads up...
looks like I will be scraping the black off then, no harm...I wonder if I should leave it unpainted, or use a lighter color perhaps...I did see 1 tank on this site that had the back painted white...hhmmm, not to sure I want it that bright though...
After talking with Kenny, I plan to go all discus, and prob increase my number to 10 for the 125 gal.
Question (2 actually);
1. will dipping plants in a potassium permanganate solution adequately "cleanse" of potential pathogens before adding them to a discus tank? I was hoping to anchor some java fern & anubias to some wood but not sure how to QT plants.
2. Is bone dry wood considered free from potential aquatic pathogens?
Thanks,
Daniel

[danotaylor]

Would any of the experienced discus Keepers care to my questionnaire answers in the first post on this thread?

[Second Hand Pat]

Ok. reread thru everything and the two questions I see are what is preferred nitrate levels for discus. You should aim for 5 or less, hopefully not above 10. Regarding driftwood, be sure to get aquarium safe driftwood. Many folks do soak any wood in bleach for a bit and then rinse really well. I do not do this especially if the wood has been dry a long time.
Pat

[Gabriel13]

Would any of the experienced discus Keepers care to my questionnaire answers in the first post on this thread?

I'm not an experienced discus keeper but I know that stability is better than constantly adjusting the ph. I would just age the water and allow them to adjust to whatever that is unless you have wild discus.

[Gabriel13]

Also on the equipment such as heaters I would get units that are rated for more gallons than needed and always have spares on hand. I buy double everything. Over the years I have learned that nothing breaks at the right time. So be ready.

[danotaylor]

Ok. reread thru everything and the two questions I see are what is preferred nitrate levels for discus. You should aim for 5 or less, hopefully not above 10. Regarding driftwood, be sure to get aquarium safe driftwood. Many folks do soak any wood in bleach for a bit and then rinse really well. I do not do this especially if the wood has been dry a long time.
Pat

Thank you Pat, I appreciate you taking the time to re-read my thread and answer my questions. :D
I am assuming then with regards to my equip and plan I am in good shape to get started with discus then? Once I sell of my tangs and sterilize my tank & equipment that is...

[danotaylor]

I'm not an experienced discus keeper but I know that stability is better than constantly adjusting the ph. I would just age the water and allow them to adjust to whatever that is unless you have wild discus.
Thank you Gabriel, I appreciate your advice...I have a water aging plan and your input was the same as Kenny, my soon to be supplier...let them adjust to my source water...Kenny said providing the ph is between 6-8.5 that is.
Good equipment advice as well...sound wisdom.
Cheers mate!

[Gabriel13]

Best of luck to ya mate!

[Adam S]

Thanks for replying Pat. I will check the manufacturer's specs for my heater...had a "dah" moment when you suggested that (blush)...300W is rated to do the trick for a 125 gal up to 93F, but I now believe it would be best to purchase a new heater since mine is old and prob close to a malfunction.
geo's are going off the radar, thanks for the heads up...
looks like I will be scraping the black off then, no harm...I wonder if I should leave it unpainted, or use a lighter color perhaps...I did see 1 tank on this site that had the back painted white...hhmmm, not to sure I want it that bright though...
After talking with Kenny, I plan to go all discus, and prob increase my number to 10 for the 125 gal.
Question (2 actually);
1. will dipping plants in a potassium permanganate solution adequately "cleanse" of potential pathogens before adding them to a discus tank? I was hoping to anchor some java fern & anubias to some wood but not sure how to QT plants.
2. Is bone dry wood considered free from potential aquatic pathogens?
Thanks,
Daniel
I don't like white backgrounds either, so I used "Harbor Blue" Rustoleum spray paint on the sides with Rustoleum American Accents "Pebble" on the bottom of some tanks. Terrible video, but here's what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utRoPwVVnTs

Get 2-3 heaters that add up to the number of watts you need. Lowers the chance of cooking your fish.

PP dip for plants is probably sufficient, but you won't get sterile, 100% pathogen free plants without tissue culture. PP also won't kill snails 100%. Not sure about java fern, but TC Anubias barteri is easy enough to find.

Probably on the wood, but I usually bleach or boil to be safe. For bleach, I use one of those pump sprayers usually used for weed killing. Let the bleach sit for a few, rinse it with hot water then let dry.

[danotaylor]

Thank you for replying Adam. Some really great wisdom there. I truly appreciate you taking the time to direct me!
BTW, awesome looking plecos mate!

[two utes]

Hi Dan.
Apart from making the big move from Australia to the States, i think you're on the right track. Haha joking off coarse ;)

I think its great that the whole family enjoys the hobby, and i'm sure that you will have plenty of volunteers to do needed water changes. I'm from Melbourne and lucky to have had success with small water changes straight out of the tap every four days or so, but feel that this may not be the case where you're at.

My tank is decorated with a thin layer of white washed sand which holds beneficial bacteria and sets off the discus and pieces of driftwood with plants attached.
Like you all I've ever wanted is to enjoy my fish, and i have due to the fact that they have been trouble free. This was due to them being purchased from a good source. I started with a large group and thinned them down as they grew, which allowed me to keep what i thought was the best of the group and recovered some of the money i spent on them initially. As you know discus do better in large groups, so i would recommend going with as many as you can hold...and afford

I have had no personnel experience with Kenny, but from what i have read on here, and have heard from friends, you wont go wrong.

Just wanted to wish you the best of luck, and look forward to further updates with pictures of your tank.

[danotaylor]

two utes, mate, its a ripper to hear from ya...true blue, fair dinkum, bloody oath...haha...love Melbourne...who is your AFL team? At the risk of offending you, I am a Pie's supporter. My dad was president of the Sherwood footy club in Brisbane when I was a young bloke, Collingwood's brother club in the QAFL. :p

Seriously though, thanks for replying mate. I have decided to buy a little smaller (3.5-4") and get 10-12 into the 125 instead of 6. I plan on a simple scape, similar to how your sounds but have got to sell off my tang's to make room. That is proving to be harder than expected because I am not set up to ship. Fortunately Kenny gets monthly shipments so all will be well, just having to be patient...a fish lovers worse character trait, LOL. :blushing:

Will post pics when I is all happenin. Take it easy bloke. :D

[two utes]

two utes, mate, its a ripper to hear from ya...true blue, fair dinkum, bloody oath...haha...love Melbourne...who is your AFL team? At the risk of offending you, I am a Pie's supporter. My dad was president of the Sherwood footy club in Brisbane when I was a young bloke, Collingwood's brother club in the QAFL. :p

Seriously though, thanks for replying mate. I have decided to buy a little smaller (3.5-4") and get 10-12 into the 125 instead of 6. I plan on a simple scape, similar to how your sounds but have got to sell off my tang's to make room. That is proving to be harder than expected because I am not set up to ship. Fortunately Kenny gets monthly shipments so all will be well, just having to be patient...a fish lovers worse character trait, LOL. :blushing:

Will post pics when I is all happenin. Take it easy bloke. :D

G'day Dan. Yep i'm a Pies supporter as well mate, though the AFL is doing a good job at stuff'n it all up.
I think you're making the right choice going smaller and geting a larger batch. It will be awesome seeing them develop and grow and i bet your missus and kids will be stoked.
I didn't want to hijack Liz's thread but to answer your question i am traveling to New Jersey to check out NADA in July. If you're there I'll shout you a beer, but l'd doubt that they'll have the good aussie stuff. Just kid'n mate.
Good luck.

Joe

[danotaylor]

So I believe I finally have a buyer for my Cypho Kapampa group and friends...it has been a pain staking wait, but I have had the opportunity to really research and spend time on the SD forum over the past few weeks...I have seen some major trends emerge through peoples comments, especially to novices with sick discus...I hope I have been able to glean the foundational truths in preparation for the transition to (back) discus...I have had reasonable success in the past but now why I was never able to grow my discus past 5"...SOOooo, I am excited to get the tang's sold off late next week, clean my system entirely, and get organized to have my 125 gal host a nice group of 10-12 discus over a BB with a simple hard scape. I have my water aging/ change system thought out which is simple but should be effective. More to come soon!

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Daniel, there are many ways to start off with discus. Some of them with not great results as you have observed. Glad to hear you are a step closer to getting your discus. :)
Pat