Posting ... the ultimate pay it forward pay it back

[brewmaster15]

As an admin over the years here I have seen and read what must be a bazillion posts.I try and reply where I can to them and engage members in discussions which is no surprise since this is a DISCUSSION FORUM.:) I made a lot of friends and connections and learned alot.

I have noticed a change the last few years in how people use forums though that is a bit discouraging .Albeit, I am biased.:) I blame it on those arch villians of the internet... Facebook and Twitter.:evilgrin:. j/k but...
Now before any of the Fb junkies and tweety birdies get all up in arms hear me out. :) Im not slamming these medias but its not hard to see how they changed the way we interact online. Its made it easier in many ways. But even something good can have negative effects.

I think thats the case with forums. The forums still get lots of traffic but people use them more like the Social Media Monster sites. They read. They may log in but they don't post much. Think about how you use those sites mostly. For many they are used to keep up with whose doing what. You generally have a list of hundreds to thousands of "friends" and "followers" on line.... but how many do you interact with or respond to.Not many really.

As a result long indepth discussions do not really occur as the norm. Many use them as an instant messaging app. I think that as a unintended consequence people have been conditioned to using all social media that way....including forums.

Its a shame in some ways because forums can build comradery and friendships by their very nature as a by-product of discussion and learning in a more localized setting. This makes the hobby more enjoyable. Forums also have a permanency ( is that even a word? lol) Try and find a facebook discussion a year ago...2years ..3 years ago... its not that easy... a forum though...no sweat.

So where am I going here? I titled this thread. "Posting ... the ultimate pay it forward pay it back "When you post , be it a question,observation, or response, you are paying back the community here for anytime they have posted and helped you or responded to you. You also are paying it forward for the time when you need help or support or are looking for an interaction that goes beyond "being logged in". Its much like living in a neighborhood. There may come a time when your neighbor needs help with that tree that came down on his house . You can stand there and watch from your yard or you can roll up your sleeves and try help. What you decide can affect what happens when you are in need..

Facebook and twitter as well as many other social medias have turned much of our online interaction into a spectator sport, imo. I have no proof. Just something I feel. Probably because most everyone has the ability with smart devices to be plugged in all the time. You can always be watching. That works very well for them and I have no problem with them ... to each his or her own. . But Forums function best when you leave the sidelines and participate.

Just some thing to think about as you read the threads. Don't short change yourself by not interacting. You may end up making a few connections when you do
interact. Whether you realize it or not you are here reading to learn about the fish and hobby probably... but if you dont post and no body else posts you really are missing out on the best part of the hobby. Sharing it with others like yourselves.

Posting ... the ultimate pay it forward pay it back . Give it a try.:bandana:

Al

[Larry Bugg]

I'm with you Al. I think we have gained a lot with social media but we have lost as much or more. For me a good example is watching someone on social media post about a health issue with their fish. Joe Blow from Kokomo post and says turn up the heat, add salt, give them a PP bath ect, ect. The person immediately follow the advice without any knowledge of who Joe Blow is, what his experience level is or more important if he knows what he is talking about. On the forum people get to know the others and can get a fairly good idea about who is who and who to trust. Don't get me wrong, I'm on FB daily checking to see who is doing what and when but I'm also still here reading also.

[Second Hand Pat]

Oh man Larry, saw that yesterday in the SD group. Guy wanted to PP a group of fry and a member responded to mix so many grams of PP with water and add to the tank for 24 hours. Who knows what the strength of the pp was and I have never heard of a 24 hour duration. :eek:

So the guy apparently did as suggested and posted a vid of the fry the next day where the fry were dying and gasping for air at the top of the water column. It was sad. :(

I do direct folks here for better advice.
Pat

[Jimmy Discus]

I just saw that post too Pat. Surprisingly, many people use PP and encourage other people to use without good knowledge about that. People learn things fast on fb :)

[brewmaster15]

If you havent seen this thread yet..

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?130047-DIY-quot-Anoxic-Filtration-System-quot-eliminates-nitrates-Anyone-tried-this

That sums up where a forum thread comes in. You would never ever ever find something like that thread on Facebook. The discussion.The back and forth banter. The whole thread is a masterpiece of members coming together and talking about and sharing their ideas in great detail. 30 plus pages of engaging discussion spanning months.
Al

[warblad79]

Oh man Larry, saw that yesterday in the SD group. Guy wanted to PP a group of fry and a member responded to mix so many grams of PP with water and add to the tank for 24 hours. Who knows what the strength of the pp was and I have never heard of a 24 hour duration. :eek:

So the guy apparently did as suggested and posted a vid of the fry the next day where the fry were dying and gasping for air at the top of the water column. It was sad. :(

I do direct folks here for better advice.
Pat

I'm one of those who reply to that post. Sadly, he might need to cull everything and start all over again. I never PP my fry for more than 10mins and color should be lighter pink. It's unfortunate, most people in FB are misinformed.

[Gabriel13]

Forums are great learning tools and a solid place for interactions. The wealth of knowledge and experience is invaluable. Thank you Al just for this site alone.

[LizStreithorst]

You know Al, I have never felt comfortable with social media exactly due to what you said about relationships. I can't make friends on Facebook because of the way it works. Heck, I can't even carry on a conversation there. I tried twitter too and it was even worse.

People go with what makes them the most happy. ATM it seems as though everyone is married to their phone and have nothing of substance to say. I hate it too.

[Pices]

There are good things about fb. I’m able to see loved ones grow up that live far away. Today my niece posted a picture of her belly with a sign that said, “EVICTION NOTICE MAY 31, 2018” before she went to the hospital To have her C-section. That’s the good part, but a lot of it is geared to provoke emotions/anger/hatred without logic or debate. I find myself spending more time here than there for that reason. I’m finding I have things in common with people besides fish “through” fish.
Patty

[brewmaster15]

There are good things about fb. I’m able to see loved ones grow up that live far away. Today my niece posted a picture of her belly with a sign that said, “EVICTION NOTICE MAY 31, 2018” before she went to the hospital To have her C-section. That’s the good part, but a lot of it is geared to provoke emotions/anger/hatred without logic or debate. I find myself spending more time here than there for that reason. I’m finding I have things in common with people besides fish “through” fish.
Patty

Lol...love that sign Patty. And yes you are right there are good sides to facebook..especially when it comes to staying in touch. I do see a solution though where you can get the best of both worlds. :)

Give your niece a discus tank for their newborn and invite them here! :)
al

[Tshethar]

I think you've got a good thing going here, Al, and I give you credit for maintaining it actively for so long. It's both a searchable database of old threads as well as a support group for hobbyists new and old who have problems or good things to share. My foray into discus keeping only lasted for a few painful months as I lost a batch of juvies one-by-one, but after more than a year away from the forum I found myself browsing again because I felt like I learned things when I was here, and also generally appreciated the ethos as well as the help and encouragement I received. (And personally I almost entirely opt out of other social media--no Twitter and keep FB to a bare minimum.)

I agree with others that managing social dynamics in the internet age is a continually evolving challenge. In general I'm not too optimistic about it as a force for creating a sense of community; unfortunately the technology that could foster a greater sense of belonging often ends up doing the opposite, or so say some psych studies of teens/young adults, at any rate, from what I'm told.) But here I think the forum is a little different than other platforms, or at least has the potential to be. (For one thing, it probably helps that most of the people here all survived their adolescence....)


While the everyday dynamics of forums like these may ebb and flow, there is some real substance here that goes beyond individual personalities. Even though I'm not experienced with discus and aren't actively keeping any right now (and so am unlikely to post most of the time), I still feel like I can learn a lot about the hobby here that helps both now and in the future. (For example, I've been able to think about fishroom designs (a man can dream, right?), learn about disease prevention and treatment, and think about other aspects of the hobby such as breeding and raising fry that can easily translate from discus to other species. And when I eventually jump back in, I'll be up-to-date on everything from water filtration, storage and changing systems to anoxic filtration strategies.

And there's no clickbait! (Well, except for the FDBWs... :) ...all things considered, a small price to pay. Keep on keepin' on, and hope to continue picking up tips and tricks on all aspects of the hobby as I bide my time until the next go-round. I'll still lurk most of the time, but I do hope that others will keep sharing their knowledge and experiences on here. It's fun to check in when I have the time. :thumbsup:

[Pices]

Great idea Al. She’s a veterinarian too. A vet with a discus bug would really be hitting the jackpot. I’ll definitely be hosting the next get together!
Patty

[LizStreithorst]

I've been thinking about this. Could it be a fear of writing in complete sentences with correct grammar and punctuation? I thought of this because I am mentoring a guy from Taiwan. He's been here since here since he was 12 and he's in his 40's now so he speaks perfect English. I told him how much he was missing by not joining forums. He said that if he joined a forum and posted and made a mistake people would think, "Stupid Asian can't speak correct English." There was no convincing him in how wrong headed his thinking was.

Think about it, all of us who post here aren't afraid to write. Dang, I'm dyslexic. Spell check is a great blessing but I would post even if it didn't exist. If people thought that I was stupid I would prove them wrong. I was never insecure about that kind of thing. Others might be.

[pm9ljr]

As a newbie i learn new things everyday by reading the posts and every little bit helps. So when i read so many grams of PP it was off to the beginners section for abbreviations

PP - Potassium Permanganate

Thanks for making so much information available to people of all levels of expiernece

now off to read what PP does Ha Ha

[Paul Sabucchi]

I agree with all these points, particularly that a veterinarian with a discus bug is a good thing (me being one, albeit on early retirement!). I have noticed a similar thing happening to a number of (fish) forums both international like African Cichlid Hub (I said I have a discus bug but not just that one, I caught the mbuna one way earlier) and the local Italian ones. As Al pointed out a post on a reputable forum allows the contributions to gain depth in a coherent way and you know who are the fishkeeping with decades of experience who's advice can be trusted. This "fad" with Facebook groups to me seems suited only for folk with attention deficit disorder but it may well erode the base even of good forums, so we better do our best not to allow this to happen (I'll try harder - for all it is worth!) Ciao

[Hiball1]

I couldn't agree more. I joined here in 2014 made 4 or 5 posts as I was gonna start back into the hobby after 20 years. Then things happened and I didn't get started till now a few months ago and I have seen a change from the first time I joined back then. I remember a lot of people posting and talking. Now it seems a handful of regulars post here. It's a shame really. This is a great forum and lots of good people here. Things in the discus hobby have changed from 25 years ago and lots of knowledge on this site. For me it is fun to share and see what others have to share.

Sean

[Gabriel13]

I rather consult on a forum that have to deal with 1000 sidewalk professors of social media. Some of the info out there is just disastrous. Youtube is becoming the same way.

[Pices]

I agree with all these points, particularly that a veterinarian with a discus bug is a good thing (me being one, albeit on early retirement!). I have noticed a similar thing happening to a number of (fish) forums both international like African Cichlid Hub (I said I have a discus bug but not just that one, I caught the mbuna one way earlier) and the local Italian ones. As Al pointed out a post on a reputable forum allows the contributions to gain depth in a coherent way and you know who are the fishkeeping with decades of experience who's advice can be trusted. This "fad" with Facebook groups to me seems suited only for folk with attention deficit disorder but it may well erode the base even of good forums, so we better do our best not to allow this to happen (I'll try harder - for all it is worth!) Ciao

Paul,
I’ve read many of your posts, most recently the cat food and nutritional needs of discus yesterday (my current focus). I can thank Al for my diabolical plan to covert my niece to discus keeping and I only blame him in case my plan works and she stumbles upon this post. I’m sticking with the “He started it” defense. Ha ha
You both (and so many others) have been the reason for my success and hopefully, in the future... my niece’s...(insert sinister laugh here)
Patty

[Paul Sabucchi]

Paul,
I’ve read many of your posts, most recently the cat food and nutritional needs of discus yesterday (my current focus). I can thank Al for my diabolical plan to covert my niece to discus keeping and I only blame him in case my plan works and she stumbles upon this post. I’m sticking with the “He started it” defense. Ha ha
You both (and so many others) have been the reason for my success and hopefully, in the future... my niece’s...(insert sinister laugh here)
Patty

Thanks, I firmly believe that good forums are invaluable as a source of knowledge and experience (just think of all the searchable posts that have been banked for future reference) but also to broaden one's horizons exchanging ideas (not necessarily just discus related) with people from all over the world and it would be a real shame if this possibility should be diminished by the ephemeral whims of social media. I started swatting well in advance of getting my fish and argued a fair bit on on one of the Italian discus forums (Mondo Discus), I do not entirely agree with their prevailing philosophy but enjoyed it nonetheless, but even over these short two years it seems to be withering, just one measly contribution yesterday and none today yet! So I will head Al's call to arms and put some effort into it, as my fish are coming up to their first birthday I will net some, measure and weigh them and report what I have done so far and the results it has yealded, warts and all hoping it will be of some interest and some use. If we all strive to put "meat" on the bones of the forum hopefully it will always appear inviting. Ciao

[14Discus]

I'm new to this forum, but have been in several insect forums for many years. This forum is awesome. Besides getting all kinds of good advice, it was through this site/forum that I got my terrific fish (from Kenny C.), obtained the ultimate food with color enhancers, and picked up ideas that I customized to meet my needs. When I belonged to another fish forum, it was much less friendly.......they kinda seemed stuck up and their way was the only way. Discussion here is friendly and non-threatening which invites people to post. I sincerely believe that my getting into Discus was made a lot easier and more successful having this site/forum available to me. Good job to all those who make this site what it is.....the best.

[brewmaster15]

I'm new to this forum, but have been in several insect forums for many years. This forum is awesome. Besides getting all kinds of good advice, it was through this site/forum that I got my terrific fish (from Kenny C.), obtained the ultimate food with color enhancers, and picked up ideas that I customized to meet my needs. When I belonged to another fish forum, it was much less friendly.......they kinda seemed stuck up and their way was the only way. Discussion here is friendly and non-threatening which invites people to post. I sincerely believe that my getting into Discus was made a lot easier and more successful having this site/forum available to me. Good job to all those who make this site what it is.....the best.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!:) I am glad to hear it!

al

[smsimcik]

I agree with all these points, particularly that a veterinarian with a discus bug is a good thing (me being one, albeit on early retirement!). I have noticed a similar thing happening to a number of (fish) forums both international like African Cichlid Hub (I said I have a discus bug but not just that one, I caught the mbuna one way earlier) and the local Italian ones. As Al pointed out a post on a reputable forum allows the contributions to gain depth in a coherent way and you know who are the fishkeeping with decades of experience who's advice can be trusted. This "fad" with Facebook groups to me seems suited only for folk with attention deficit disorder but it may well erode the base even of good forums, so we better do our best not to allow this to happen (I'll try harder - for all it is worth!) Ciao

Hey Paul, I've seen you here on the forum and never realized you were a veterinarian. So am I. Also in early retirement, with the discus bug as well as the angelfish bug, ram bug and livebearers' bug.
I'm happy to share my veterinary knowledge and experience any time I think I can be of help.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Hey Paul, I've seen you here on the forum and never realized you were a veterinarian. So am I. Also in early retirement, with the discus bug as well as the angelfish bug, ram bug and livebearers' bug.
I'm happy to share my veterinary knowledge and experience any time I think I can be of help.
Same here, I worked mostly in small animal practice and some exotics (mainly in Surrey, Staffordshire and Warwickshire). I now enjoy looking after my own rather than someone else's animals. Got 29 dogs (mostly rescues), 22 cats (mostly rescues, currently bottle feeding 3), 2 horses, 3 pet pigs and ornamental fowl (Runner ducks, Brahma and Serama chicken). Fish-wise, other than Discus I have 2 mbuna tanks, a Southamerican planted community and a nano-southamerican, a fantail tank, 2 betta, a nano Southeast Asia and now starting with Killies. Just got some Aphanius mento ""Kirkgoz"(originally from Turkey) and on Wednesday should get some Poropanchax normanni (Norman's lampeye - originally from West Africa). This last year I have also ventured into "outdoor fishkeeping", with a big tub-pond for goldfish, one ready for the Aphanius, one for Rainbow Shiners (also arriving Wednesday) and one for ricefish. I find many discus-keepers love keeping also a variety of other fish and animals in general - must be why I find this forum so congenial! Do you think we should ask Al for a section where we can discuss fish other than Discus and their tank mates (nothing fancy, no need for individual sections about each type of fish under the sun - just "rest of the fish world" kind of thing)? Really worried by the downward trend I see in many fishkeeping forums. Today it is my discus' first birthday so as I am getting ready to do today's water change I will net a few, measure and weigh them and post a summary on this forum hoping it will be of some intetest. Ciao from Italy

[Discluv]

Fish-keeping posts in various groups on Facebook contain opinions, not discussion. The format encourages short answers that are devoid of context or denies complexity.

Look at the comments generated in response to an online article following a tragedy, an election,a controversial passage of a law, for instance. The incapacity of social media as a site for productive discussion is daily evident.

Dialogue needs to circulate to reach depth. It should be truth-seeking and to do this requires more than one post. Actually, it should begin with questions prior to opinion; but, like I said, it denies it. The flaw is in the format.

The limits of Facebook are a by-product of a larger issue, however.

The computer age has created a mediated, "by proxy" relationship between humans. Interpersonal relationships and the verbal skills ( both oral and written) needed to tackle human ( primarily complex ethical) questions that a computer cannot --by algorithm -- answer, are an issue we will further deal with.
We are increasingly interacting with others remotely, quickly, superficially...

I am a Composition/English literature educator at the community college level and have, first hand, seen what the lack of oral and written skills is creating for our younger generation. I am just completing my certification to teach ( just received my Masters) but, have been tutoring students along the way. The percentage of students coming into community college entering remedial courses for reading and writing is increasing every year. The situation is dire.

[Paul Sabucchi]

I do understand your dismay for the decline in verbal and writing skills, when I moved to work in England I was taken aback by the poor level of education displayed by the work experience kids coming to the clinic, at least it boosted my own confidence as although raised bilingual my studies were exclusively in Italian (ok there was a fair bit of Latin and ancient Greek thrown in for good measure). But Al's point is what can we do to keep SD alive and vibrant, not to set right the failures of the education system. Probably those who prefer the bite size information that can be gained on Facebook groups and the like (but let's not bundle them all together, there are some extremely knowledgeable ultra-specialized fishkeeping FB groups) may not have the attention span to properly look after discus in the first place. Nonetheless what we can do is to continue to be as friendly, informative and helpful as always and play to the strengths of the forum format, that is to give a more complete, balanced and generally "peer reviewed" answer.

[smsimcik]

[QUOTE=Paul Sabucchi;128943 Do you think we should ask Al for a section where we can discuss fish other than Discus and their tank mates (nothing fancy, no need for individual sections about each type of fish under the sun - just "rest of the fish world" kind of thing)? Really worried by the downward trend I see in many fishkeeping forums.

Actually, there already is a section for non discus fish and pets down at the bottom of the forum page.

[Paul Sabucchi]

You are quite right, I usually just go on the main Discus section, that obviously does not encompass extraneous creatures...Doh! It may be that going bald does not prevent having blond moments!

[Second Hand Pat]

Here's the section for other freshwater fish http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?197-Freshwater-Fishes-and-Invertebrates, saltwater fish etc http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?198-Marine-Fishes-Invertebrates-and-Corals and other pets http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?201-Other-Pets. The forums format is quite subject matter rich.

It would be pretty cool of so other discus fish and other critters were highlighted in some of these other areas. :D
Pat