Liz's Contest Thread

[LizStreithorst]

I was so hot for this contest I was sure I would be the first to enter. But I found out the hard way that I can't take pics during the day due to the glare from the window and the lights. The tank is a 75 and with just 4 fish it's hard to get them all in the frame without a cube of Al's black worms. Other than the black worms I'm feeding Al's Discus Gold, some hard pellets from a small scale fish food maker, and their favorite mosquito larvae and blood worms that I culture myself. The tank is void of everything except sponge filters and a couple of heaters. So far I'm just changing 30% of the water daily but once I add the other fish I will up that to 50%.

The fish are from Chicago Discus. The Discus are close to breeding age. I am seeing some sparing among the males already. I purchased them to breed with a couple of my existing fish which I will add tomorrow.

The first pic is of the entire group. The second is of the fish that I'm pretty sure is a female.

[brewmaster15]

Glad to see you entered Liz. You have some real nice stock from Josie and Miranda! Looking forward to what you do with them.

Good luck!
Al

[Second Hand Pat]

Sure am glad you entered these guys in the contest Liz. I sure do want to see more of them...super nice fish. :D
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Thank you, Pat.

[Gabriel13]

Beautiful discus

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks Gabriel.

I just went down to do WC and it two of the 4 Discus I was planning on adding tomorrow are spawning. The male has very low fertility and the female is old. They have tried several times in the past couple of months but never manage to get enough wigglers to bother raising. Still, sure as shootin' if I move tomorrow I'll miss the spawn where they finally enough wigglers to raise. I might as well leave them in their love nest until I see how this spawn turns out.

[Gabriel13]

Congrats on the spawn! I think youre right. I would leave the love birds where they are for now. Please let us know how its going with this pair. Im looking for another group of growouts to occupy my other tank.

[LizStreithorst]

I had watched them spawn several times before. The poor male was dark with slime and as the female made her runs he was very solicitous of her but he could hardly even get it down to make passes. He made a couple of very half hearted attempts. Afterward he lovingly fanned the eggs until most of them turned white and only a few hatched. I felt so sorry for him. This time he actually made many good passes.

My hopes aren't high but I do have hopes. This is the pair that produced my best ever home bred Discus.

[Pices]

I’m watching this thread! Really beautiful fish Liz. I’m excited for you. It would be nice if your old pair pulled it off, but I like your plan B if they don’t. I’m just hoping you don’t turn me into a breeder like you turned me into an angel lover. I could’ve cared less about angels until I saw those half blacks.

[LizStreithorst]

It takes a whole bunch of tank space to grow out fry. You'd have to devote a small bed room or at least a large walk in closet to fish tanks. And remember, you have to figure out a way to do WC safely and efficiently before you even start. Besides with your work schedule I don't see how you could make it work.

[Swedgin]

Wow these are stunning, very natural looking for a domestic strain. Really beautiful

[Pices]

It takes a whole bunch of tank space to grow out fry. You'd have to devote a small bed room or at least a large walk in closet to fish tanks. And remember, you have to figure out a way to do WC safely and efficiently before you even start. Besides with your work schedule I don't see how you could make it work.

There’s no way I could make it work. If you do give me the breeding bug, it would be a future plan. I can barely keep up with the 3 tanks I have going now. The funny thing is my husband is the one who said it would be cool to breed them. He was never even a fish person.

[LizStreithorst]

If he wants you to breed so much have him build you a fish room.

[Second Hand Pat]

If he wants you to breed so much have him build you a fish room.

and assist with the work of breeding fish. :)
Pat

[Pices]

We accidentally bred juliochromis marlieri and neolamprolongus brichardi. When we tired of that we had an assortment of cichlids, 1 of each and ended up with a hybrid cross of brichardi/juliochromis. Long story short (not to hyjack your thread) I think my husband thought it would be like that. :focus: I do look forward to watching your adventure Liz.

[lastflea]

They are beautiful discus Liz. Good luck with them, and the competition. Rob :)

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks, Rob. I'll post more pics soon.

[LizStreithorst]

More pics of the group. For the life of me I can get them to pose.

[Gabriel13]

They are just stunning Liz.

[LizStreithorst]

Well, well, well, if I don't see flirtation. By best fish which I wanted to be a female but came to be more and more certain was male has taken up with the Chicago Discus female. A little bowing, twitching and cone pecking does not a pair make. It's a start though and just the type of pairing I was hoping for.

[Neo922]

Beautiful fish Liz, I like how the tank setup is so simple yet very functional :)

[LizStreithorst]

Here are a couple of crummy pics showing the two budding lovers.

[LizStreithorst]

My other existing fish wants to get in on the action but she is always rebuffed.

[Disgirl]

Wow they are beauties! And I am proud to see they like my cones! I have a feeling you will need some grow out tanks ready before long....
These are lucky discus to be living with you and getting your great care.
Barb

[LizStreithorst]

Beautiful fish Liz, I like how the tank setup is so simple yet very functional :)

Thank you Neo. I have found that keeping it simple is the best way to go.

[LizStreithorst]

Wow they are beauties! And I am proud to see they like my cones! I have a feeling you will need some grow out tanks ready before long....
These are lucky discus to be living with you and getting your great care.
Barb

Thanks Barb. I have two of your cones in the tank. I put the last cone you gave me in the tank last night. By this morning the fish were hot for it. They are ignoring the normal size cone that I got from you a while back.

My hopes are high but Discus have broken my heart so many times that I'm afraid of hoping this much. I have great anticipation and great fear at the same time if that makes sense.

[sanjay21]

Great looking stock Liz!

I really hope you have a success with the current spawn. Breeding Discus can be stressful at times, with 2 long days of patiently waiting you get disheartened seeing the eggs not hatching or parents not taking care. When you mentioned "Discus have broken my heart so many times.." I understand exactly what you mean :)

[LizStreithorst]

The pair that I had planned on adding to the tank kept on having fewer and fewer eggs. The male slightly fertile show fish was so devoted to the eggs that I figured the culprit was the female. The female is usually the culprit. I removed her and put her in the contest tank and the total dynamic of the contest tank has changed. Suddenly my best fish who is young and the smallest is the odd man out. The female Blue Scorpion is the largest fish. She seems to have taken over.

I don't know what's going on yet. When the other tank lights go out and I have no glare from the windows, and once everyone settles in I'll take pics. I hope I did the right thing. Sanjay breeding Discus can indeed be very stressful. When it's easy it's oh so easy but sometimes it can be very hard on you.

[danotaylor]

really pretty fish Liz...hope the pair forms a strong bond and your hopes are realized for them!

[Disgirl]

Ah yes, breeding discus is not for the faint of heart. Good thing you have a strong heart!
Barb

[Pices]

Weil those 2 seem quite smitten with each other!

[LizStreithorst]

Ah yes, breeding discus is not for the faint of heart. Good thing you have a strong heart!
Barb

I'm for sure not a sissy girl. Sometimes I question my intelligence by always coming back for more in face of all odds, but I'm not a giver upper.

[LizStreithorst]

Pics.

That big fish in the middle of the first pic is the Blue Scorpion I added to the tank. She sure 'nuf stirred things up. She is still trying to cause trouble. I don't know what her problem is but I don't think the other fish enjoy her intruding on their peaceful life.

I put in a low concentration of Roobios tea in a sock this morning. You will be able to see the brownish color to the water in the pics. I don't know if that's what gave these fish that sexual feeling or if it was the intruder or a combination of both, but suddenly I have 3 "pairs" who are enamored of one another. Right now I mostly care about my home bred Spotted Blue SS and his lady friend from Miranda and Josie.

[LizStreithorst]

Forgive me. This is all about my fish but I know what is going on with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjlSiASsUIs

[Gabriel13]

Omg! Lol that was awesome!:D

[LizStreithorst]

My existing male show fish ate the rest of his eggs this morning shortly after the lights came on, so I dumped him in with the contest fish. While 8 Discus is not to many for a 75 is is too many with big fish trying to pair up.

I hope that this doesn't disqualify me but I'm going to move them to a 120. It was quite a job finding room for all my Angels so I could empty the 120. First I moved all the adult Blue Silver Pearlscale Angel that were in a 100 to several smaller tanks. Next I moved all the Half Blacks from the 120 to the empty 100. I did wipe down on the newly emptied 120 and did a 100% WC. I added a couple more smaller heaters to the 120 (I'm low on heaters...need to buy more). Now I'm waiting for the temp to come close to 82 so I can move the Discus over. They will appreciate the extra elbow space. I'll move the Discus as soon as I can and if they settle in by this evening I'll post pics.

[Gabriel13]

Yeah low on heaters myself. I did a rookie move and ran my aged water container too low and burned up too heaters.:confused: So its off to the store I go to get more today, blah blah blah lol.

[LizStreithorst]

I've done the same thing more than once. If fact, that's why I need to buy more myself. I get mine from Jehmco.

[RogueDiscus]

Love the video. Marvin was one of a kind. Still is great.

[Pices]

Forgive me. This is all about my fish but I know what is going on with them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjlSiASsUIs

Liz, you are too funny. I love Marvin Gaye but had never seen the video.

[Larry Bugg]

They are gorgeous Liz. I was very jealous when you first got the ones from Ryan. Some of the nicest discus I had seen in a long time. The ones you got from Chicago ain't too shabby either, lol.

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks Mr. Bugg. Those Ricky Lim fish 'bout make me pee my pants when I saw them. The more I looked at them the less I could live without them. I hope I can get what I'm looking for when I cross with the Chicago Discus fish.

[brewmaster15]

My existing male show fish ate the rest of his eggs this morning shortly after the lights came on, so I dumped him in with the contest fish. While 8 Discus is not to many for a 75 is is too many with big fish trying to pair up.

I hope that this doesn't disqualify me but I'm going to move them to a 120. It was quite a job finding room for all my Angels so I could empty the 120. First I moved all the adult Blue Silver Pearlscale Angel that were in a 100 to several smaller tanks. Next I moved all the Half Blacks from the 120 to the empty 100. I did wipe down on the newly emptied 120 and did a 100% WC. I added a couple more smaller heaters to the 120 (I'm low on heaters...need to buy more). Now I'm waiting for the temp to come close to 82 so I can move the Discus over. They will appreciate the extra elbow space. I'll move the Discus as soon as I can and if they settle in by this evening I'll post pics.
Its not going to disqualify you. Its a logical move and fits with your goal of breeding this group.

al

[LizStreithorst]

That's a relief. Thanks.

[LizStreithorst]

It's been 24 hrs since the move. They've all settled. A bit of flirtation is going on but no real hanky-panky. It throws things off when you move a bunch of fish that are on the verge of getting serious. If I'd thought of it I'd have added a couple gallons of that hormone fulled water from their last home but I didn't think of it. Here's a pic. That's my home bred fish dark and staring at the cone in the middle. His old lady friend hasn't joined him yet though.

[Gabriel13]

Awesome group!

[LizStreithorst]

Thank you. I know that the fish are good and some are very good. That's not what I'm after. I want my existing fish to pair up with the new fish. It was happening when they were in the 75. This afternoon my existing fish are showing no interest in sex. The Chicago Discus 2 males and 2 female are showing a strong fondness for one another. That's not what I want.

I knew that I'd stir things up by moving the fish to a larger tank and I for sure did. I wasn't expecting to see pairings that I didn't want. I'll post a pic of what's going on in the tank this evening even if what is going on with them is not what I want to see going on.

[LizStreithorst]

I hope that this thread doesn't turn in to a cautionary tale about now one should not mix fish from different exporters with one's existing fish without proper QT. I can deal with the usual suspects. What I can't deal with is Discus Plague or Cryptobia. If I have a dread disease I an done with Discus forever.

I've been concerned about my home bred fish who is the smallest guy. He was dark and hanging by himself. This afternoon I saw that he had symptoms of what folks call "velvet". He is still eating well. People think that velvet is a fungus but it's really bacterial. I moved him to a 20 and am treating him with Nitrofurazone. Thank God I have been around long enough to know what to do.

All the rest of the fish appear to be doing well but I don't see the sexual behavior that I saw when they were in the 75. If the new fish were carrying something that was hidden that my existing fish had never seen it was time for me to see it.

My other, larger existing fish still appear to be fine but I am watching them carefully. What I don't see is that sexual behavior that I saw going on in the 75. I tried to take a pic of the contest tank but the sun is out and comes in through the window and produces a glare that ruins the pictures. I'll try again evening.

It would have easy for me to just quit posting to my contest thread after this problem presented itself, but I entered. I knew that I was taking a risk by mixing these fish without QTing them in a tank in the kitchen with sterile sponges, all separate WC equipment and nets. As long as I can fix my home bred fish and keep my existing fish healthy with huge WC I'll be happy. If they appear to be doing poorly I will treat them too. Like I said I can deal with the normal stuff. Having to do it is a downer when I least need to deal with a downer.

I asked for it and I got it.

[LizStreithorst]

I squeezed my sponges. Then I did a fish swimming on their sides WC. Then I felt the sides of the tank. They were too slimy so I did a wipe down, removed the breeding cones and put them in a Clorox solution. Then I did another swimming on their sides WC. Thank goodness I have huge water storage capacity. The fish look good but I know that I need to keep my eye pealed.

I don't have a large tank where I can treat a group of fish but I have empty 29's and 30's if I need to treat more fish. I hope not. I hope that I can take care of this with lots of good clean water.

[Disgirl]

Hang in there Liz, you can do this. You have much experience and know just what to do. Best wishes to you and your fish. And remember "dilution is the solution". Remember that?
Friend Barb

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks Barb. My veterinarian who I learned so much form said that. His words were, "The solution to pollution is dilution." It is so true. Here's a pic of the contest tank after two swimming on their sides WC. They look good, don't they? I can do huge WCs every day, even twice a day if I need to.

[Second Hand Pat]

Liz, sorry to hear you are having issues. Perhaps between mixing the fish and not sterilizing the 120 gave you a double whammy. Hopefully clean water will be the answer. Crossing body parts for you.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Thank you Pat. I watched the fish carefully and once they started talking to me I listened. I knew that I was doing the bad thing by mixing fish without proper QT. I think that I got what I deserved but not more than I deserve. I thank God that have been through hell with Discus in the past and know what to do when a problem presents itself. Thanks for crossing all your for me. I'll let you know when you can untangle yourself.;) It should be soon.

This is nobody's fault but my own. I'm pretty sure that I have a handle on it. Newbies who haven't been through hell with Discus like I have should take note. The newbies are the ones who do stupid stuff like I did and don't have a clue as to what to do when they are presented with "the usual suspects". They often don't see things until it's too late.

All will be well. I appreciate your concern.

[danotaylor]

I am a fish keper of 35 yrs but a novice with discus...to me they look great...you got this Liz :angel:

[Second Hand Pat]

Hope all will be well soon Liz, it's really hard to walk lol.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks folks. I moved another fish to a tank of his own and put him under medication this morning. My little dude is looking and acting great which gives me great encouragement.

I ordered some live California black worms from Dan earlier this week. I've always been a fan of live foods and my mosquito culture has about played out. The frogs have taken it over. I used to feed live black worms all the time but since FedEx Overnight has gotten so expensive I've done with out them for many years. I initially bought them as a treat for the contest fish. Now that I'm experiencing problems I'm glad I have them. None of the fish ever quit eating but it's good to know that I have something irresistible to give them.

I'll take a pic this evening but I must say that the 120 is looking pretty empty with just 6 fish and no cones in it. With luck I'll have everyone back together in the contest tank early next week.

[two utes]

Wow Liz! Just read through your thread. Lots of highs, and a few lows. A bit like a roller coaster ride and just as exciting. I'm sure you have taken all the positives from this and moved forward. Your discus are gorgeous by the way, and i know that with your experience they will receive the best of care.

Looking forward to further updates, and seeing your fish pair up and multiply.

Good luck with it all.

[LizStreithorst]

Wow Liz! Just read through your thread. Lots of highs, and a few lows. A bit like a roller coaster ride and just as exciting. I'm sure you have taken all the positives from this and moved forward. Your discus are gorgeous by the way, and i know that with your experience they will receive the best of care.

Looking forward to further updates, and seeing your fish pair up and multiply.

Good luck with it all.

I took a big risk by mixing fish from different breeders with my own fish. I knew in advance that I was doing the bad thing. I did it with eyes wide open. I was ready for the worst but what I got was just the normal stuff that was easy for me to deal with. It's nobody's fault but my own. It's not like I didn't know proper QT procedures. I've said before in this thread that sometimes I question my intelligence. I would not advise anyone to do what I did.

Things are looking good. I have 2 fish under treatment and both appear cured. The course of treatment is only 3 days. I should soon be home free soon but I'll give them a couple days in their QT tanks before I put them back into the contest tank.

The rest of them are fine so far. If I'm not mistaken about the incubation period I shouldn't be seeing symptoms of problems after today. I am still keeping a close eye. Why 2 of my existing fish got sick and 2 did not is a mystery to me. Who knows what pathogens my existing fish had been exposed to before I bought them? Exporters get their fish from several different sources. The ones that didn't get sick may have been exposed in Asia or their immune systems may be stronger. My home bred guy was a sitting duck. He was never exposed to anything.

If I had followed proper QT procedure this would never have happened. It's not the fault of the folks I bought the new fish from. I'm not here to trash them. It can happen with fish from any importer. I am the only guilty party.

[LizStreithorst]

I promised another pic. Here it is. I just tossed the fish some of Dan's live Black worms. Most of the fish are eating them from the water column. One has found where they hit the tank floor and is chowing out there.

[LizStreithorst]

I have a bad habit of forgetting to post the pic. Please forgive me and blame it on my old age.

[Pices]

I knew you would nip this in the bud. I wish I could recognize, diagnose and treat as quickly as you did. I’d still be reading threads. When this is over, they can get back to their “sexual healing” I’m sure you’ll be puttin some smooooth music on the stereo for them real soon.

[LizStreithorst]

I didn't take a pic yesterday because it was just same old same old. I did notice after WC yesterday evening that one of my existing male 9 bar fish and one of the Chicago Discus fish showing an interest in one another. This morning my big blue scorpion female who up to now had been the tank bully has taking a liking to the largest Chicago Discus female.

I wasn't planning on adding cones and tea to the tank until I put the fish in QT back in the tank, but once I saw this flirting going on I gave in and added both just now. Both those pairings would make me happy, especially the BS and Classic Blue Leopard pairing. If I see pecking at the cones after sun goes down I will take pics then.

The two fish that were feeling unwell are perfectly happy. My home bred spotted SS had his last treatment yesterday. I will put him into the contest Wed. evening after 2 days of swimming on the side WC with good clean water. The big male domestic RSG had his last treatment and will be added to the big tank Thursday.

[LizStreithorst]

I knew you would nip this in the bud. I wish I could recognize, diagnose and treat as quickly as you did. I’d still be reading threads. When this is over, they can get back to their “sexual healing” I’m sure you’ll be puttin some smooooth music on the stereo for them real soon.

Patty I for sure couldn't have done this when I was new. You're way ahead of what I was able to do when I was at your stage.

You can learn a whole lot by reading but after you have seen a problem in the past you become able to identify it quickly. I've said before that I've been through all kinds of rarely seen devastating diseases of Discus. The one good thing about going through hell is that I gained a great deal of knowledge that I wouldn't have gained otherwise.

Any normal person would have given up after having experienced Cryptobia and Discus Plague. I never totally gave up. Now I'm seeing the silver lining in those clouds. One thing for sure is that if I get success this time around I will believe that I have earned it.

[Second Hand Pat]

Liz, discus people are not normal LOL. More like :crazy:
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Too true.

[Pices]

I am learning more everyday but Crytobia and Discus Plaque are 2 things I’d prefer to never know about. I wouldn’t be this far in my curve if not for you 2 gals and many others here. You’ve made me an overall better fish keeper.
Pat was even took part when I found my quote. Ha ha I said I may have even found my quote, “If the discus are happy everybody’s happy” Pat replied, that I was definitely happy! And so it was...

[LizStreithorst]

This is a terrible pic but the best I could do. My big bull BS female is more interested in terrorizing the other pair wanting to spawn than in getting down to business with her own love interest. I'll try to do better tomorrow.

[LizStreithorst]

My big bully Blue Scorpion continues to terrorize all the other fish. She decided that she liked the cone in the middle. I figured that the middle cone would be left for the lowest pair on the totem pole. The Bully chose it so that she could attack fish that were considering cones on either end of the tank. She has taught her chosen male to do the same. This cannot go on. I shall remove the middle cone so at least the more submissive fishl can at least go to the other corner to escape her. If that doesn't work I'll remove her and her fella to a breeding tank of their own. She is an extremely good quality fish but if she keeps this up I will have no choice but to remove her and her partner from the contest tank.

[two utes]

This is a terrible pic but the best I could do. My big bull BS female is more interested in terrorizing the other pair wanting to spawn than in getting down to business with her own love interest. I'll try to do better tomorrow.

Are they Barb's 12 inch cones stacked up Liz?

[LizStreithorst]

One cone is one of Barbs tall cones. Her others are her cones stacked up. These are large Discus and when the Discus are big they prefer a tall cone.

[LizStreithorst]

I have kept and bred Discus for a long time but I have never before see the aggression that I am seeing now. I wanted to buy Discus that were close to breeding age but I never expected what I am seeing now!

My bully pair has chosen a cone in the right side corner of the tank. Another pair wants the cone on the left side. The poor two fish who are stuck in the middle without a cone still get beat up by the other pairs. No fish is getting so beat up that it is in trouble but one poor less forceful fish has bite marks on both of his sides, and there is still fighting going on. If I knew how to work my phone I would post a video but I only know how to post stills from my Nikon.

My friends at the LPS say that they will take 12 adult Angels that I will take to them tomorrow. That will open up 2 40 gallon cubes that I can devote to the 2 pairs of Discus. I still have 2 Discus in QT that I want to introduce into the contest tank later this week.

I'm afraid that my contest thread is not going according to plan by a long shot. I have no choice but to do what the fish demand. This is more about doing the right thing for the fish than winning a silly contest.

[Loosir]

I'm afraid that my contest thread is not going according to plan by a long shot. I have no choice but to do what the fish demand.

Haha Liz, how is this different than keeping Discus?

[LizStreithorst]

It's way different from any Discus keeping I've done in the past. These dang fish are warriors!

[Adam S]

Well, you moved them from a 75 to a 120. Maybe they figured an even bigger tank was in the works if they kept being ornery. :evilgrin:

[Pices]

I think following your story on your tank of fish is within contest rules. If this is the story and you have to separate them, well that’s the story and I’m interested in it.
The way I understood the rules as far as one tank was that you couldn’t put a bunch of different tanks (meaning fish) in 1 thread. These are the original fish and I think you should be able to tell your hobby/story with them. That is the name of the contest after all.
Probably some people here would like to have less competition, but I would remind them that they too will have things come up. We all do. That’s part of fish keeping-especially with discus. Can I get an Amen?
Besides, I want to hear that song again! Baaaaaabyyyy
Patty

[LizStreithorst]

I have another 120 and some 100's that are filled with nice Angels. I shall make those tanks available to the Discus if needs be. (Don't ask how I will do this. You don't want to know.)

These fish aren't just ornery, they're bar brawling red neck 'orny ornery. The females are are as bad as the males. I've never seen such even when I tended bar in a redneck joint and we had the cops on speed dial.

I can just see me with one tank with one pair of Discus in a 120. Not what I was expecting but it would be cool if the pair took a spawn to free swimming in a 120. There's no way I'll move the dominant pair from the contest tank.

[LizStreithorst]

I interpret the rules differently, Patty. I will post threads about the other pairs, just not in this thread.

[Loosir]

Liz, if it’s not too obscene, I’d love to see the videos of the bar fights

[LizStreithorst]

I can't. I don't know how to work my phone well enough to take and post videos's. I guess it's time I figured out how.

[LizStreithorst]

I turn my back so that I can relax for a moment and take a deep breath and what do I see when I go back down to the fish room? My female bully Blue Scorpion has said a nice tight clutch of eggs and her chosen one is fertilizing them. I took pics and will go through them now and see if I got any decent ones.

[LizStreithorst]

This is the first pic I came across that is good enough for you to see what has happened to me. What goes around comes around. The dominant pair is doing their thing why one of the pairs they have been beating up is waiting their chance to chow down on the eggs. What goes around comes around.

[LizStreithorst]

Wrong pic.

[LizStreithorst]

Here's Mrs. Fierce protecting her chosen one from the hoards while he does his does his job.

[Pices]

I interpret the rules differently, Patty. I will post threads about the other pairs, just not in this thread.
As long as you follow the dominant pair in the contest thread. I thought you were disqualifying yourself altogether. Now that would be a shame!
Not as big a shame as what you are planning to do to those angels. Aaaaahhhh Don’t tell me:eek:

[LizStreithorst]

The eggs are still there this afternoon. The other fish aren't hanging around like they were. They're fighting among themselves in the other 2/3 of the tank.

[Pices]

That’s great! I guess you’re playing this song now.

http://youtu.be/bmfudW7rbG0

[LizStreithorst]

I added my little guy and although he's not that much smaller than the others a little means a lot when you're a fish and you are all muscle. He was starting to take a little abuse so I decided to add the big guy a bit early. He was officially due to go back to the big tank in the morning but I won't be around to keep an eye on them until tomorrow afternoon and he is cured...And that's when the big fight started.

I put him in the opposite side from the pair and he immediately swam to the cone where his ex-wife was guarding eggs with her new lover. They gave one another the loving rub on the side and her current lover got furious! He did his best to beat the big guy up but the big guy is larger and he was having a hard time. He was determined that this lady fish and the eggs were his. The few times the big guy was able to get close to the eggs he fanned them. I never saw him eat them.

The female has helped her new lover drive the old husband away twice. Mostly she keeps the other fish in their place. He has visited the cone on the opposite side but so far the only lady fish he wants is his ex. If she persists in sticking by her new guy I'm pretty sure MR. Big will give up and choose a different lady fish.

[LizStreithorst]

I could use a bit of advice. I don't know if I'm allowed to ask for advice on this thread or if I have to just go it alone. I see no rule against adding advice.

I'm not big on adding salt, but some of the fish in this tank have swollen lips from fighting and lip locking. I'm thinking of adding salt to this tank, just to act as to help the feel the fish feel better. I'm thinking of maybe 8 Tablespoons of salt in this 120 gallon tank. It's not a full dose but my feeling is that it will help the fish.

[Adam S]

It certainly won't hurt, but I'm not sure 8 tbs do anything good either. 12 tbs (3/4 cup) is barely a weak tonic dose.

[LizStreithorst]

I know that Adam. I wanted to go light on the dose. I guess that 1 T per 10 gallons is the weak dose. I'll give them a hard look after WC a bit later and decide what to do. Clean water takes care of 'most all minor problems but these guy have been fighting a lot. Thanks for your advice.

[LizStreithorst]

The first pair removed the white eggs as well as quite a few that were not white. I see plenty of fertile eggs still on the cone but even when put one pair of eye glasses over another I couldn't see any tails sticking out of them. Of course the fish know when the eggs start to hatch before I do. They'll either eat them or protect them. I just have to wait and see.

The other fish are on the other end of the tank where a female is spawning. No male has gotten it down for her so the other fish are chowing down on her eggs. It's somewhat disheartening but the tank is full of adult fish. They all have that sexual feeling but the males are being stupid.

I did decide to add salt. I'm hoping that it will soothe them enough to calm down and get it together,

[LizStreithorst]

Good news and bad news. The good news is that peace has been restored. The bad news is that all the eggs are gone,

[Pices]

I’m sorry Liz. I saw your thread at the top and was hoping to see wigglers. Doesn’t it usually take them a few tries before they get it right? Still, I was disappointed and I know you are.
Patty

[LizStreithorst]

I half way expected it, Patty. That female ate eggs when she was with her former husband. It's strange because she raised spawns when she was younger.

I looked at my big lips fish. I'd been concerned about them for days. They just never looked right. I saw no evidence of Velvet but they were dark and never lightened up ever. They shouldn't have velvet because they're Chicago Discus fish. The salt I added with my last WC didn't help at all. I finally gave in and put the 2 in a 29 with Nitrofurazone.

Reading this thread it looks like I toss fish in meds at the drop of a hat. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I know that did right when I treated the first fish that became ill. These recent 2 fish never seemed to get better but never seemed to get worse. They just didn't look right. I hope I did the right thing. I'll know after a day or two.

[LizStreithorst]

It's relaxing to have a tank of content fish where everyone is getting along. I hope it lasts for a while.

[Pices]

My angel tank is peaceful too, but we both know it won’t last.
You know how to listen to your fish so I doubt anyone would think you throw in meds too quickly. Are you treating them for battle wounds?
Im trying to pick your brain on treatments to learn from someone with your experience. The hardest thing for me is trying to find out what the problem is.
Patty

[Jack L]

Liz...one of the best on this board.

[LizStreithorst]

I don't know everything, Patty. I had 1 fish that didn't look right. The swollen lips might have been due to fighting. It could have been dark because it had been fighting. It was also tilting down about 15%. It's not much but it kept not changing. Something had to be wrong. A bit later there was another fish that looked off to me.

I treated the fish which had obvious sympotms with Nitrofurazone and they got better fast. I thought that this new development was most likely due to the same thing. Perhaps they had some immunity but not enough to ward off the bacterial disease. This happened when I had Discus Plague. Angels had been through Angelfish Plague before my time. It's he same herpes virus as Discus Plague. All domestic Angels now have immunity to that virus. My Discus were sitting ducks. When the disease was going hot and heavy the Angels started showing symptoms as well. The difference was that the Angels responded immediately to treatment while the Discus did not. I don't know if this happens with bacterial infections (I bet that since you're a nurse you would know).

At any rate, I decided to use the same treatment on these 2 Discus that didn't look right because it worked with the last 2 that showed obvious symptoms. It seemed to me to be the most obvious thing to do. The fish that was just barely off started looking perfect a few hours after the treatment. The other fish is making progress. She no longer tilting down. Her lips are not nearly as swollen, but she is still darker than she should be. I did the most obvious thing. (Remember, when it looks like a horse it's is usually a horse. It doesn't often turn out to be a zebra.)

[LizStreithorst]

Liz...one of the best on this board.

Thank you, Jack but there are a ton of Discus folks who know more than I. Re-sellers don't like to put their bad experiences out for the world to see. They know but they are concerned that it would reflect badly on them. I'd keep this to myself but when I entered this contest I was committed to tell the full story.

[Pices]

I know you play it down, but Liz you are one of the best. I think we all learn from our failures more than our successes. Hell I just ordered a microscope for crying out loud. You taught me how to sterilize my 75 gal before I put my new discus in it and I’d never done that. Little did either of us know it would eventually be the home of your angels. They are the hungriest healthiest fish I’ve ever had-every bit as healthy as Kenny’s and exceptionally packed. That’s your reputation and you should be proud of your skills. I wished you raised the other fish on my wish list. It would be a lot easier for me.
As far as antibiotics go it is kind of the opposite with humans. Bacteria can build up a resistance to an antibiotic and a stronger one is needed. Maybe you used something stronger or caught it earlier in your angelfish and that’s why they responded quicker. That’s why I ask the question. You spot things quickly before they get out of hand. My current sick discus in your capable hands would’ve been back swimming with her buddies weeks ago.
With humans you have a number of tests that can help find and treat the problem. With fish, we only have other fish keepers.

[LizStreithorst]

All my fish looked perfectly healthy this morning. I'll be introducing the fish that weren't looking right around Wed. of next week. In the contest tank everything is still peaceful. I have some gentle flirting but that's all.

I will not put in a sock of Roobios tea until I decide that there are no other problems that might crop up. The tea seems to get them turned on and I won't be ready for them to get it on until I am sure that all is well. Al thinks that the tea is snake oil. Pat likes it. She was the one who turned me on to it. I see it's effects on the fish with my own eyes. I'm not ready for all that fish sex going on right now.

[LizStreithorst]

I haven't posted in a few days because all was calm. Last yesterday afternoon I re-introduced the 2 fish I was concerned about. Before lights out I noticed my big bully Blue Scorpion looking at the cone but she didn't look very serious about it and there was no fella hanging with her.

Low and behold when I got up this morning she had spawned. She chose her first husband. Now when she's guarding the eggs her husband terrorizes the other fish and when he's guarding she goes on her rampage. Here we go again...

You really can't see the eggs in the pic. but it's the best I could do.

[sanjay21]

Nice :) that's a pretty pair. Hope they work for you.

[LizStreithorst]

It's the pair that produced by best fish. Since then they have eaten their eggs and wigglers. But if they want to give it another try who am I to say no?

[LizStreithorst]

Mama Bear is putting her foot down. I will remove the bully pair from the 120 thus removing them from the contest. I have other fish in the tank that are shimmying and shaking and pecking at the cone but if they aren't run off from their cone by the bully pair one of the other fish runs them off. The fish need more space. The bully pair are proven egg eaters so they are my choice to remove to another tank

I got a 40 cube ready for them with all fresh clean water. I added a sock or Roobios tea. As soon as the 40 gets up to 82 I'll take the cone and move it, then net the fish and move them. If they happen to have success I'll post about them in another thread.

[LizStreithorst]

With the terrorist pair now in a isolation cell and 6 fish with 3 cones in a 120, why oh why are 5 fish fighting over one single cone? The first pic is the same as the second. I don't know why it uploaded so crazy the first time.

[Pices]

OMG that is so funny! I read that and cracked up!

[LizStreithorst]

Holy moly! I just went down to the fish room the take a peak at the fish. I not only have one pair spawning, I have two pairs spawning! My little guy fought his best for his to capture his chosen lady's heart but he is the smallest male so the female opted for a larger male. My little guy and the Chicago rejected guy are both males. I guess I'll need to remove them. I haven't decided yet where they will go.

I can't take pics now because of the glare. I'll do it after the sun goes down.

[LizStreithorst]

Here's one pair. Sorry for the crappy pic. I'll do better tomorrow.

[LizStreithorst]

Here's a crappy pic of the other pair.

[LizStreithorst]

The second pic has the Chicago Discus female that my best little dude fought hard for. Stupid female chose size over quality. The fish got back and forth across the tank checking out the other pairs' spawns. I'll bet you a nickel that the eggs of both pairs will be eaten by fish from the pair way over on the other end of a 120 long. That's OK with me. I almost hope for it. My plan is to cross my best dude to his female of choice.

I thought once before that I would have another pair spawning in this big tank all by them selves. After these guys fail, as I'm sure they will, I will move all the other fish out and put him in alone with his first love. He is my best fish. He is horney and he is fearless. She'll like him. His are the babies I most yearn to work with. The other pairs can wait.

[LizStreithorst]

Still have eggs this morning :)

[LizStreithorst]

Full tank shot.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Liz, been gone for a week so catching up. You removed the most aggressive pair to their own tank and now have two breeding pairs in the "contest" tank?
Pat

[Pices]

I love this story. Your discus are like a box of chocolates-you never know what you’re gonna get (from one day to the next). The full tank shot really gives a good perspective of the distance between the 2 cones. Now I wonder if they are just far enough apart not to get eaten and what will happen if you get wigglers? This is getting exciting.
Patty

[LizStreithorst]

Hi Liz, been gone for a week so catching up. You removed the most aggressive pair to their own tank and now have two breeding pairs in the "contest" tank?
Pat

That's right, Pat. That pair is my best pair but they have become constant eaters of their kids and all they did in the contest tank was terrorize the other fish.

[LizStreithorst]

I love this story. Your discus are like a box of chocolates-you never know what you’re gonna get (from one day to the next). The full tank shot really gives a good perspective of the distance between the 2 cones. Now I wonder if they are just far enough apart not to get eaten and what will happen if you get wigglers? This is getting exciting.
Patty

I thought about that all night in my sleep. If one pair gets wigglers and the other pair doesn't I'll remove the pair that didn't get wigglers and leave the pair that did in the show tank. If no eggs hatch I'll or all eggs get eaten I'll leave both pairs in and let them try again. If both pairs have wigglers I'm not sure yet what I will do.

[Second Hand Pat]

I thought about that all night in my sleep. If one pair gets wigglers and the other pair doesn't I'll remove the pair that didn't get wigglers and leave the pair that did in the show tank. If no eggs hatch I'll or all eggs get eaten I'll leave both pairs in and let them try again. If both pairs have wigglers I'm not sure yet what I will do.

Use a piece of poet foam from Swiss Tropical to separate the pairs Liz. I did that in my 230 when the Tefe's spawned. It worked like a champ. :)
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

I just realized that one pair is a pair of Chicago Discus fish. The tank was so dark with tea that I couldn't tell for sure at first. That's not what I want. I want the Chicago Discus fish to cross with my existing fish that I got from Ryan.

I don't want to stir things up now but at some point I would like to remove that Chicago Discus male and reintroduce my best fish who fought hard for that female. Would that be allowed? If so I will order the poret foam.

[LizStreithorst]

Both pairs had more than their share of white eggs but the Chicago Discus fish are slowly eating theirs while the pair I want is still taking good care of theirs. It's too soon for me to be able to see eye spots in the eggs. If I put on two pairs of glasses I should be able to see fertile eggs tomorrow. The anticipation is killing me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NwP3wes4M8

[RogueDiscus]

I think I need to make a flow chart! :) Keep it up Liz.

[LizStreithorst]

I didn't think that it would be so complicated either. I have my demands of the fish and the fish have their demands to me. I'm doing my best to have our two needs met.

[Disgirl]

Wow, how exciting Liz!!!!!!
Barb

[Pices]

10 am and I’m already checking your thread to see if you’ve seen eyespots! :coffee:
Patty

[LizStreithorst]

lol Good things come hard. No joy this time. The eggs kept getting fewer and fewer. This morning the pair I didn't like had none. The pair I like had few. After work this afternoon they are all gone. I saw the writing on the wall this morning and took out the male I didn't want and put my spotted snakeskin male. The Poret foam is on order.

[Pices]

Is that the one that fought for her and lost? Hope she comes to her senses now.
Patty

[LizStreithorst]

Yes, He's that guy. I call him my little guy but he's catching up with the others fast.

[sanjay21]

Liz, I'm really liking tanned look on your tanks. I know you mentioned using Rubio tea leaves ? I would like to give that a try to a pair tank with one of them being a Wild. Is there anything I need to be considering ? while doing water changes or any pros and cons using that ? Thank you :)

[LizStreithorst]

I got my information from Pat. She the one who turned me on to it. She uses 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. I use 1 tablespoon per 20 unless I see pairs wanting to breed in which case it I increase it. I put it in a nylon lady's knee high stocking and hang it in the tank. I find that the tea has given up all it has to give in a day so I put in a new sock full every day after WC. The amount of tea I use depends on the amount of water I change. I buy my tea here. https://www.amazon.com/Davidsons-Tea-Organic-African-16-Ounce/dp/B000SATIE6/ref=sr_1_6_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1530552837&sr=8-6&keywords=rooibos%2Btea%2Bloose&th=1

[RogueDiscus]

Do you ever just "make tea" with it and then add it?

[sanjay21]

I got my information from Pat. She the one who turned me on to it. She uses 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. I use 1 tablespoon per 20 unless I see pairs wanting to breed in which case it I increase it. I put it in a nylon lady's knee high stocking and hang it in the tank. I find that the tea has given up all it has to give in a day so I put in a new sock full every day after WC. The amount of tea I use depends on the amount of water I change. I buy my tea here. https://www.amazon.com/Davidsons-Tea-Organic-African-16-Ounce/dp/B000SATIE6/ref=sr_1_6_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1530552837&sr=8-6&keywords=rooibos%2Btea%2Bloose&th=1

Great info ! As long as it benefits the fish to make it calming atmosphere I would want to give it a try :)

I have a bunch of Almond leaves(dried) in my house was wondering if I can use the tanned water you get when you boil them, to any use ? Have you or anyone here considered that to be beneficial for anything at all ?

[LizStreithorst]

Do you ever just "make tea" with it and then add it?

I have made tea with it and drunk it myself. It's quite tasty. I don't see why doing it your way wouldn't work for the fish.

[RogueDiscus]

Yes, I bought some a while back (Liz's Amazon source) and enjoyed the tea. I used in one tank for a while but haven't kept it up.

[LizStreithorst]

It's actually Pat's Amazon source.

[LizStreithorst]

I've been thinking and hoping and wishing and praying but the fish have lost that loving feeling. I am cursed.

[Second Hand Pat]

I've been thinking and hoping and wishing and praying but the fish have lost that loving feeling. I am cursed.

They are all just off taking a smoking break :)
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ealNayCkaU

[Pices]

Smoke break is over. Time to play something else like maybe.

http://youtu.be/_d48ALUVA6Y

[LizStreithorst]

I got my Poret foam today. They are good there. They cut it to size.

I'm ashamed to say this but I haven't done WC for two days. I wasn't feeling well. Today I'll give that 120 they're in a flopping on the bottom WC. I don't know if it is true, but I have heard that if the fish feel threatened by bad water, when you put in good clean water it get them in the mood. I bet that's why I had all that pairing when I first put the fish from Chicago Discus together with my existing fish.everyone got horny.

[LizStreithorst]

Well, something worked. Eggs this morning. Pics this evening.

[LizStreithorst]

I didn't post pics yesterday as I said I would. I'll take pics after WC which I'm fixing to do now. So far it the same thing than I'm used to seeing. The eggs look fertile. Even without my glasses on they are hard and dark like good eggs should be. The problem is that they keep getting fewer and fewer. All I can do is hope that the pair figures out how to do it right. There are still enough eggs for them to raise if their brains turn on. I'm very afraid that once the tails emerge from the eggs they will become an treat for the pair. Nothing I can do but wait and see and hope for the best.

[LizStreithorst]

No sense in me posting pics now. After WC 'most all of the eggs are gone. It's a disappointment that I was pretty much expecting,

[sanjay21]

I didn't post pics yesterday as I said I would. I'll take pics after WC which I'm fixing to do now. So far it the same thing than I'm used to seeing. The eggs look fertile. Even without my glasses on they are hard and dark like good eggs should be. The problem is that they keep getting fewer and fewer. All I can do is hope that the pair figures out how to do it right. There are still enough eggs for them to raise if their brains turn on. I'm very afraid that once the tails emerge from the eggs they will become an treat for the pair. Nothing I can do but wait and see and hope for the best.

Liz, have you tried cleaning the tank really well with PP ? I believe most of the times eggs go bad not because of the tds but the bad bacteria that kills the eggs. I make this statement cause I tried RO water in my tank and eggs didn't hatch, but when I move the eggs to a separate container with RO - eggs hatched. Container is clean so maybe no bad stuff in it at all. Just my thoughts :)

[LizStreithorst]

I really don't think that's the problem but next time I get some action I'll drip some meth blue on the eggs. I believe that my existing Ricky Lim that I'm crossing to are egg eaters. If my home grown male ever gets it on with Chicago Discus lady I think I will get results. He was horny yesterday morning but she was not. No shimmying of cone pecking from him today. Perhaps she'll feel more in the mood next week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CI-0E_jses

[LizStreithorst]

Just like I figured the pair that spawned a week or so ago have eggs again. I decided just to leave them alone for now. If I see eggs disappearing I'll take out one of the parents.

[LizStreithorst]

Love ain't in the air around here but it sure is in the water. The female in with my favorite dude is spawning and he is fertilizing. This is the thing that I have been most hoping for. I'm trying to keep my excitement in check because Discus have disappointed me so many times, but my heart is beating fast.

[Pices]

YES! The wave of best things that could’ve happened continues! I’m excited for you! Ride the wave Liz! Whoop whoop!!

[LizStreithorst]

Same old story. Eggs gone by yesterday afternoon. I have to bear in mind that among these 2 pairs there is only one fish with experience.

[Pices]

Oh, I hope they get it right next time. At least they are a couple now.

[LizStreithorst]

Both pairs spawned yesterday evening. This morning I dripped meth blue on the eggs. I asked for 2 egg guards with the cones I bought from Barb's sale a weak ago but they haven't had time to arrive yet. The pair I want most to be successful chose spawned on the lift tube, anyway.

[Second Hand Pat]

Crossing fingers Liz :)
Pat

[Disgirl]

You might get the box tomorrow, Monday. Maybe just in time to wrap a guard around the lift tube! Good luck,
Barb

[LizStreithorst]

The eggs from my favorite pair were eaten this morning. Next time I'll put in a sponge without a lift tube, give the them a brand new cone that has been blessed by Barb, and put a cage over the eggs.

The other pair has eggs that look good. They have eaten all the white ones and unfortunately some of the good ones.

As an aside, remember my pair of existing fish, the parents of my best fish? I removed them from the contest tank because they had done nothing but eat all their eggs ever since they started spawning again. I was fairly sure that the male was sterile. They spawned the day before the two contest pairs. I had one cage that Barb sent me a while back. After I dribbled meth blue on their eggs I covered their cone with a cage. It turns out that although the male has very low fertility he still has some juice left. They have about 20 wigglers today.

[Disgirl]

Yahooey!!! Those could be some precious fry if the parents can take care of them for awhile.

[Pices]

Wow Liz that’s great news!

[LizStreithorst]

As expected, the eggs from the second pair in the contest tank were eaten overnight.

If the wigglers from the pair that are no longer in the contest attach when they free swim I will start a separate thread about them.

[LizStreithorst]

Oh my! Love is in the water again. All this rubbing, shimmying, and cone pecking is almost too much for an old lady like me. Be still my heart...

[LizStreithorst]

The best spawned shortly after the lights when out last night. I have dribbled meth blue, put the cage over the eggs, and have my fingers crossed yet again.

[LizStreithorst]

Pair two spawned early this afternoon. Way more eggs with these because the female is one of my existing fish, so older. Same drill...meth blue, cage over cone, and this time toes crossed.

[Pices]

I hope the magic happens this time. Every time I get excited for you I jinx it. I’m cautiously hopeful, and will be calmly glued to this thread in the meantime. Ha ha
Patty

[LizStreithorst]

You don't jinx me, Patty. The problem is with me. I am cursed but I keep trying regardless.

This morning there are more white eggs than good eggs with the my number 1 pair, but a ton of good eggs with the number 2 pair.

[LizStreithorst]

No good news. All the number 1 pair's eggs are white and fungused. I pulled of the cage and dad pulled off the bad eggs, cleaned them of in his mouth, and tried to blow them back on the cone. Most of the 2nd pair's eggs are white and I don't have much hope for the rest.

The problem must be with my water. Back when I found that the tea worked for breeding I sold my RO unit. That was a long time ago. I'll have to depend on rain water and it has been very dry here with just enough rain to dampen the ground. They say our best chance of a good rain tomorrow but it is expected to only be a half inch. I set up rain barrels this morning and will hope for the best.

[LizStreithorst]

This is great! We are having a huge downpour! My rain water containers are filling up :)

[RogueDiscus]

Please ship it to me! Boy, what we wouldn't give for some rain right now.

[LizStreithorst]

Please ship it to me! Boy, what we wouldn't give for some rain right now.

I need to keep mine. Ask Barb if she can ship. She has had so much rain that she's almost floating.

[RogueDiscus]

Yes, wow. Eastern North Carolina. That was in the middle of the floods, right?

[LizStreithorst]

yep

[LizStreithorst]

The pairs are flirting and cone pecking again. I did all I could do. I changed 1/3 of their water with rain water and gave them big socks of tea as well. Not much rain coming in the foreseeable future and I only have about 30 gallons of rain water left. I hope they get down to business soon.

[Willie]

This is great! We are having a huge downpour! My rain water containers are filling up :)

That's why there's so much loving in the air! :p

[RogueDiscus]

That's why there's so much loving in the air! :p

And of course we just had a full moon and the longest lunar eclipse in ages... :)

"When the moon hit's your eye like a big pizza pie...."

[LizStreithorst]

I got a good spawn from the pair I removed from the contest because I thought that the male was infertile and the female was terrorizing all the other fish. I knew that my number one pair was on the verge of spawning after feeding and WC yesterday evening. But my back was hurting so badly that I went to bed to rest at 6 pm. I woke up at 8 so I could lock the chickens in their house. (If I don't do this a critter will get one) I knew that I should check the fish but I figured that the eggs would still be there today and went back to bed. I had a marathon sleep and it did me good, but when I went down to the fish room this morning I saw the female of the number 1 pair guarding 2 eggs. They hadn't just started spawning because there was not a breeding tube in sight. Oh well, I made a mistake and paid for it.

The number 2 pair is generally a day or 2 behind the number one pair when it comes to spawning. I see no flirty action yet but I'm watching carefully. My old female lays a lot of legs and the Chicago Discus is young and very fertile.

[LizStreithorst]

Finally something to report. My best pair spawned yesterday afternoon. I pulled the cone, dripped meth blue and put the cone back in the tank. As I was putting the cone back in, my male (my best fish) attacked me. He was so furious he jumped out of the water. Their tank is next to the box I keep my foods in so rather than landing on the floor he just fell a into the plastic bags of fish food.

He had attacked me once before during a water change. I was surprised at his ferocity because he splashed water all over my face. This dude is a Pitt Bull when it comes to guarding his eggs.

I'm sure that there is little rain water left in this tank since I ran out and we have had no rain, but the tank is dark with tea so my fingers are crossed once again.

[Disgirl]

So are mine Liz, toes too (that hurts a bit).
Barb

[Adam S]

In addition to meth blue/peroxide/whatever, something I had marginal success with was soaking the eggs in distilled water for a few hours about an hour after the spawn. May be worth a shot if they keep giving you a hard time.

[LizStreithorst]

I'll keep it in mind, Adam.

[LizStreithorst]

Ho hum...another day another disappointment :(

[Pices]

Oh Liz,
I was hoping for better news. You know what they say, “Practice makes perfect.” I am disappointed though. I see your new post and my hopes are up, then I sigh with you my friend. I hope we get to celebrate next time. I can always find something to celebrate in the meantime time. Right? Hope your not too disappointed.
Patty

[LizStreithorst]

It's not the disappointment to me now that it was when it first started happening.

Funny thing is, I have a large spawn of Angels that should free swim today. I had quit breeding Angels since I had way too many and selling on AB is more of a chore than a pleasure. The breeding project with Angels that had been on my mind for a long time was to breed one of my half blacks to one of my Blue Silver pearlscales in the hopes of eventually establish a line of Blue Half Blacks and perhaps even Blue Half Black pearls. I had a pair in a breeding tank and watched week after week as they would spawn. Since I had no tea in the water the eggs would turn white and be eaten. As a test to see if the tea was no longer working I added it this time when I saw the pair getting in the mood. Sure enough, I have a huge spawn.

I'm back to wondering if the problem is that my existing Discus have low fertility. I know it's the case with one of my males, but he's the one I have have gotten a few wigglers from. I can see no reason why my young home bred male should have fertility problems. The other pair in the contest tank has a Chicago Discus male and the female is one of my existing fish. It seems unlikely that she would produce eggs that were not viable. It's a mystery to me.

I'm still hoping that the problem is with the hardness of my water but until we have rain there is no way that I can test that theory. Every day the weather says we will have a chance of thunderstorms, some severe. All I ever get is the wind, the thunder, and the lightening.

[Second Hand Pat]

Liz, what is your water like?
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

pH 7.2 after aging. kH 4.5. gH 0. I need batteries for my TDS meter but if I remember correctly it was around 100. Lots of people get spawns with numbers far worse than mine.

I haven't actually tested in ages because my water always tested the same and I never had problems with getting spawns with either RO or the tea until now. And now, it's just the Discus that I am having no luck with. My water comes from a deep aquifer so I don't see that it's likely it would change.

[Second Hand Pat]

pH 7.2 after aging. kH 4.5. gH 0. I need batteries for my TDS meter but if I remember correctly it was around 100. Lots of people get spawns with numbers far worse than mine.

I haven't actually tested in ages because my water always tested the same and I never had problems with getting spawns with either RO or the tea until now. And now, it's just the Discus that I am having no luck with. My water comes from a deep aquifer so I don't see that it's likely it would change.

Mine does too Liz but it does change seasonally. I would almost be tempted to add a wee bit of minerals to the water.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

I'm of the opinion that fish get their minerals from their food rather than the water. After all, we don't adsorb water from the air. I used Joe's mix for a while but I don't want to hunt up the ingredients and their ratios. I can try some RO Right if you think it might help. I'm willing to give anything a try.

[Second Hand Pat]

Liz, I am pretty sure tiny altum angel adsorb minerals in the water Liz. If I didn't add minerals their super long fins would break off at the tips. When I did add minerals their fins would grow normally.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

In that case I'll order some RO Right. Thanks for the info.

[LizStreithorst]

Number one pair is at it again. I won't give up as long as they keep trying.

[LizStreithorst]

The usual result. It was not unexpected. The minerals that Pat suggested came in Monday. It only raises gH which is what I want to to since my kH of 4.5 is fine. Then I realized that I didn't have a gH test kit. I have an API one on order but it has not yet arrived.

I honestly do not believe that my 0 gH is the problem because in the 17 years I've been breeding Discus it never has been. But I'm willing to try anything.

I'm thinking of doing some pair swapping among the fish in the contest tank.

[LizStreithorst]

The number one pair is at it again. I've seen the outcome too many times. It will be the same this time. I'm determined to cross my existing fish with my fish from Chicago Discus. I'll hang in the contest for now, but ATM I feel like I was born under a bad sign.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X72fXW5Cs3U

[Second Hand Pat]

Liz, have you tested your GH lately? Did your remin product arrive?
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

The rim stuff arrived but my gH test has not. I don't believe that the gH is a problem but I'll try it as soon as I get the test.

[Second Hand Pat]

The rim stuff arrived but my gH test has not. I don't believe that the gH is a problem but I'll try it as soon as I get the test.

:thumbsup:

But add a wee bit anyway....can't hurt right??
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Pat, I didn't add a wee bit because I don't know how concentrated it is and I had no way to check the gH. My test kit has still not arrived. It must have gotten lost in the netherworld. I just don't believe that the 0 gH is the problem but I'll order another dang test just to confirm my belief.

Yesterday afternoon I did a wife swap between the two pairs in the contest tank. None of them were happy with it. The male of my own breeding attacked his new lady. The female I introduced was one of the Ricky Lim fish. She's his aunt. The two Chicago Discus didn't do any attacking they just didn't connect. This afternoon, the male and female of both "pairs" are cozying up.

I hope to find out if the problem I'm having is due to my existing fish or the Chicago Discus fish. My money is that my problem is something with my existing fish.

[RogueDiscus]

The number one pair is at it again. I've seen the outcome too many times. It will be the same this time. I'm determined to cross my existing fish with my fish from Chicago Discus. I'll hang in the contest for now, but ATM I feel like I was born under a bad sign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X72fXW5Cs3U

Another great video Liz. Great how music can transcend a lot of the BS.

[RogueDiscus]

I haven't read every post, but I almost feel like it's time to put them all together in one tank for a while to work it out, maybe take a break.

[LizStreithorst]

I want to find out wherein the problem lies. If I toss them all together in one tank I won't find out. I want to understand more than I want success. When my water is good enough for another pair to be fertile while the and the others only produce non viable eggs.

I'd bet money that when the Chicago pair lay they will get wigglers and my other pair will not, but I don't know until I get wigglers see wigglers with my own eyes.

The whole thing is a mystery to me. I want to solve it. The answer is somewhere. I just need to find it.

[LizStreithorst]

Pat, I didn't add a wee bit because I don't know how concentrated it is and I had no way to check the gH. My test kit has still not arrived. It must have gotten lost in the netherworld. I just don't believe that the 0 gH is the problem but I'll order another dang test just to confirm my belief.

Yesterday afternoon I did a wife swap between the two pairs in the contest tank. None of them were happy with it. The male of my own breeding attacked his new lady. The female I introduced was one of the Ricky Lim fish. She's his aunt. The two Chicago Discus didn't do any attacking they just didn't connect. This afternoon, the male and female of both "pairs" are cozying up.

I hope to find out if the problem I'm having is due to my existing fish or the Chicago Discus fish. My money is that my problem is something with my existing fish.

I knew those two were becoming fond of one another. Yesterday evening they spawned for the first time. I'll try to snap a pic later today. Looking forward to a fast end to my mystery.

[LizStreithorst]

Another great video Liz. Great how music can transcend a lot of the BS.

Thank you, Steve. The only compliment my mother ever gave me was that I knew what was good.

Today is the end of the cotest. I saw obvious signs of hex in the contest tank the other day. I assume that my existing fish were the ones infected and they passed it to the Chicago Discus fish. Now I know what was wrong all this time. The fish are on day 3 of treatment. I haven't given up. It's just sad to have to end my thread on a blue note.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Liz, just checked and Al extended to contest to September 8th. Sorry your fish have hex. That really bites :(
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

The fish will be feeling better by then. Try talking him into extended it to the end of September. ;)

[Second Hand Pat]

The fish will be feeling better by then. Try talking him into extended it to the end of September. ;)

:thumbsup:

[Swedgin]

Thank you, Steve. The only compliment my mother ever gave me was that I knew what was good.

Today is the end of the cotest. I saw obvious signs of hex in the contest tank the other day. I assume that my existing fish were the ones infected and they passed it to the Chicago Discus fish. Now I know what was wrong all this time. The fish are on day 3 of treatment. I haven't given up. It's just sad to have to end my thread on a blue note.

That suck, Liz, sorry to hear. What’s your go to treatment for hex?


The fish will be feeling better by then. Try talking him into extended it to the end of September. ;)

I’m sure they will.

[LizStreithorst]

400 mgs. daily for at least 12 days with huge WC every day. I squeeze the sponges a couple of times, too. Out with the bad in with the good is the way I see it.

[danotaylor]

Sorry to hear your fish are sick Liz. Bummer. What med did you give 400mgs of? What symptoms did you notice? Cheers mate 🇦🇺

[LizStreithorst]

sorry...400 mg metro per 10 gallons

[Pices]

Sorry Liz,
At least the mystery is solved. If I ever go missing I’d like you on the case. Ha ha You are quite the detective!
Patty

[LizStreithorst]

I'm not as good as you think, Patty. I just don't give up until I find the answer. I'm convinced that when the Chicago Discus first got sick is that was hex, not an external thing as I had thought. The fish got dark but were still eating well. I saw no white poo but the discus were in tea colored water. If I had realized what was going on back then I could have fixed it back then rather than toward the end of the contest. I so wanted to see a happy ending to my breeding project by now.

[two utes]

I'm not as good as you think, Patty. I just don't give up until I find the answer. I'm convinced not that when the Chicago Discus first got sick is that was hex, not an external thing as I had thought. The fish got dark but were still eating well. I saw no white poo but the discus were in tea colored water. If I had realized what was going on back then I could have fixed it back then rather than toward the end of the contest. I so wanted to see a happy ending to my breeding project by now.

Glad that you're able to workout whats wrong Liz. I'm sure you'll have them sorted out in no time. l think that you have done very well keeping everyone up to date with your project....This is real life stuff. Yes sometimes you get lucky and things just fall into place, but i'm one who believes that you get what you work for, and you really have put in the hard yard here. Hang in there Liz...they'll do their thing for you eventually, and when they do it will mean a whole lot more.

Got luck with the rest of your project.

[LizStreithorst]

Why thank you Joe! Here I am feeling like a failure and you come along and make me feel better of myself. I have done my best to be honest about what's going on with the fish. It occurred to me to drop out of the contest but I made a commitment and I have followed through.

[Second Hand Pat]

Liz, I think you are doing an awesome job with your fish and I love your "the never give up" approach. That is the way we learn. Keep it up...you rock!! :D
Pat

[two utes]

Why thank you Joe! Here I am feeling like a failure and you come along and make me feel better of myself. I have done my best to be honest about what's going on with the fish. It occurred to me to drop out of the contest but I made a commitment and I have followed through.

Don't ever think that. All you can do is your best, and the rest will fall into place....I'm cheering for you.

[Disgirl]

Hang in there Liz. I only just now had time to read the last couple pages here. You know what takes most of my time these days, and it isn't fish. You will get all this taken care of I know. Good luck!
Barb

[LizStreithorst]

This project has been quite the ride, to say the least. It started wild and crazy, and went down hill fast. After treatment all the fish except my one existing RSG female are doing well. She is in a QT but I have quit the meds and am just doing large WCs on her. This is one of the Ricky Lim fish that I believed was compromised due to hormone treatment before I purchased her. That left me with 4 fish in the contest tank.

I decided the day before yesterday to remove the 2 males and 1 of the females from the contest tank to concentrate on the pair I thought was the best choice to give me the offspring I wanted. All 120 gallons are now devoted to the Spotted Snake Skin male of my own breeding (he's a cross between a RSG and a Blue Scorpion) and a Classic Leopard female from Chicago Discus.

I am seeing flirting. The bow, and twitch, and stare at the cone, but so far no action.

In the event that the contest ends before I get the chance to take and post more pics, hopefully with eggs on the cone I want to say that even though I have struggled, I have enjoyed the contest greatly. There were some wonderful stories by all the other entrants. I want to wish everyone luck and thank Al, Pat and all the mods for having the test. I hope that we do something similar soon.

The pics are of the Spotted Blue SS that I have posted here before, a decent pic of his girl friend, and a couple of them loving up to one of Barb's tall cones.

[Second Hand Pat]

Liz, after folks are summing up their experience in their threads we are closing the thread. Do you want me to leave it open for now?
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Once everyone summarizes go ahead and close it, Pat. Until then, if I have anything new to report I will post. If I don't have anything new before then, I'll start a thread of my own on the pair once the contest is closed.

[LizStreithorst]

OMG! This morning they were just considering getting down and dirty. I just went down to do WC and things have become serious. My big WC put them off a bit but I could see it by that their actions that they were almost ready. I'll take pics of eggs on the cone in the morning, or if I'm lucky catch them in the action before I hit the sack.

[LizStreithorst]

Dang fish lied to me this morning but this afternoon the female's tube is down. To be continued in another thread is she doesn't get the laying done before the end of the contest.

[LizStreithorst]

Eggs! I have eggs!!!! They spawned while I was at the doctor so I missed it. At least I get to end this thread on an optimistic note. Here are two poor quality pictures.

[LizStreithorst]

I did my normal thing except I didn't change their water or feed them because they are 2 fish in a 120 wide and they won't want to eat because they're obsessed with their eggs. I pulled the cone and dribbled meth blue over them then put a guard over the cone.

If Pat doesn't close this contest soon, like she should, I'll post an update tomorrow.

[two utes]

That's great news Liz.

[fljones3]

Exciting. Hoping they live.

[Swedgin]

Eggs! I have eggs!!!! They spawned while I was at the doctor so I missed it. At least I get to end this thread on an optimistic note. Here are two poor quality pictures.

Nice way to end the thread like that. Hope it works out this time..

[Pices]

I hope you get the babies you’ve been waiting for. I’ve really enjoyed your thread. I laughed out loud at times and also felt your excitement, frustration and disappointment. I hope you’ll keep us posted on this beautiful pair. Im glad you get to end on a high note.
Patty

[Second Hand Pat]

Hoping for wigglers Liz :D
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

I hate to be forced to end this thread on a bad note but the same thing happened that has been happening. No wigglers. Just fungused eggs. At least I have the fry from the pair I removed from the contest tank because the female was terrorizing everyone. They are growing well and doing great.