Hobbyists fry for sale ?

[sanjay21]

Hey Guys,

I really miss seeing Hobbyists Discus fry/juvenile for sale. Is anyone not selling anymore ? Would love to start a grow out project.

Thank you,
Sanjay

[RogueDiscus]

Hi Sanjay,
Thanks for posting this. I think there's a lot more going on in everyone's life right now, or at least in their minds. Just my feeling. Raising fish at the hobby level takes time that gets hard to find sometimes.
I'm aiming for 4-6 batches over the next year. Interesting, that's the first time I actually tried to quantify it, but that's about what I can support. I've got a couple pairs I'm working with. If I had more room, I'd be playing with a couple more pairs I have.
I'll post on SD if I have fry to sell.

Steve

[brewmaster15]

Sanjay,
Ive got several pairs sitting on eggs I have no clue what I will do with fry again. Its hard.because I really dont have the time or space to raise fry. I will probably offer them for sale when I do. Right now the only fry I have are from my wildx domestic crosses and they arent for sale....growing them to adult.

I havent seen too many.pics of pairs with fry by hobbyists recently. A few hobbyists I know are taking a break.. or have cut back.

al

[LizStreithorst]

i think that part of it because it costs people money to post Discus fry for sale. For a small hobbyist with just one spawn who may not even know how to ship the price just might be too much.

[brewmaster15]

i think that part of it because it costs people money to post Discus fry for sale. For a small hobbyist with just one spawn who may not even know how to ship the price just might be too much.

Liz I have seen this posted before and have gone down this one before and I disagree on the cost to post fry being a factor. We had few members post them before the change to the buy sell trade section was made. Those sales back then are still there to see. The cost went from zero to $25 per year . How much does a discus fry cost? How many fish per spawn might one hav
e? How many per year?

If you have a look around you will see that theres just not much breeding and rearing being posted.That and most hobbyists try to sell locally because its expensive or intimidating to ship.

Is it really too much to ask hobbyist members selling fry here to pay $25 year? Im sorry but I dont think it is.Ive bred and sold enough fry to know thats nothing.

Al

[LizStreithorst]

You might be right but home bred fish are shown at NADA so people are breeding.

I will PM you about this.

[brewmaster15]

You might be right but home bred fish are shown at NADA so people are breeding.

I will PM you about this.


Liz Im not saying people aren't raising fry...I have a bunch myself.Theres just not many.

Heres an example of a member with a batch of fry that he sold. ..

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?129272-1-1-4-quot-Brilliant-x-red-turq-discus-Riverside-CA-Pickup-Only

How many fish did he have to sell to cover that $25?

3 pcs

out of many.

al

[danotaylor]

perhaps the middle ground would be to let genuine "1st time" sellers pay after they have made their 1st sale...of course the honor system (old skool :P) would have to be in play...just a thought...

[brewmaster15]

Ok I will deal with this one in another Way. I will throw it out there for all of you to decide. Do you think it is fair and reasonable for the forum to receive $25 per year from a hobby breeder to be able to sell their fry here in our classifieds or should it be free for anyone to sell their fry on the forum? Reply here in this post and say why you feel the way you do. I will make the change back to free listings if theres enough people and a compelling discussion as to why it should be free. I realize that most of you dont breed discus or sell fry but I would ask that you cast your opinion here as well in case you ever do and because your opinion matters as much as any one elses. Please note if you are a hobby breeder to be fair.

Ok then lets put this to bed one way or another. What is everyones thoughts here on this.

Al

[danotaylor]

Don't get me wrong Al, I do think it is fair for sellers to pay. Hosting a site costs money, it doesn't necessarily just pay for itself, even if it is part of an overall business plan.
I think financial dues are in order, and rightly so, from those who are benefiting financially by using the site as a "customer base". My suggestion was simply to receive those dues after the fact in the instance of the "first sale" only. Like a try before you buy situation.
It is encouraging to me that some of the sellers who have already paid their dues, also give a percentage back to the site. Nice!

[AquaWoman]

I think it seems reasonable to pay a fee to place an add. Although, I can also see how some might be deterred by the fee.
So many places to post adds for free these days via social media, Craigslist etc. I think today people might just expect it to be free.

[Second Hand Pat]

I think it seems reasonable to pay a fee to place an add. Although, I can also see how some might be deterred by the fee.
So many places to post adds for free these days via social media, Craigslist etc. I think today people might just expect it to be free.

Craigslist is a scary place to sell or buy things. Here at least you can get a feel for a member before going for a visit. Is it worth $25? Sure it is. This site has saved so many people's fish, saved people money etc. Let's not be so petty.
Pat

[Adam S]

Well, I've sold a few shrimp and bristlenose to people here and some stuff on Aquabid. Just comparing SD to a free service (Aquabid requests 3% but doesn't mandate anything).

I have yet to have any trouble dealing with folks here on SD. Even the few lurkers without any posts were considerate and prompt.

Folks on Aquabid, though generally easy to work with, are less consistent in this regard. Maybe 1 out of 5 I sell to does something troublesome. Wrong address, no reply for a week, requesting shipping on days other than listed in the ad, etc. Only had to ban a couple people so far so nothing too bad.

SD (forums for that matter) is my preferred choice whether or not the service is free.

[Hidan]

I don't think its unreasonable to pay $25 to sell your fish, especially if fry sell for much more than that in the US.

My guess is its a lot more intimidating to ship fish for beginners, given the risk of DOAs and not being sure how to deal with people who you haven't met. Probably easier to sell locally and currently there are lots of avenues like FB that make such transactions easy.

[Hidan]

double post

[two utes]

$25 is more than reasonable and should be paid to allow members to sell fish over a 12 month period....i dont think anyone would bother selling just a couple of fish...would they?
I speak for myself when i say that i have gotton more value than that being a member on here

[crazyaboutdiscus]

$25 to be able to post fry for sale on the forum here is well worth it IMO, even for a micro-setup like I keep (three 55 gal tanks). I got several sales from my ad posted here that Al referred to...and they were definitely more discus savvy buyers than the average Craigslist responder. Which means they knew what to look for and were willing to pay a fair price for it, and also already knew how to care for them once sold, which makes me feel much better about the sale. I didn't offer shipping, if I had I expect there would have been more buyers from the forum.

I kept some of those fry I was selling on the forum last year to raise and at just over a year in age am just starting to get some pairing activity...so stay tuned and I may re-open my old thread to offer the next generation for sale soon...will happily pay my $25 to support the forum!

-Steve

[smsimcik]

Whether it's fair to charge $25 a year to post on the fry section is not the question. The question is does it discourage people from posting their fry for sale because they don't want to pay the $25. My observation as a casual observer is that there has been a marked decrease in the number of people posting fry for sale since the new policy has been in effect. Is it because there are less people raising fry or is it because they didn't want to buy a premium membership? I don't know. Maybe it's a combination of both. The sale Al used as an example earlier was from a post almost a year old.

Martha Morris has nice home bred fry for sell on Aquabid right now. Why didn't she list them on Simply too? Is it because she didn't want to buy a Premium Membership? I don't know. Someone would have to ask her.

The fact is, there would probably be more postings of fry for sell and postings in the buy/sell section if it were free to do so. If the idea is to get more postings, than it should be free. If the idea is to receive fees for helping people sell stuff, than leave it the way it is. There just won't be as meany postings.

[brewmaster15]

I have to wonder if anyone really looked at that section or smoking guns just become the norm? I looked hard at that section heres what I found for Discus Fry between 2012 and today. The numbers are based on the date the thread is posted.

2012... 19 sales threads on homebred Discus Fry. Of those 19 sales, 5 members made 2 sales threads.Of those sellers 10 have not been active on the forum since 2016/17or longer
and I know at least 4 that have completely left the hobby.

2013.... 28 sales threads] on homebred Discus Fry. Of those 28 sales, 2 members made 3 sales, 4 members made 2 sales, Of those sellers 8 have not been active on the forum since 2016/17 or longer and I know at least 2 are out of the hobby and one of the hobbyists that sold 3 x that year no longer breeds .

2014 .....27 sales threads on homebred Discus Fry. Of those 27 sales, 1 member made 4 sales and no longer breeds. 1 member made 3 sales and I am pretty sure he no longer breeds,1member made 2 sales. Of those sellers 7 have not been active on the forum since 2016/17 or longer


2015 .... 24 sales Threads] on homebred Discus Fry. Of those 24 sales, 1 member made 3 sales and I am pretty sure he no longer breeds, 1member made 2 sales and I know he doesn't breed and hasn't in awhile.Additionally 2 other members made 2 sales threads each.Of those sellers 5 have not been active on the forum since 2016/17 or longer

2016 .... 8 sales Threads on homebred Discus FryOf those 8 sales threads all were individual sales and 2 members have not been active on the forum since 2017 . This Data point is key here. It occurs before the policy change that started charging which occurred on 2/15/2017 (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?127808-Important-Changes-to-the-Forum-coming!) If the change caused the decline in hobby fry for sale why was 2016 so poor a year when the preceding 3 years were much more active?

2017 .... 6 sales threads on homebred Discus Fry were made after the policy change went into effect

2018... zero sales threads discus on homebred Discus Fry were made







Just to be redundant, lets sum it up again...



2012 14 hobby breeders.. 10 haven't been active and at least 2 are out of the hobby

2013 20 hobby breeders ....8 haven't been active and at least 2 are out of the hobby

2014 21 hobby breeders.. 7 haven't been active and at least 2 are out of the hobby

2015 19 hobby breeders,,, 5 haven't been active and at least 2 no longer breed

2016 8 Hobby breeders.. 2 haven't been active.

***Policy change This Data point is key here. It occurs before the policy change that started charging which occurred on 2/15/2017 (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?127808-Important-Changes-to-the-Forum-coming!) If the change caused the decline in hobby fry for sale why was 2016 so poor a year when the preceding 3 years were much more active?***

2017 6 Hobby Breeders sold fish after the change.

2018 0 hobby breeders sold fish


I'm fairly sure I accurately tallied this, If someone wants to spend a few hours going over it as I did and checking please feel free to. I know its easy to look at it and say its a no brainer that if people have to pay a few bucks for something they wont use it so thats the reason for the lack of fry for sale but the data clearly doesn't show that. The drop off happened the year before the change in 2016. Might there be a seller or two out that given the choice of paying $25 year to sell or sell them elsewhere for free would choose the free..sure maybe. The only thing that surprises me more than how generous a person can be is how cheap some can be.

[LizStreithorst]

Of course it a reasonable price. I just think that some people might be offended being asked to pay. I do the right thing and give the requested 10%. The only time I have not done that was once when I offered my fish at a discount to members here. That time I posted that I would donate 5%. I do what I believe to be right and fair. I understand that not everyone is like me. They just sell fish and say screw you to the place they sell them.

I'm done talking about this. By now I should be used to the fact that sometimes when I open my mouth people don't like what I have to say. It's one of the drawbacks to being honest.

[brewmaster15]

Of course it a reasonable price. I just think that some people might be offended being asked to pay. I do the right thing and give the requested 10%. The only time I have not done that was once when I offered my fish at a discount to members here. That time I posted that I would donate 5%. I do what I believe to be right and fair. I understand that not everyone is like me. They just sell fish and say screw you to the place they sell them.

I'm done talking about this. By now I should be used to the fact that sometimes when I open my mouth people don't like what I have to say. It's one of the drawbacks to being honest.

Liz did you even look at numbers I just posted?

al

[LizStreithorst]

You posted as I was writing. I read the numbers after what I posted.

I PM'd you back.

I would like very for this discussion to come to an end.

[Pardal]

Well
I just notice this thread now. IMO pay $25.00 for sale fish here is not , that bad as it is the average price of a single 2" juvie, so it won't affect that much. for the first timer we can also use a donation method with pick up locally as not everyone know how to pack and ship fish . If the person fail to honored the donation, member should be expose and forbidden to sell in the future. I personally still donate even though I am homestead and way before the police when I was platinum in the past, every time I sold my juvies or adults. One should support the forum , that is using. I have been in local fish clubs that just for joining to be a member there is an annual fee even if you never sale anything just to buy or get discounts . The same applies with Aquabid, Planet Catfish etc. if it happens I sell something there I make sure that I give a donation.
This year I haven been to lucky with my domestics pairs I guess they are starting to get old as they are 4 or 5 years now. I also have wilds crosses heckle/domestic that have some wrigglers , but not free swimming. I probably won't sale them anyway.
Julian.

[mbruizer187]

Whether it's fair to charge $25 a year to post on the fry section is not the question. The question is does it discourage people from posting their fry for sale because they don't want to pay the $25. My observation as a casual observer is that there has been a marked decrease in the number of people posting fry for sale since the new policy has been in effect. Is it because there are less people raising fry or is it because they didn't want to buy a premium membership? I don't know. Maybe it's a combination of both. The sale Al used as an example earlier was from a post almost a year old.

Martha Morris has nice home bred fry for sell on Aquabid right now. Why didn't she list them on Simply too? Is it because she didn't want to buy a Premium Membership? I don't know. Someone would have to ask her.

The fact is, there would probably be more postings of fry for sell and postings in the buy/sell section if it were free to do so. If the idea is to get more postings, than it should be free. If the idea is to receive fees for helping people sell stuff, than leave it the way it is. There just won't be as meany postings.


Martha's last post in her discus thread was 2014? yet sold them on Aquabid 2014-2018 so don't think it was a policy change that stopped that. $25 per year, to post to sell fish, and get discounts on new fish is an issue? Problem is people want want want, but don't want to give anything back. If you don't want to give something back be it knowledge or help through conversation here, or just a donation to lurk, buy and use the knowledge already given. Then why should you be able to use this place to take take take, without giving anything back? Is Al not basically supplying us with a means to buy and sell fish to the exact audience of people who would buy them? try that on craigslist? I have and if you can wait 2 months to get a response go ahead.

Thanks
Rich

[smsimcik]

Martha's last post in her discus thread was 2014? yet sold them on Aquabid 2014-2018 so don't think it was a policy change that stopped that. $25 per year, to post to sell fish, and get discounts on new fish is an issue? Problem is people want want want, but don't want to give anything back. If you don't want to give something back be it knowledge or help through conversation here, or just a donation to lurk, buy and use the knowledge already given. Then why should you be able to use this place to take take take, without giving anything back? Is Al not basically supplying us with a means to buy and sell fish to the exact audience of people who would buy them? try that on craigslist? I have and if you can wait 2 months to get a response go ahead.

Thanks
Rich

If you were referring to me as someone here who wants stuff and does not want to give anything back, let me assure you I have no dog in this fight. I was only making observations and asking questions.
I don't care one way or the other. I'll probably never post anything in the fry section or the for sale section so the policy doesn't affect me at all.

Even though some of us are not premium members, we do support the forum by buying Al's blackworms and making periodic donations.

[mmorris]

Well gosh...:) I sold a lot of sterbai cories on this forum, enough to pay the cost of the fish room, but then some time ago the market broke and I stopped breeding them. I stopped selling discus on this forum when the requirement to pay came in. I doubt I make a penny an hour raising discus. It's a labor of love. Many months I'm happy to cover my exorbitant electric bill. When I advertised discus here a couple of years back I also advertised on Aquabid and Craigslist. Almost all of my discus sales came from Aquabid and Craigslist. I got a lot of questions and shipping quote requests from Simply members, but very few sales. People who are looking to buy discus are encouraged to buy from the sponsors, the majority of whom are importers, and the hobbyists get almost no support. The question is, would I sell more fish if I advertised on Simply then if I advertise only on Aquabid and Craigslist? I certainly did with the cories but I don't think that would be true with discus. It implies that I have discus that I can't sell via Aquabid and Craigslist but I always sell what I have. So, the $25 was the deal breaker - paying it doesn't make good business sense. At the same time, I suspect people log in to Simply quite a bit to see what is for sale. Would inexpensive, home grown discus juvies not be an attractive draw? Or is the hobbyist a competitor of the sponsors?
Martha

[LizStreithorst]

Another thing that Sponsors have in their favor is that the ship so many fish that they get a big break on shipping costs. Shipping of Discus has to be by FedEx priority over night. The cost to folks who have a spawn or two to sell is over the top. I have done well selling Angels here but they can go USPS priority which cost a whole lot less.

[mmorris]

Good point about the shipping cost break, Liz. I ship two inch discus by USPS priority two day with almost no problems. I've had more problems with USPS express, believe it or not. I ship with oxygen, "Ship Shape" and 72 hour heat packs, of course.

[mbruizer187]

So you have earned enough selling cories on this forum to pay your fish room costs, but not enough to donate $25 to continue to sell?

Yes I partly agree that they encourage to buy from sponsors, but Its more that they encourage new people to the hobby to buy larger fish from a REPUTABLE source(not so much just sponsors) until they understand the care discus need, and we all know juvies take a lot more hence your "penny an hour raising".

I have nothing against anyone here personally, most have been here participating longer than me, just don't see how $25 donation to "Sell" gets everyone so angry like the forum is out to get them.(not necessarily you Martha) there have been posts about same topic recently!

Thanks
Rich

[Altum Nut]

Well I've been lurking this thread for sometime and really find it shocking how a $25 yearly premium membership can be a deal breaker that would turn a hobbyist breeder elsewhere to sell fish. Nothing wrong with someone posting sales in other forums and/or other sources but to hold a forum hostage and not agree to the forum rules that become otherwise public should really be voiced to the forum owner or admins via pm.
After all a hobbyist breeder can have multiple spawns of various of species to offer for sale and yet in a 12 month period find it difficult to understand a one time membership fee per year for multiple sales is hard to swallow.

...Ralph

[RogueDiscus]

I think Al's data points to a decline in the number of hobby breeders in general. It really is a labor of love, time and resource intensive, with little to no financial incentive. And out sponsors are bringing in very nice fish for folks to buy at reasonable prices. I do it because I enjoy the process, most of the time. And I have some vague goals, like trying to produce, or reproduce a high quality strain. I've always said that's what being a discus hobbyist is about for me, rather than being a fish keeper. Being a premium member to support this site just makes sense to me.

[sanjay21]

I think Al's data points to a decline in the number of hobby breeders in general. It really is a labor of love, time and resource intensive, with little to no financial incentive. And out sponsors are bringing in very nice fish for folks to buy at reasonable prices. I do it because I enjoy the process, most of the time. And I have some vague goals, like trying to produce, or reproduce a high quality strain. I've always said that's what being a discus hobbyist is about for me, rather than being a fish keeper. Being a premium member to support this site just makes sense to me.

I would love to get some fish from you one day Steve, I've seen some great posts here from members who bought from you and end result.

[RogueDiscus]

Thanks, Sanjay. I've got a pair of brown-based reds and a snakeskin pair active right now. If I can keep up, you'll see them on SD eventually.

[LizStreithorst]

I adore the Brown based reds.

[sanjay21]

Thanks Steve :)

[mmorris]

Well I've been lurking this thread for sometime and really find it shocking how a $25 yearly premium membership can be a deal breaker that would turn a hobbyist breeder elsewhere to sell fish. Nothing wrong with someone posting sales in other forums and/or other sources but to hold a forum hostage and not agree to the forum rules that become otherwise public should really be voiced to the forum owner or admins via pm.
After all a hobbyist breeder can have multiple spawns of various of species to offer for sale and yet in a 12 month period find it difficult to understand a one time membership fee per year for multiple sales is hard to swallow.

...Ralph
I donated a lot of money to this forum when I was new and really needed advice. I suspect I've donated more than most anyone who has posted on this thread. I did so without any need for public acknowledgment next to my name. I've contributed a lot of time to helping others, particularly in the breeding section. I agree to the forum rules; I don't advertise here. I stopped selling sterbais around the time the fee came in. The fee didn't turn me elsewhere. I was already selling discus elsewhere. I'm holding the forum hostage, Ralph?

[RogueDiscus]

I adore the Brown based reds.

Thanks Liz. Yes, there's something calming about their colors. And it helps when you get good parents.

[brewmaster15]

Hi,
First let me say that Martha's name was brought into this thread and discussed and I don't think we should be putting her or anyone on the spot like this.When she was new to the hobby and for a good while after she did donate to the site and support it often.I am very appreciative of that. I have known Martha since she first got into discus, that was actually at my house and at the Discus meetings we regularly had in the Northeast. Im.happy shes still breeding and selling her fry. Lets try not to alienate each other over this minor issue.Thanks

Its kind of sad this thread is even on here right now. Its garnered more attention than it should. The original question was whether having to pay a $25 fee per year is affecting the sale of discus fry here. Its really not. We heard from members that have sold fry most recently and they have backed that up.I posted data that clearly shows the decline long before the policy went into effect. The data is there for all to see. Martha's name was brought into this and even she says the reason she doesnt sell here is because she has a better market elsewhere. Obviously if thats true and she wants to move fish in her case it makes sense. Some people have benefited from selling in the forum.Others not. I honestly don't think if the section is free or not will make a difference. Even at its peak less than 20 hobbyists a year were selling homebred discus fry here at a time when the forum was hopping with several hundred members logged in at a time. Thats an incredibly small number of hobby breeders using the forum to sell. I honestly think there are far less hobby breeders that can raise quality fish to saleable size than is thought here.And fewer still comfortable in having experienced members here judging those fish.I think the decline we see is also attributed to less die-hard hobbyists breeding fish, increased shipping costs and a general decline in an interest to breed.I know many die hards have stepped back right now.Heck I did for a few years and am just starting up again.

Another question raised elsewhere was that the fee was based on greed on my part and was unreasonable. I admit this really bothered me given the time I have put into.this community. Members have sounded off that it was not unreasonable though..As for greed, that section of the forum was never a money maker when on the honor system few that used it donated and those that did donate, generally were already supporters of the forum. After the change it was not a money maker either.But with the change it was now one more benefit/perk to becoming a Premium member.And that was important to me as the forums owner. Premium memberships fund this site to a greater degree each year. People no longer click.on GOOGLE ads on the forum and use adblockers to block them. Sponsors market more on social media. Theres no soft coating it. Whether the forum continues on is in your hands. Im tapped out with real world expenses and will not be able to carry the forum as I have done in the past if it doesnt support itself. No Premium Memberships, no Forum.Period. If you like the forum and like it here when you log in, then support it. Post in the threads, become a premium member (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?104050) or donate (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/misc.php?do=donate) I won't kid you, I am trying hard to keep this site here for you all, but I need help. We have been at this 16 years, it getting more and more challenging each year.

I'd like to move on now.I feel the questions have been answered on this one. I may still just drop the fees there because honestly it doesnt matter either way and its been a real headache at a time when I don't need one.This thread has put a damper on my mood this weekend for sure and I know its not been great for others as well.

I am openly asking you all for your support.Not just financially but community wise. Participate here, post, discuss, answer questions,engage.and debate. That alone will probably help more than anything


Thank you all,
Al

[pastry]

I adore the Brown based reds.

+1